JB-Inflamatory Topics

crab bait · Nov 28, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

happy thanksgivin' an to all a good day..

SpinnerBait_Nut · Nov 28, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

P.S. I will still give my .02 worth on something I see that I might be able to help with.

SS MAYFLOAT · Nov 28, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

Vinney, you seem to know what your profession is and you do it well. I just have one problem with you getting defensive on some of the topics. I don't come back at you and say your wrong, because it does no good to argue over issues that can have more than one solution. Everyone has to start somewhere in their career. If nobody was willing to let the rookie take care of their needs, we would only have well experienced people doing their jobs. After you have done a job so many times, it becomes routine, the excitment is gone, and then the mistakes start. Like thinking a 6.2 was a BB? But we all can make mistakes when out mind is spread out to thin. You apolgized and that was cool of you. You somewhat slammed Flashback for his comment on the static water line. In his mind he was trying to say that there can be other causes and the other areas should be considered. Negative criticism on this board can hurt big time. I don't wish to run anyone off or even be run off myself. Like I said before Vinney, you are an asset to this board, most of us respect your knowledge, but we don't want to be cut down for our thoughts when you think we are completely wrong. As far a doctors, I would be more inclined to go to the person that has just got the training with excellent grades. The knowledge will be fresh in his mind where the old timer will be set in his ways and not want to try new things. People are inclined not to try new stuff and that is a fact. You keep mentioning about owning your own business and being successful at it. Well good for you and we respect that. It is the way that you put it that nobody that owns there own business does not get your respect. At least that is the way I understand you. We are all human and we make mistakes, Those mistakes is what gives us repairman work.

Beaux · Nov 28, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

vinny- welcome to "nothing to do about boats"....see you are changing- I bet you thought this topic was for morons when you first became a member. (now you are part of it) It has its "usefulness". Anyone with the intelligence you claim to possess should not view life in such black and white terminology. Your comments about the medical profession show your complete ignorance concerning those issues. I am glad you were "fixed" by the oldest doctor, etc. But guess what- I do have knowledge/training in that area, and I trust my care to a few of my colleagues based on their abilities, not their age, not where they went to school/and by no means do I go to the guy who charges the most thinking he must be the best!!! I have met some REALLY dumb mechanics in my life- lots of work experience (whole life just like you) but incredibly stupid. Now, maybe that is just the reason that most of us are on this board....why pay some Jack*$ money when we can do it ourselves AND enjoy fixing something. And when I can't fix it...I then take it to a GOOD mechanic. Its not about money- I am a professional as well and can afford to pay even your billing rate with no burdens...And to insinuate that people on this board take what is suggested w/o consideration of not only whether it is sounds logical/can it be done at home/what the manual suggests/ and compare that to what the other posters are suggesting, is a little presumptuous. You talk on and on about how books don't teach anything, etc. I know I have read posts from you in what I like to call the harsh language of "Vinnymanese" that seemed to say something like "learnup boy, ive red everie book i can git my hans on..I'm an engineer and a mechanic " yada yada......so which is it? Can books help people learn...You didnt use books to become an engineer??? The advice of your peers didn't help you solve problems? We doctors call each other on the phone all the time (young to old/ old to young) to get different opinions on how to treat a unique/difficult case. We even have monthly meetings to discuss really difficult cases and present them to our colleagues for everyone to learn and be exposed to the case. HMMMM, sounds like a good way to improve knowledge and gain a better grasp on the problems we face. We don?t sit around and criticize each other because of a stupid suggestion or diagnosis....if we did then nobody would talk at all. We and our patients would be the worse for it. Kind of reminds me of how Iboats works w/o all the critical remarks. So don?t try and defend your arrogant attitude by comparing yourself to my profession (simply b/c you are older and have some knowledge) as you obviously wouldn't make a well respected colleague -NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU THINK YOU KNOW!!! I want you in the forum and I want to stay as well, just save the I AM GOD attitude for when someone actually challenges your opinion on here....I haven't read a single post where someone told you that your mechanical ideas were wrong yet. I happen to think you have raised the knowledge concerning I/O water ingestion and its causes. I read those posts b/c I want to learn as much as possible....I don't even like I/O boats and don't plan to own one. But I still don't want to read you or anyone else blast someone for making a suggestion that obviously seemed valid to them at the time. You can simply type your response TO THE QUESTION and if your idea seems more logical NOONE will have trouble figuring out which information to follow. For that matter, you have made some pretty LARGE assumptions on those postings w/o even seeing the boat . I think you will agree that most of the problem could be from several causes. Or are you the motor ?doctor? that can diagnose the cause from some often VERY VAQUE information. Yet you blast away....

Beaux · Nov 28, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

djohns- (take cover) GRENADE!!!!!!! 10..9...8..7..6..5..4...3..2...1......

Scoop · Nov 28, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

Vinney, I can see that you are very passionate about helping people. I really appreciate the input and I am sure everyone else does too. I understand where you are coming from when it comes to bad advie. I have seen some and helped clear it up with the correct information that I know is right from people I know have the correct knowledge. I have also given some not so good advice which I have seen other people correct. I felt bad making an assumption that was wrong. This board is free. Anyone that gets advice here has to understand that and weigh the advice accordingly. Even the expert boards I go to have people with differences of opinion. I appreciate you trying to get your advice out, but people cannot make someone listen to them or respect them by flaming other people. I run a computer service and consulting department. I have interviewed, worked with, worked for, supervised at least 250 different techs and engineers over the course of twelve years. These are people just like you and I. There are good ones and bad ones and I can say longevity is not the key. I know a tech I would put up against anyone and he is 23 and has not been in the business that long. When I hire a tech I look for people that can see the big picture, have good technical ability, but also have good customer service skills. Part of those skills are being able to communicate at the right level with people without getting upset, calling them any names, and being a nice person. If I had my choice between a person with limited tech skills and a good personality or the revers, I would take the personality first. I can train the tech portion as long as they have minimal aptitude. They will get respect from the client first and will get the problem fixed. Respect is earned not forced. I do not want to see anyone leave this forum, but I do want to see people respect other people. Disagreement is fine. I do appreciate all the professional mechanics here and the advanced hobbists that help me. I can say that by reading a lot of the posts in this forum, I have learned a lot this last 6 months. I can also say, I know who has the best knowledge and I know who I respect and will listen to without doubt. In the computer field I have run into too many professional engineers that think they are the best in the field, will tell you so, that don't know anything and I would not let them touch my keyboard let alone my network. I think the same thing goes here. We are all here trying our best to help people for free. Sometimes with motors that no professional mechanic in their area will even look at. I would hate to see that go away. Thanks you iBoats for doing the boating public such a favor. I hope you all see the thank you posts from the people that got the right help for free. I would suggest that anyone with doubts about the advice they got here, go to a professional mechanic and get help. Just buyer beware. Here at least people are not motivated by the almighty buck.

Fishbusters · Nov 28, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

If I could afford to take it to the mechanic i would but since I am not one of those type A guys that run my own buisness I can't afford to. In truth I want the guy with the best knowledge answering my questions when I have one but I also don't want an arguement or technical jargon I want an answer I can usderstand and a suggestion I can follow and implement. What I saw when I checked out the posts in question was a lot of stuff that if I had asked the original question would have made me move on long ago.

JB · Nov 29, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

I respect the various opinions that have been posted here. I have stated the bases on which you can expect a thread to be closed or a post deleted. I want knowledgable members to help other members, not insult or deride them. That includes Capt. Ken and Vinney, as well as many, many others. If a post is more about what a jerk a previous poster is than the question. . . delete. If a thread becomes, or threatens to become about what jerks people who disagree with the poster are. . . close or delete. Disagree with advice, disagree with a way of doing something.LEAVE THE MEMBERS ALONE!! That has to include me, I am a member. If I have to delete half the posts and close half of the threads to get this across, I will Any more questions?

gonfishn · Nov 29, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

A few months ago if you remember my post I Had a Heart Cath performed(Pretty serious Procedure) by one of the best Cardiologist Around. Matter of fact he was so good he was able to talk to his bud at the same time and plan his play time. I'll go to a horse doctor the next time. At least I will have his undivided attention. Education doesn't make you good,but OJT with that makes you more skilled at what you do. Engines or Heart its all the same when giving advice. Each problem is different and we learn as we go. Bad advice in the engine department could cost you some bucks but in my case he could have killed me. I say to Vinny do what you do best but don't knock the medical field you may need us some day....There are good mechanics and there are ones who are so,so as its also in the Medical field...

bvassel3 · Nov 29, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

Hello All. Hope you had a great Thanksgiving!!! For your collective information, we support JB in what he just said (listed just above in this thread). Please, let's not stoop to name calling and personal attacks on any people. That is NOT what we planned as we spent a lot of time and money building iboats.com and offering these forums to the boating world for free. We want these forums and all of the input thousands of really nice people place on them to be helpful to everyone. Name calling is never helpful. If someone expresses an opinion with which you disagree, please feel free to clarify all you want to, or even object to the information presented, for the good of others who will be looking for good, helpful boating-mostly information. But please don't attack people. Attacking people is never helpful and we will not permit it on our forums. We will just delete any such attacks. Frankly, one of the REAL benefits to these forums has been our NOT sticking our finger into the pie very much! Collectively, all of you certainly know a lot more about boating-related matters than we do, so we'd rather learn from you along with everyone else rather than just share our limited perspectives. The combined amount of good, tested knowledge on these forums is wonderfully helpful for all of us!!! And frankly while I'm at it, we have also tried hard NOT to push our products and services on our forum visitors, even though we are trying to make this business work so that we can keep these forums, and the rest of iboats.com, up and running and continually getting even better, for years to come! FYI...we are succeeding with our online business, which means these forums will be here for a LONG time to come...with all of your great help! To summarize for everyone who may come to these forums, please enjoy, use often, and liberally contribute to these forums. Please attack/challenge information that is incorrect by providing clear, helpful and insightful content and specific input (data)...especially from your own wealth of knowledge and experiences. We all love the read the stories that bring boating to life! But please do not attack people. At this season of the year especially, let's all take a deep breath and be just a little kinder and more charitable toward everyone else...regardless of who they are, what they believe, or where they live...especially all the wonderful people who visit and use these boards. God bless you all. And yes...God bless this wonderful nation, and all those nations who support the goals and truths of our founding fathers, and for which truths, values and freedoms so many great men and women from many lands have given their lives. Again, thank you all for the great good that you have and are doing on these boards for the vast boating world. Happy Holidays to everyone, and especially to all you wonderful forum members and friends!!!!!!!

bvassel3 · Nov 29, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

For those who may not know, my son (Admin5) and I started iboats 4 years ago.

Trent · Nov 29, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

mellowyellow · Nov 30, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

I hope everyone had a happy thanksgiving.... I also hope you all took a moment to truly be thankful for all of the things we have. on that note, I am thankful for this forum. I sit at my desk from 7am till 7pm staring at my computer. It's always nice to get away for a few moments to read/post/discuss my favorite hobby; boats and fishing. I would like to re-post a story concerning the relationship betwenn dealers/wrenches and customers. I live in a little Erie Canal town halfway btw. Buffalo and Rochester. there is only 1 boat repair shop within an hour each way. needless to say, this guy is booked all throughout the season an if you need service, you could wait months.

now I've been is his shop a few times buying odds and ends and making small talk, but have really never needed to take my boat in... until: last year we had a 10 day vacation in the 1000 islands planned. the week before I decided to change my impeller. I'm good with theory, but not so good with a wrench... didn't get the shift shaft lined up properly, and ended up breaking the little piece (table) that the shift dog sits on. (of course didn't know that at the time) OMG!!!! no boat in the 1000 islands??? so I show up at the local wrenches shop at about 4:30 with my lower unit in my hand and explain my dilemma and plead for help. he proceeds to drop what he's doing and completely dissasemles my L/U in 5 min. (he had tools I never knew existed) he finds the problem and we try to think of a way to get it fixed. I offer to buy a lower unit, but he has none in stock. now I'm really in trouble! then all of a sudden he comes up with a VERY shady idea... he takes a big steel washer, cuts it in half so it will sit on top of what's left of the broken table. he then takes it over to his welder and attatches the shift dog. it's now about 5:30 and his dinner is waiting (his house is right next to his shop). he tells me to come back in the a.m. and he'll see what he can do. he opens at 9am, I'm there at 8:30 and the L/U is already assemled. he then installs it for me, fills it up with fluid, and then tests it. IT WORKS!!!!

he charges me 2 hrs. labor ($80) we left for the islands as soon as we got back home and loaded up. what a great guy! why did he drop what he was doing to help an idiot like me??? maybe cuz I was polite and treated him with respect? because I was in a tight spot and he felt sorry for me? probably a combination of all of the above. I am willing to bet he wouldn't do it if I rubbed him the wrong way. he had every right to tell me: sorry, you'll have to get in line and wait and maybe he would have told some other guy that... who knows? what's the moral here? you decide for yourself... but for me, it's simple. 1)the lowest price isn't always the best value. need to buy/service a motor? maybe you should spend a little more and buy it from the place with the best service and not the lowest price. 2)there are both bad/good wrenches and customers. it's a "relationship" business and being respectful and polite go's both ways. I made it a point to go back after the trip and bring him a pic. of some big Northern Pike to put up on the wall and give him some of my wife's famous brownies. he was really surprized and grateful. he told me he rarely gets a thank you like that. what? why not? are people too busy these days? he sure wasn't when I needed him.. sorry for the long post... hope it gives some of you guys a different point of view. and for all you guys wondering, it's a '70 merc 1150. peace.

Capt Ken · Nov 30, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

Excuse me BV, I'm not doubting you, but if you and your son started Iboats years ago, why does your profile show you just joined June 25, 2002. Just wondering.

bvassel3 · Nov 30, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

A good question Capt Ken. Frankly, in the past I either let my son respond to the forums, or occasionally I responded by using his Admin5 designation. More recently I decided to join myself, mostly to get good information on topics in which I am personally interested and to offer input on topics that I know something about...like everyone else on the forums.

Scoop · Nov 30, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

BV, I want to thank you for creating this forum. It has provided me with a load of information, entertainment, and a lot of personal reflection. It is an exceptional site with a ton of good people. It is definitely a community in all senses of the word. Again, thank you for providing this site. Mellow Yellow, well said. There are so many service people out there that are never thanked for all their good work. The person that helped you is someone who really cares about his clients. The good dealers and service techs far outnumber the bad.

mellowyellow · Nov 30, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

thanks Scoop, more than that though, how many people begrudge the $40-$50 bucks an hour and think they deserve something special? how many realize just how much money these guys have invested in "special" tools that we wouldn't even think of buying? as in most any facet of life, how you treat the other person will directly reflect on how they treat you.if you don't have a "relationship" with your shop, take some time and build one. otherwise, find a shop you can. just my .02 M.Y.

jee70611 · Nov 30, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

MY, I agree 100% with what you said about service tech's. I always try my best to treat them with respect. I usually get respect in return. When I see people working hard in any business, be it McDonald's, Wal-Mart, Sears, etc., I tend to be as patient as possible. Now, I do get irritated when I see them loafing around. I'm even nice to telemarketers(on their first attempt)

, because I know they're just doing their job. I let them know that too and ask them to remove my name from their call list. Amazingly, it seems to work sometimes. I think that people, as a society, need to try to follow the golden rule. If we did, there would be sooooo much more peace in the world. Instead of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," It seems like we have a new golden rule that reads, "Do unto others as they do unto you."

James PS: BV Thanks for the forums and iBoats. I have learned a LOT from reading them. Please don't EVER get rid of them

.

Scoop · Dec 1, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

MY, you're absolutely right. Running a computer service department, the cost of my techs per hour is over $50. Very few techs are 100% billable (Mine are not close). That means what you bill has to be more than $50 plus the time they spend idle, the training to get certified is at least $1,700 per class, plus travel, lodging, perdiem, etc. I personally did not realize the amount of money it takes to run a service department until I became the manager. In addition, warranty payments from the manufacturers are so low now, it costs me money for my tech to do a service call. My company makes money in different ways, and the service department helps bring money in to our business indirectly. A lot of companies are getting rid of their service departments because they lose money. I am not whining just stating facts. I am sure the cost of outfitting an outboard service department are very close to a computer service department. The only difference is there are very few outboards that are throw -away if they go bad. It is best to support the mechanics you trust. Good mechanics and goods service does not come cheap, but in the long run, the good tech will bill you less because they can do it faster and more efficiently.

93bronco · Dec 10, 2002

Re: JB-Inflamatory Topics

ya know i generally stay in one area that suits my needs but this i have to respond to. little late than never. last year when i was new to this iboats i got a little T-d when i didnt get any responses. hey i was getting ready to or just had surgery and didnt have alot of time to wait. it seemed like forever before someone answered me. no around, stuck to the house and heavily medicated. i snapped at the very people i was seeking help from, not to be rude or mean. oh how i wished i could delete what i posted or even take it back. but this site wont let you so i had to deal with it and hope if i ever asked another question i would get a response. so many times we get caught up in our own little worlds that we forget that there is no stupid question, its only stupid not to ask. i see many unanswered questions that i now try to help if i can only to hope that i am not considered stupid or taken the wrong way. maybe this forum should let people remove their own remarks instead of having them censored. granted there is no need for personal attacks, but then some mite feel attacked or intimidated by the way their questioned is answered or yet not answered. i see no reason for neither. their is alot of talented people as well as the not so talented who turn to each other for help on this forum, and no one needs to be insulted. hey im just babbling waiting for someone to answer my questions. but i do want to aplologize for my anger in the past and thank everyone who has help me thus far. hey how about a spell checker, just a thought.

JB-Inflamatory Topics

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