Love, Necessity and Pride

[jbcurt00]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Bear: Do you really want to h@@kup w/ sticky fingers J@nny? PLEASE don't answer, we really don't want to know.

But if yes, whatever floats your particularly peculiar boat:facepalm:, and buy, make or use all the PB you want. I'm pretty sure there's a Chris Rock routine about that...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

I'm a fan of PL for bedding stringers. I like the flex it has once fully cured. I am not a fan of it for laminating the wood. You may not be aware but... Titebond III Carpenters wood glue is 100% waterproof.
http://www.titebond.com/titebond_wood_glues/Ultimate_Wood_Glue.aspx

I will use it in the future for all my wood laminations in boats. IMHO the only way to adhere the transom to the hull of the boat is to drill several holes in the wood transom to allow air to escape and the PB to ooze into the holes as you clamp it down. Two 1/4" layers, one on the hull and one on the transom, gives plenty of PB to ensure proper adhesion and enuf squeeze out for filleting around the edges.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Couple of things that concern me... may or may not be relevant, but here they are...
The product descriptions below say...
Moisture resistant=Yes, and I understand that it will be sealed against moisture by the act of fiberglassing it, but am I 100% certain that if any moisture gets into it it won't be affected, after all the time and effort that I am putting into this project?

This will be living below the waterline...

Recommended surfaces=Brick, NO...Concrete, NO...Drywall, NO..., Metal, NO..., Hardwood Floors, Sort of, but not really...
And the only one that actually recommends being used with hardwood floors is the PL Premium at $7.00 per tube, x 10 each + 20.00 for the caulking gun[28 oz. size]+ 7.5% Tax= $96.75, give or take...

I don't know it's a tough call...still debating, prolly will be for a couple more days...any further input, pro or con will be most appreciated...

I need another beer...


Product Comparison

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	Remove Product Model 1390599 $58.68/CA-Case Ships FREE with $45.00 Order 28 fl oz. PL375 VOC Heavy Duty Construction Adhesive (12-Pack) Add To Cart ONLINE EXCLUSIVE	Remove Product Model 1390597 $58.10/CA-Case PL 400 28 oz. Subfloor and Deck Construction Adhesive STORE EXCLUSIV	Remove Product Model 1390594 $6.99/EA-Each PL Premium 28 oz. Polyurethane Construction Adhesive STORE EXCLUSIVE	Remove Product Model 1390596 $58.99/CA-Case Ships FREE with $45.00 Order PL 400 28 fl. oz. Subfloor and Deck Construction Adhesive (12-Pack) Add To Cart Check Your Local Store
Brand Name	Loctite	Loctite	Loctite	Loctite
Manufacturer	Henkel	Henkel Corporation	Henkel Corporation	Henkel
Indoor/Outdoor	Indoor/Outdoor	Indoor/Outdoor	Indoor/Outdoor	Indoor/Outdoor
Adhesion level	High	High	High	High
Adhesive Product Type	Construction Adhesive	Construction Adhesive	Construction Adhesive	Construction Adhesive
Baby UPC		079340686625		079340686649
Construction adhesive type	General purpose	Drywall or subfloor	General purpose	Drywall or subfloor
Curing time (hours)	48	48	24	48
Dries clear	No	No	No	No
Drillable	No	Yes	Yes	No
Item Package Type		Cardboard Container	Cardboard Container	Cardboard Container
Manufacturer Warranty	N/A	None	None	None
Moisture Resistant	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
Product Depth (in.)	10.563	10.75	2.625	10.5
Product Height (in.)	16.563	16.75	16.25	16.75
Product Width (in.)	8.125 in	8	2.625 in	8 in
Recommended surfaces	Brick,Concrete,Drywall,Metal	Drywall	Brick,Concrete,Hardwood floors,Drywall,Metal	Brick,Concrete,Drywall,Metal
Returnable	90-Day			90-Day
Sandable	No	Yes	No	No
Sell Pack (Baby)		12		12
Solvent resistant	No	No	No	No
UV/sunlight resistant	No	No	No	No
Assembled Depth (in.)	10.563 in	8 in	2.625 in	10.5 in
Assembled Height (in.)	16.563 in	16.75 in	16.25 in	16.75 in
Assembled Width (in.)	8.125 in	10.75 in	2.625 in	8 in

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Thanks wood, that is another possibilty...how much do you figure it would take for about 36 square feet, which is about what my transom plates and stringer blanks are going to be?...

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

A quart of Titebond will be plenty for your transom lamination. You get plenty of work time & ease of moving the pieces to align. Screw it together with plenty of screws and then remove the screws and drill out the holes for your air relief holes that will be filled with PB when you install. Just my personal observation but you seem to be getting a bit of "Paralysis by Analysis" Don't OVERTHINK this!!! It is not Brain Surgery. Go with the accepted best practices posted here on the forum, and then "Git er Dun!!!!!" Again JMHO!!!

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

A quart of Titebond will be plenty for your transom lamination. You get plenty of work time & ease of moving the pieces to align. Screw it together with plenty of screws and then remove the screws and drill out the holes for your air relief holes that will be filled with PB when you install. Just my personal observation but you seem to be getting a bit of "Paralysis by Analysis" Don't OVERTHINK this!!! It is not Brain Surgery. Go with the accepted best practices posted here on the forum, and then "Git er Dun!!!!!" Again JMHO!!!

Yeah, "Paralysis by Analysis"...too true...
Just double checkin...you mentioned a quart of Titebond...

The transom is only about 4 square feet...

The otheer 32 squares is the stringer lams...

Still just a quart???

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

I share your dilemma, GT. I thought I had my plan figured out until WOG threw TB-III into the mix. I have that already, it was the glue used for the joints & glass work on my plywood canoe/kayak. For about the price of a 2 large 'regular' bottles, a gallon is $30 @HD here. it's great stuff, super to work with, easy clean-up until dry, and loves fiberglass. It does need to be applied to both surfaces & let to skim over for a few minutes.

From the Loctite website tech data sheets @ PL 400:
Features:
Waterproof and Weather Resistant???????..?
Cold weather gunnable?????????????..
Meets and exceeds APA AFG-01 specs?????..
Bonds to most building materials?????????
Gap filling????????.??????????
High Grab??????????????????
Benefits:
Great for indoor or outdoor projects
Eliminates ?roll-up? on frozen lumber
Can be applied directly to dry, wet or frozen lumber
Provides a strong, durable bond to multiple surfaces
Will bridge minor gaps when bonding irregular
surfaces; Reduces squeaking and splitting
Reduces the use of fasteners

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/techdata-msds.shtml

I will be pre-sealing my ply w/ just resin, then the downside w/ CSM before install. Edges will all get resin pre-install. PL glue to attach the deck, & probably use a few screws & some weight to hold it down. After deck is down & tabbed, I'll install the transom (same order as Glastron originally).

Doubt it ^^ helps, but data is better then HD's

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

OK, its amazing what a couple of beers, a nice hot shower, and some good advice from you guys will do for a mans soul...

I have come to the following conclusions...

Titebond III is an ideal choice for laminating my transom plates and stringer blanks together...plus whatever is left over from the gallon I am going to purchase will work for many of my future woodworking projects...

PL400 or PL Premium is a good choice for bedding the stringers... It is not something I have to buy just yet and the price is right [kinda like the game show] and it gives me plenty of working time to get everything in place and properly clamped/supported... I can buy what I need as I need it and have little or no waste...I also like the fact that it is somewhat pliable, which should work out just right for bedding the stringers...

PB will be reserved for attaching the transom to the hull and filleting...

Home Depot...Look out, here I come...tomorrow that is...

Thanks wood and jb for your insight and input...

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

All thanks should go to WOG, but thanks just the same
I read ALOT & remember some of it well enough to

some of it back.

Oh and in no particular order: Friscoboater, Oops, ondarvr, Jasoutside, Ezmobee, Pmccraney, Archbuilder, Andgott, Azlo, Micks110, et al <---- they solved the riddles, I just help find & repeat those solutions

All that up there in your plan sounds GREAT! I think PL 400 specs better then the Premium @ loctite's site. But hit that link I posted & download the tech pdf's.

 

[craigweaver]

Gt1m, TGIF bro. I agree with Wood, I used to use tightbond for construction.and that stuff is wicked good. I had completely forgot about that as an option until reading this tonight. I too will be using that method for laminating my stringers and transom.

 

[Decker83]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

GT,
Sounds like you have a plan now. I have used the TB III working with wood and it is a very strong glue. If you glue 2 pieces of wood together and get a good bond and try to seperate the glue joint it will pull the wood apart.

If you use the PL on the stringers to bed them, I wouldn't worry to much about which one I used. The bed is only to keep the stringer from touching the hull and creating a hard spot. Once the stringers are glassed that is where all the strenght comes into play.

When I cut my stringers out there was no bedding. They took csm and made 1/4" circles and added the resin. Let it setup and just put the stringers on them and glassed them in.
I have seen where the pink foam insulation was cut down to 1/4" and used as a bed.

Lots of ways to do it. I just didn't like useing all the PL. Make sure when you start to put the stringers in you have a clamping system in place to hold them in place. The PL will not setup very fast at all and will let them move around. If they do move after you have glued them you will have a big mess on your hands.

I also cut some 1/4" dowel rod into 3" peices and placed them under the stringers to hold them up.

 

[Monterey Dreams]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

GT;
At Least woody was nice about it “Paralysis by Analysis”. When I was learning to drive truck, I had a very hard time learning to back the darned thing. My old teacher told me I was suffering from “Rectal Inversion” and that if I “removed my head from my A@#”! I would back a whole lot better. :facepalm: Sigh…. I can’t tell you how many times I heard that gravelly voice in my head telling I was suffering from Rectal inversion again…..sigh…the good old days. LOL
Dave

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

No worries. I'm still trying to perfect the reverse, S-curve maneuver it takes to back my boat into the driveway. I'm getting better, really I am. I've only put two dents in my tailgate and broken one handle off my trailer jack this season :facepalm: . I'm ok at the boat ramp, but I' still workin' on the driveway...... Maybe one day I'll be really cool and be able to back the trailer up using only the rear view mirror instead of having to turn around like an amateur too

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

By Kfa4303... I'm still trying to perfect the reverse, S-curve maneuver it takes to back my boat into the driveway.

As long as you don't end up like the attachment below...

By Monterey dreams...My old teacher told me I was suffering from ?Rectal Inversion?

Now I don't care who you are, that there is FUUUUUUNEEE!


Forward progress...

Rough cut a bunch of plywood blanks...A- 2 pc. Transom, B- 1 pc. Bilge Drain Backer, C- 2 pc. Aft Keel Bottom Plates,
D- 1 pc. Transom Cross Brace, E- 5 pc. Stringer Blanks...

Pre-fit 2 Transom pieces...

Built my "woodonglass" wood clamps...

Laminated Transom with Titebond III...


While clamping the transom plates, they shifted about 1/4" from my witness marks, but hopefully I left enough wiggle room for some final fitting...:facepalm:

Now I am just pacing around, like an expectant Father, waiting for the glue to dry...
I don't think I have looked forward to it being Monday already, EVER!


Dry fit with my new clamps...

GLOOOOD UP!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Aahh, yeah, always boat motor end FIRST down the boat ramp!?!?! ^^^ That would certainly put a damper on a 'day of fun, sun & fishing!'

Nice looking workshop ya got there GT1M, no wonder yer budget is slim for the rebuild, ya pimped out the 'big blue elephant'....... Drywall, paint, doors, windows, trim, a fireplace, 16" tile floor (radiant heat would totally rock that floor) & a mirror! I envy the work space, if only temporary!

Clamps & transom glue up look good! TB III is the same as most, well clamped but not to much pressure. Looking good, glad you got a start on the put back. Has your neighbor made it back for a low cost resin hookup?

Have a great week.

 

[GT1000000]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Nice looking workshop ya got there GT1M, no wonder yer budget is slim for the rebuild, ya pimped out the 'big blue elephant'....... Drywall, paint, doors, windows, trim, a fireplace, 16" tile floor (radiant heat would totally rock that floor) & a mirror! I envy the work space, if only temporary!

Darn it the secret's out...:facepalm:

 

[Trooper82]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Looking good GT. I am almost caught up with you...er well not really, I have all my grinding to do yet.

This is the secod time today I have seen reference to the "blue elephant", Love it! (In other threads)

Keep us posted.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Add a bark-a-lounger, cable/dish/satellite tv & a frig, you won't ever have to leave the blue dome of doom til mid-May! You'll make ton's of headway!

 

[sphelps]

Re: Love, Necessity and Pride

Whoooosh! Just read whole thread GT I,m with jbc thats an awful nice work space you got there! Time to get your neighbor in gear and go to it! I think I know more about glue now than I,ll ever need..
You will be cruzzen in the Bassassin before you know it!
see ya S.P.

 

[craigweaver]

Nice progress GT. that big blue elephant is lookin pretty cozy these days. Maybe some of our cold weather will blow your way so it's not so hot to work in