It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

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KeltonKrew

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Fly Rod.....you are mistaken about the news media on Baby Sun...It was a big deal here in Houston. This child had a condition that wouldn't allow his lungs to grow, effectively suffocating him to death. He was on ventilators, tubes, etc. He couldn't breathe on his own w/out the assistance of the ventilator.<br /><br />Doctors didn't make the call. They recommended it and it went through the courts back and forth.<br /><br />For baby sun, I feel it was the right thing to do....He was dying a slow death (not able to breathe) and couldn't live w/out the ventilator. To me, that's not living. He would have never got off the ventilator and he was slowly suffocating.
 
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BigPoppaG

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Originally posted by SoulWinner:<br /> Jeep, obviously, not all severely brain damaged people are starving to death in Florida. Some of them are regular posters to this forum ;)
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Finally a voice of reason. LOL
 
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Ralph 123

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

The images you are seeing are old. Many were part of the court record of examinations. She hasn't been recorder in years by order of the court. She also has not been allowed to leave the room, her window was ordered covered and she is not allowed to receive any further examinations or therapy. This is all on the record and not in dispute. <br /><br />Why has the court ordered that? Who knows. I am sure the Judge would say to protect her privacy, the family says it's because people would be surprised to see how conscious she really is.<br /><br />Some of the physicians saying she not PVS have been on record for years and some like Dr Hammesfahr (Nobel prize nominee in this field) even testified at the trial. He was ignored.<br /><br />The Neurologist for the central park jogger (remember her) was just on Fox. She talked about how she was reprimanded for telling the family that she could recover and the damage wasn't as bad as others had said. Well that jogger did recover and even just wrote a book. She was just asked to review all the medical reports and tapes, based on that she too concluded Terri is not PVS. <br /><br />And, does it really matter when they spoke up? Isn't what is important that a mistake not be made? .<br /><br />I don't know what movie rights or money you're talking about. I see parents trying to save their daughter's life. You see monsters keeping their child alive to earn money. Seems to me you must then think the husband is a real monster for telling one jury he needed a $1M to care for her for the rest of her life and then trying to have her euthanized shortly after the award.<br /><br />As for tax payers, if he hadn't spent all the money to kill her, the taxpayers wouldn't be paying a cent. So again, you must really dislike the husband for putting this cost on your back.
 
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kenimpzoom

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

A lot of you are letting the BS and politics cloud your judgement.<br /><br />Lets think of what is best for her.<br /><br />Look at the videos of her. All of her muscles are tight. She isnt there.<br /><br />Would you want to live if you were in her condition?<br /><br />My friend looked exactly like her, and I was happy to hear he finally passed away. He should have died the instant the car hit him, but the doctors were able to salvage what was left of his brain. It would have been much better had he died on the operating table.<br /><br />I dont like the way she has to die now, but it is much better than "living" in her condition.<br /><br />Ken
 
Realgun

Realgun

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

From what I understand, Terri Shiavo's condition started in early 1990. She was hospitalized, and underwent treatment and therapy for three years. In 1993, Micheal Shiavo ordered the doctors to discontinue therapy.<br /><br />I obviously don't know Michael Shiavo's true motives, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. THREE YEARS his wife underwent therapy. That's a long time to sit by a hospital bed and pray for a sign of recovery, but none ever came.<br /><br />Before you label Michael Shiavo a terrible husband, put yourself in his shoes. If you're wife is unresponsive, at what point do you pull the plug? Three years? Eight years?<br /><br />What if you're wife's family wouldn't let you pull the plug. Would you fight them? I know I would. I'd be screaming at them "She's not getting any better, for God's sake, just let her die." I'd be spending every last penny I had fighting to finally lay my poor wife to rest and end her suffering.<br /><br />The first few years, I'd be doing everything possible to save my wife, you bet. But if she doesn't recover, I'd be doing everything possible to finally lay her to rest. Maybe Michael Shiavo is doing the same, fighting for his wife's right to die.
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Is she dead yet?<br />My wife and I have ammended our living will a long time ago over this very issue. I would never want to be in her shoes or his shoes.<br /><br />This case should never have gone on and in the press as it has. Its insane!
 
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Ralph 123

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

I think your missing the point Ken. It's not about what you would want for yourself. It's about what she would want. That is in dispute.<br /><br />If she is "brain dead" as you think, then she's not there anyway. She's not feeling any pain. She's not in any discomfort.<br /><br />If she is in pain and discomfort, then she's still very much alive and shouldn't be starved to death.<br /><br />Like I said, I hope your side is right. Her husbands motives are pure and her condition is as bad as some say. If the autopsy shows otherwise the stuff is really going to hit the fan.
 
eeboater

eeboater

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

You're right Ralph! I wonder what will happen when they do the autopsy and find out she was an abused woman!!!!<br /><br />What will we hear? SILENCE from the current opposition.
 
eeboater

eeboater

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Originally posted by SoulWinner:<br /> Jeep, obviously, not all severely brain damaged people are starving to death in Florida. Some of them are regular posters to this forum ;)
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LOL!!!
 
SpinnerBait_Nut

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

But Ralph, come on, anyone in their right mind would not want to live like that, would you?<br />I know I wouldn't and would hope that someone would do whatever it took to see that I didn't.<br /><br />This has got plum away from the woman, it's all about the husband and the parents now. IMO.
 
eeboater

eeboater

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Am I the only one who WOULD like to live like that? Since the testimony of several doctors have said that there is a possibility of her recovering from with some continuous rehab...<br /><br />I'd want to be stuck in rehab... At least I wouldn't be dead.<br /><br />Sean
 
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BigPoppaG

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Ralph,<br />Brain Damage not Brain Dead. There is a HUGH difference between the two.
 
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Ralph 123

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Well SBN It depends <br /><br />I know I would not allow myself to be starved to death unless I was declared clinically brain dead (flat EEG). So, in her condition (not brain dead) I would rather live than die of starvation (by the way, when I say starvation, it is starvation and/or dehydration).<br /><br />I know for certain, I would want every test run that exists and I would want every doctor that wanted to examine me and/or work with me to do so before making the final call. Terry has not had an MRI or a PET scan and the doctors who have been allowed to examine and/or treat her as been artificially limited by order of the court.<br /><br />For the record, my dad had a cerebral hemorrhage and went brain dead. We did allow the hospital to withhold food and water (after I saw proof) and I sat an watched him die which took 14 days and was horrific. So I am speaking from first hand experience.<br /><br />In another case, the hospital was trying to kill my grandfather and after some "vigorous" debate, care was restored, he recover fine and lived another 15 years on his own.
 
SpinnerBait_Nut

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Nope, not me. I will not be a burden to my wife if I have anything to say about it and I do and have.<br /><br />I have lived a full life and when it's time, it's time and I don't want any doctor "saving" me to a life like that woman has had, no thanks.
 
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kenimpzoom

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

These people do feel pain. They just dont have enough brainleft to know what to do with it.<br /><br />They arent brain dead, just partially brain dead. But most of her brain is dead.<br /><br />With therapy she will be better, but she wont ever be the same. The best she could hope for is to swallow her own food. Perhaps she could communicate simple feelings via blinking or hand squeezing.<br /><br />It would be awful selfish of me to want to live in that condition and put that much burden on my family and wife.<br /><br />Whats the point of living if you can interact in some meaningful way.<br /><br />Ken
 
SpinnerBait_Nut

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

There ya go Ken, and I don't think she will ever be able to swallow without getting strangled, that's what's wrong now, she swallows the liquid into her lungs.
 
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Ralph 123

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

That is why it's so important SBN that one person's judgment not be substituted for another when the case is ambiguous. In this case her condition is ambiguous and her wishes are ambiguous. That's why it is where it is.<br /><br />Here is this little Iraqi kid on Fox who has CP. Lot's of people wouldn't want to live like that either. But look, a GI adopted him and loves him and they are both so happy....<br /><br />Another personal story that shows you how unsure the medical profession really is. Why wife and I were basically advised to abort our son because some test showed he was going to be born profoundly messed up. He's in the top percentile in every measure physically and mentally. These people act like they know but they really don't.
 
SpinnerBait_Nut

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

This is my last post on this. The courts have ruled so I don't know what else the parents can do. I hope for the best for them.<br /><br />I will not live like that. It is in writing.<br /><br />I do wish something would happen so I could see something else on TV besides that.<br />That's the only reason it is such a big topic and everyone knows it. Media.<br /><br />If it was you or I, not a word would be said.<br /><br />Ok, you all have at it and have a good-un. :cool:
 
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kenimpzoom

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

Ralph I do agree with you, I would want every test before pulling the plug. Let me live for a couple of months, if no sign of improvement, pull it. I'll trust my familys judgement.<br /><br />Terri has had 15 years to improve. It just isnt going to happen.<br /><br />If it was so important to Terri that she be allowed to live in all cases, I would have thought she would have written it down. By her not writing it down, you have to assume she didnt think it was important.<br /><br />Glad your child turned out great, I would have done exactly the same as you. I never trust those idiot doctors. We had one tell the wife our babys head was enlarged, and she was born 100% perfect.<br /><br />Ken
 
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Barlow

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Re: It looks like the party of 'choice' is losing again!

I don't know why I wasted my time reading this for the first time just now.. <br /><br />GOD!!! .... PLEASE LET THE LAKES THAW OUT!!!
 
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