Liberals against Christianity???

[Boomyal]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Originally posted by ErikDC:<br /> I learned my lesson the hard way, why shouldn't they?

Because, Erik, it does not fit the current liberal mode to make as many people possible sniveling victims that are beholding to the Democratic party for their paltry crums at yours and my expense.<br /><br />Kudos to you for your 'elevated' status in life.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Well Eric, I can think of a few reasons.By the way how did you like that nasty liberal rehabilitation stuff they made you go through in jail? It seems like it worked a bit.<br />Most of us are not not thieving lying scumbags,come to think of it,did you say you are a republican?

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

rolmops,<br /><br />What liberal program are you referring to that encourages religion, private support of charity, and personal responsibility? The most common liberal treatment has to do with love and a big guy named bubba. Learn to embrace that which is unnatural. <br /><br />Of course if Eric was a Kennedy jail just wouldn't have been an option, regardless of the crime. Pack up the oldsmobile and off the to florida compound.<br /><br />Since you can think of a few reasons, care to share them?

 

[rolmops]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Pointer,can you please explain to us why Spiro Agnew,the republican vice president of Nixon,who was caught for tax evasion,while in office, never made it to jail?We know why Nixon did not do time,for ordering the secret service to break and enter into Watergate.He was pardoned by his republican buddie,Jerrie Ford.What about the stone walling of the elder Bushes involvement in the Irangate contra scandal?? So please stop harping about Kennedy because your hands are not clean!<br />As for liberal programs in prisons,they have nothing to do with the things you just mentioned they have to do with job training and social skills development as eric can probably attest to unless he did time in a deep southern prison

 

[rolmops]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Pointer,can you please explain to us why Spiro Agnew,the republican vice president of Nixon,who was caught for tax evasion,while in office, never made it to jail?We know why Nixon did not do time,for ordering the secret service to break and enter into Watergate.He was pardoned by his republican buddie,Jerrie Ford.What about the stone walling of the elder Bushes involvement in the Irangate contra scandal?? So please stop harping about Kennedy because your hands are not clean!<br />As for liberal programs in prisons,they have nothing to do with the things you just mentioned they have to do with job training and social skills development as eric can probably attest to unless he did time in a deep southern prison

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

These are easy ones. One Nixon didn't order the break in. He just lied and tried to cover it up. There is no proof he ever ordered the break in.<br /><br />First ol' Spiro pleaded no contest. Basically he pleaded guilty, paid a 10K fine, 3 years probation, and was disbarred. A consistant sentence at that time. <br /><br />Kennedy got drunk, drove his oldsmobile into a river killing his "date" (ha ha). How many hours did it take for him to call the cops? But he never tampered with the crime scene. Who would you think committed the greater crime. Death or dollars?<br /><br />BTW, my taxes are paid, and my hands are clean. <br /><br />Those liberal prison programs work so well recitivism rates are close to 70%. I suppose that would be a passing grade in a public school these days. Maybe even deans list. 30% success assuming you can attibute liberal feel good programs to 100% of the sucessfully rehabilitated. Which you can't.

 

[PW2]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

You folks are all delusional.<br /><br />First off, I personally don't care what moral compass every one takes. We are a nation of laws. You obey the law, and I'll take my chances with your moral compass, whatever it may be.<br /><br />And as far as religious symbols in public places--hey, if I thought just a few "Ten Commandments" displays would satisfy everyone, and they'd say "That's all we want" -- but that's not what they want. The founding fathers wisely predicted the dangers of a dominant religion, and tried to guard against it, while at the same time still honoring a person's right to practice their religion as they choose--a bunch of smart guys.<br /><br />And I've personally experienced the effects of religion run amok in public schools, and it is not a pretty picture--I've had my daughter discriminated against because she did not belong to the proper "voluntary" prayer group favored by the principal at the time--I managed to succesfully fight it and get him ultimately reassigned, but it wasted a lot of my time that could have been better spent. I could go on and on, but the reality is we are a nation of laws, and that ought to be good enough for government's role.<br /><br />You, and I ought to be able to choose any religion we want, as long as we obey the law.

 

[ErikDC]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Rolmops, I never said that all Democrats are scumbags, in fact I believe the exact opposite. I have many close friends that are Dems and we're intelligent and mature enough to not let politics get in the way of our friendship. It's just the few far left folks that get my goat and they always seem to be the most prominent ones out there. BTW, I didn't go through any rehab programs, I took my punishment like a man and dealt with it. <br /><br />Thanks Boom, I normally never discuss that part of my past but I thought it would help my point a bit. Not sure if it did or didn't.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Ralph, I am hearing what you are saying, and agree that religion has been intertwined with the development of this nation. It just seems like there is a significant difference between the events you have described and the current state of mind in our nation (and I am willing to be wrong). I also feel that this whole issue is not an easy one, and sometimes I too am conflicted in my feelings. I am getting older, and see things differently as each year goes by. <br /><br />I used to really be anti-God, anti religion. Now, I accept the concept of God even if I am not 100% convinced of his existance. My issues with religion are more focused on the way it has been misused and distorted. If mankind didn't use it to rule the masses (and it does, its all about controlling the many with fear) I would look at it differently.<br /><br />Jtexas, according to the rules of your religion, I have nothing to worry about at all. I live a good, moral life and I am dedicating my life to helping others (law enforcement). I think God would cut me a break for having doubts if he is going to grant never ending bliss to the hypocrytes that church it up every sunday.<br /><br />As to the statement that morality cannot exist without religion, that is plain bollocks. That very statement says that someone like me is incapable of morality because I do not church it up every sunday. That is just another attempt to attain superiority over others through the use of religion. Again, quit trying to be better than thow and just live your belief system, thats all that is asked. I don't want to take anything away from the believers, I feel it would be horrible to have lived a life believing one thing and feel as if that life is wasted. I just want the believers to understand their way is not the only way, and to just accpet others beliefs without telling them they will go to hell. <br /><br />Guess what believers, none of anything is up to you anyway, its up to God. I am betting he would be harder on you for projecting such pious attitudes than me for having doubts about his existance...Sitting in a church and reading the good book entitles no one to being able to judge or predict the lives and outcomes of others. It is that arrogance that is so troubling to those us us who are in doubt, and what helps to keep us away from what you believe in. You want me to join the fold, practice what you preach and get off of your self imposed pulpit, because in the eyes of God you are just another man, no less accountable for your mistakes than I am. Pride, thats one of those sin thingys isn't it?....

 

[QC]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Originally posted by JasonJ:<br /> My issues with religion are more focused on the way it has been misused and distorted. If mankind didn't use it to rule the masses (and it does, its all about controlling the many with fear) I would look at it differently.

There are evil acts committed in the name of religion every day. That in no way condemns religion, it only proves there are evil people.<br /><br />

Originally posted by JasonJ:<br /> As to the statement that morality cannot exist without religion, that is plain bollocks. That very statement says that someone like me is incapable of morality because I do not church it up every sunday. That is just another attempt to attain superiority over others through the use of religion. Again, quit trying to be better than thow and just live your belief system, thats all that is asked.

Please reread my post as I believe it was I who got your hackles up. I never condemned you or questioned your morality. In fact I can see by your writings that you are a decent and thoughtful man. I never came close to saying that you weren't capable of moral behavior and I didn't shove anybody's religion down anyone's throat. I simply pointed out that the ROOT of all morality is religion.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

This slant to the thread was begun with the comment, Liberals would like to see all Christians Dead. Can we agree that this is not correct.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

I think the statement "Liberals would like to see all Christians Dead" is rather extreme. To be honest, it sounds like the whinings of somebody not getting their own way.<br /><br />I'm not liberal, but I share many liberal views. To me, in fact, they aren't even liberal views, but rather ultra-conservative views. But on the surface, they're all the same.<br /><br />To say that Liberals want to see Christians (or Christianity) dead is just as absurd as saying that all Christians are pushing for a Church State, and are looking to eradicate the world of anybody different than themselves.<br /><br />txswinner, I will agree with you that Christianity is under attack, but the goal is not to erradicate it completely. The goal is simply to remove it from politics.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Driving every vestige of Christianity from the public arena is but a first step in driving it underground. Driving it underground is but another step to eliminate any influence from those who are believers.<br /><br />You don't think that a political faction who has to constantly camouflage, lie and prevaricate, in an attempt to regain power, is not capable of using those same tactics to rid the society, that they wish to rule, of all influences from an competing source of power and authority in the citizens lives?<br /><br />You better read your history books!<br /><br />Today's 'fear' of Christianity, which has coexisted in this society since the beginning, is irrational and is being hyped all out of proportion to any direct inconvenience to non believers. <br /><br />What else then, besides all their platitudes, could be their motives?

 

[txswinner]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Must of gotten ice on it on the way up north. Separation of Church and State are not the same as removing it from the public arena and driving it underground.<br /><br />My opposition is to the remark that liberals want Christians or Christianity Dead in the USA. I find this a totally irrational remark without basis.

 

[jtexas]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br /> You don't think that a political faction who has to constantly camouflage, lie and prevaricate, in an attempt to regain power, is not capable of using those same tactics to rid the society, that they wish to rule, of all influences from an competing source of power and authority in the citizens lives?<br />

you are referring, of course, to whichever faction is not in power at the moment. The faction in the US that would rid the country of Christianity is an immeasurably small fraction of any political party. Next time you're in church (you do go to church, don't you?) look around, half the people you see are democrats, but don't be afraid, they mean you no harm.

 

[DJ]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

[QUOTEI think the statement "Liberals would like to see all Christians Dead" is rather extreme. To be honest, it sounds like the whinings of somebody not getting their own way.<br /><br />I'm not liberal, but I share many liberal views. To me, in fact, they aren't ] [/quote] <br /><br />That was me, not whining, just stating facts, as I see them. The best part is, I know it's coming, from you. You do not-yet. You'll know when you supported the deeds. It is written.<br /><br />That's what I believe, PROVE me wrong.<br /><br />Yes, we are being driven underground. No doubt. That movement will always be with us. That is written also.<br /><br />As a Christian, I would like everyone to realize their opportunity and come over.<br /><br />As a realist, I know-that ain't happening.<br /><br />For those that do not, I accept your social banishment and coming punishment. Again, that is written.<br /><br />I tried.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

DJ, spare me the prophecy and sermon. Removing commandments from a courthouse does not mean "the end is nigh".<br /><br />The world is changing, get used to it. For years, Christianity has permeated every aspect of our lives. It is written in our historical documents, it's writings are on our public buildings. But we, as a nation, are no longer strictly Christian.<br /><br />Our founding fathers believed, wholeheartedly, that a person is free to choose his/her own beliefs. They believed it so strongly that they wrote it into our Constitution. And we, as a nation, have decided to take the spirit of that clause, that religious freedom, and extend it even further. Not only shall "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", but also that our government shall not support or promote one religion over another, whether by official law or otherwise.<br /><br />I don't know about you, but I don't want fundamental beliefs of the Islamic faith carved into our Capitol Buildings, nor it's teachings indoctrinated into our governing laws.<br /><br />However, I'd be an awful hypocrite if I said somebody else's religion is completely unacceptable to include in governing law, but mine is just fine.<br /><br />No, the only solution is NO religion in governing law, because those laws apply to ALL people, even those of different faith.

 

[CJY]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Nice post Wilkin

 

[QC]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

I understand where Wilkins is coming from too. It is the logical assessment of the Church/State thing, but . . . <br /><br />There is a difference between adopting a state religion and prefering not to rewrite our history. An example happened here in CA. The County (might have been the City) of LA seal included a tiny depiction of a Mission with a cross on it. This is the history of California. The Spaniards were here with their Catholic Missions and they did all kinds of terrible things to the locals on the way to establishing Catholicism from here to Punta Arenas. However, the cross on the mission offended somebody (not sure who) so we will sweep that chapter of history under the rug. Ridiculous. I assume we should remove the Pyramid from the one dollar bill. There are some people who are pretty PO'd at Pharoah whoever or so . . . Where does it end?<br /><br />BTW, my signature has absolutely nothing to do with religion. I just thought it was appropriate when I first saw all of the confusion about prop selection etc. over on the boat forums. I consider myself a Christian although I rarely attend church. I also believe in some form of Intelligent Design. The idea of something apearing from absolutely nothing, without some help, is something that none of us can explain. The faith that something just poofed from literally nothing and nowhere is IMHO less rational than believing it was created . . .

 

[ErikDC]

Re: Liberals against Christianity???

Forgive me if this question has been asked before but what part of the Ten Commandments does anyone here disagree with?