Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

that would be the Alpha SS

however plenty of people on screamandfly.com are running about 450-500 hp thru alphas. synthetic oil, drive showers, and easy holeshots will keep them alive. its the holeshot that will kill the drive

here is a performance Alpha drive that will handle 650hp http://www.rlcboats.com/

(looks familiar doesnt it.... )

That boat "project triple digits" is a pretty cool build, I have made reference to it a couple times in this thread.

 

[rschap1]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Tripledigits is "FAMOUS" on alot of boards for a variety of reasons...

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

tripledigits is "famous" on alot of boards for a variety of reasons...

:d:d:d

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Tripledigits is "FAMOUS" on alot of boards for a variety of reasons...

Ive stumbled on to some of those "hater" threads. To me it is what it is... cool old boat, small block powered, runs well, easy to replicate. He doesn't mind telling you how how has done it.
Seems like most of the haters were "clamp on" guys, different world!

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

If that drive only costs 3500 it may be worth it. Once I finally trash this one, I'll post on here and we can all discuss the options.

I had a slight setback yesterday. I was putting together the exhaust - had the whole port side assembled, was getting ready to do the starboard, and I noticed I took the shutters out of the Y-pipe. Of course I had no idea where they were, and of course no dealer was open to go get a set. Now the port side pipes have to come back apart and I have to wait until tomorrow to get a set of shutters. Hopefully I'll still get in the water this week - once I have the parts, it's not more than 3 or 4 hours of work.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

you do realize 5 minutes after you get home from buying new shutters you will find the old ones.

 

[John_S]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Ive stumbled on to some of those "hater" threads. To me it is what it is... cool old boat, small block powered, runs well, easy to replicate. He doesn't mind telling you how how has done it.
Seems like most of the haters were "clamp on" guys, different world!

If I could get 70 mph from a near stock 350 vortec (test 10) I'd be estatic!

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

If I could get 70 mph from a near stock 350 vortec (test 10) I'd be estatic!

So your not believing the results they report?

 

[John_S]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

So your not believing the results they report?

Not for test 10 with the little HP improvements:

Vortec Heads: 30hp
1.6 rockers: 10 hp
Exhast manifold: 10 hp
Carb: 750 cfm to 650 cfm: No gain
Cast iron highrise to rpm ag: No gain
Remove circ pump: 5 hp
T4 to MSD: No gain
Weight reduction (100lbs): negligable

55 hp to go from 56.6 to 70 mph in a 21' v hull, doesn't seem plausible to me.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Not for test 10 with the little HP improvements:

Vortec Heads: 30hp
1.6 rockers: 10 hp
Exhast manifold: 10 hp
Carb: 750 cfm to 650 cfm: No gain
Cast iron highrise to rpm ag: No gain
Remove circ pump: 5 hp
T4 to MSD: No gain
Weight reduction (100lbs): negligable

55 hp to go from 56.6 to 70 mph in a 21' v hull, doesn't seem plausible to me.

I cannot understand why he has that old thread still up. One would think by now he may have gained some sense


Test 4
Installed a Michigan 3 Blade Aluminum 23 pitch 14 inch diameter prop everything else being the same. The boat did not like the 14 inch diameter prop. Best speed was 58.4 MPH with a max of 4800 RMPs. The prop slippage increased to 16%. It only wanted to go straight and only wanted to be trimmed in at one place. Any other place it would cavitate and be a little difficult to drive. There was a problem and we needed to solve it, as you can see in the 4 previous test we were getting nearly identical results in mph and rpm so not much was happening

Now lets see since its stock it's ok to use 1.5 gearing...23p prop....4800rpm.....that is 70mph @ 0% slip.....58.4 is 17... a realistic slip say 11% is 62 mph. Now what 270 hp motor can turn a 23p prop on a 22' boat with 1.5 gearing to 4800 rpm...Hmm ..

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

I cannot understand why he has that old thread still up. One would think by now he may have gained some sense


Test 4
Installed a Michigan 3 Blade Aluminum 23 pitch 14 inch diameter prop everything else being the same. The boat did not like the 14 inch diameter prop. Best speed was 58.4 MPH with a max of 4800 RMPs. The prop slippage increased to 16%. It only wanted to go straight and only wanted to be trimmed in at one place. Any other place it would cavitate and be a little difficult to drive. There was a problem and we needed to solve it, as you can see in the 4 previous test we were getting nearly identical results in mph and rpm so not much was happening

Now lets see since its stock it ok to use 1.5 gearing...23p prop....4800rpm.....that 70mph@0%.....58.4 is 17...Now what boat can turn a 23 prop with a stock 350....

Ive never tried this... a tweaked performance oriented small block in a boat, but plan to in the future. So you guys are saying his slip numbers dont add up? That the gains are not believable? I'm not defending and saying that they are but you guys are overlooking an awful lot of modifications that were made, it is hardly stock!

Mkos1980 has a much heavier not so sleek hull and is running over 65 mph without many of the mods this guy has made at the 70mph claim. Granted Mkos has a rather large roller cam.

 

[John_S]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Ive never tried this... a tweaked performance oriented small block in a boat, but plan to in the future. So you guys are saying his slip numbers dont add up? That the gains are not believable? I'm not defending and saying that they are but you guys are overlooking an awful lot of modifications that were made, it is hardly stock!

Mkos1980 has a much heavier not so sleek hull and is running over 65 mph without many of the mods this guy has made at the 70mph claim. Granted Mkos has a rather large roller cam.

There are alot of inconsistancies through test ten. After test ten, is out of my relm of expierence.

I think I was rather generous/realistic with my hp calculations, and you would have to more than double it, to get those kind of speed increases. It appears that there were stock powerplants available for that Maxxim, that would have had equivelent hp to the build at step ten. 70mph off the showroom floor should have made a big splash back in the 80's. If Greg sees 70 mph with his build, I'd think he would be estatic.

Speaking of the cam, who would go through all these little tweaks and not change the cam out? He spent more gaining less. Changed the starter for weight savings???

Maybe it would help, if you detail why you think it is believable at step 10. I didn't see it a few years ago when I read it, or now.

PS: I'd have to go back and review Mkos1980's builds. For some reason, I thought his boat was something in the 18-20' range.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

There are alot of inconsistancies through test ten. After test ten, is out of my relm of expierence.

I think I was rather generous with my hp calculations, and you would have to more than double it, to get those kind of speed increases. It appears that there were stock powerplants available for that Maxxim, that would have had equivelent hp to the build at step ten. 70mph off the showroom floor should have made a big splash back in the 80's. If Greg sees 70 mph with his build, I'd think he would be estatic.

Speaking of the cam, who would go through all these little tweaks and not change the cam out? He spent more gaining less. Changed the starter for weight savings???

Maybe it would help, if you detail why you think it is believable at step 10. I didn't see it a few years ago when I read it, or now.

There are an awful lot of variables but if i keep it simple with what i know and what i trust to be true i come up with this.

What i know...
My 19 foot 1900 Caravelle SE runs 50 mph with a stock 190 hp v6. It is anything but a sleek, speed hull.

What i trust...
Another member, (45auto) who seems pretty trustworthy, here has my same boat/hull and has claimed 300hp got him 60mph
and 430hp well over 70mph.

What i suspect...
This triple digit project hull is much more speed capable than mine.
What seems off in test 10 is that the stock mph test seems low. Doesn't seem right that a 270 hp only gets you 56 mph. That maybe what makes the mph gains seem unreasonable? Id guess that hopped up engine at 330 easy, pushing it maybe 350. So he has more power and less weight than the boat ever came with in the optional big block trim. I'm sure it is more rpm capable than the big block. I couldn't find any OEM speed claims. So who knows, if he is lying i bet its not by much.

Also what i know...
There are lots of wise cracks made on iboats as to the importance of aftermarket ignition systems, distributors, fuel pumps, Holley carburetors, weight savings etc. After spending half my life turning wrenches and racing I can tell you... if pound for pound cubic inch for cubic inch you are not using these items you will be loosing to the guy that is. The sum of the parts makes a big difference. I'm not saying that if individually any single performance part that might give you 5hp and you do everyone in the catalog you get 500 hp, but i think you know what i mean.

Most people are not capable of tuning a given engine combination to perform at its full potential. Just because they copy parts of a known combination doesn't mean they will get the same outcome. I cant count how many 350ish hp small blocks i have tuned on that were probably 50 hp off because the ignition timing, valve adjustment, carb jetting was off.

I dont have much personal performance boat experience. I have a friend that does. I frequently visit his shop. There are lots of different boats in and out of his shop. Some mildly tweaked, some full on crazy. Something you never see on the go fast boats are stock type ignition, distributors, fuel systems, etc. Same as my car back ground.

Based on the boats Ive been around id think the tweaked small block in that hull is capable of 70mph. Maybe not... Maybe the documentation is off a bit. Maybe he is lying to sell parts. Who knows...

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Something you never see on the go fast boats are stock type ignition, distributors, fuel systems, etc. Same as my car back ground.

Uhoh... I'm running a basically stock Delco Voyager ignition. Do I see a $700 MSD system in my future??

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Uhoh... I'm running a basically stock Delco Voyager ignition. Do I see a $700 MSD system in my future??

It will run smoother and allow more tune-ability. It will have less spark scatter and keep the plugs cleaner. The shafts are over sized, fully machined, ball bearing supported.

Stock ignition, if new, is fine. If i had well used stock and were considering buying new for a performance build i darn sure would not buy stock.

You wont see wild gains but they are better.

If you want even better, rock solid timing control go to a crank trigger set up.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Ive never tried this... a tweaked performance oriented small block in a boat, but plan to in the future. So you guys are saying his slip numbers dont add up? That the gains are not believable? I'm not defending and saying that they are but you guys are overlooking an awful lot of modifications that were made, it is hardly stock!

Mkos1980 has a much heavier not so sleek hull and is running over 65 mph without many of the mods this guy has made at the 70mph claim. Granted Mkos has a rather large roller cam.

Mkos is a good reference a well built 350 with top end work done right. I would imagine 350 to 375 hp..Good hull and hes maxed at 65 with a 21p laser if i remeber...Not a 270hp smog cam 350 turning a 23p prop to 4800 with 1.5 gearing. Enough said about this on my part

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Uhoh... I'm running a basically stock Delco Voyager ignition. Do I see a $700 MSD system in my future??

Greg,

Isn't the voyager a recent addition to your boat? In other words, its not a clapped out old dizzy (as the Aussie folks say).
Drop your voyager in place, and run it. You've dropped plenty of cash on this project thus far, and it's getting far too nice out to not at least get this boat together enough to drop it in and start enjoying it.

With enough care and attention to detail, the voyager should do fine for you for the time being. Believe it or not, people used to use single and dual point stand-alone distributors on their go-fast _____________(fill in the blank), and they made out OK. While the jeweled, fully adjustable, multiple spark, shiny distributors have allot to offer over your voyager, your voyager is still capable of getting you up and running.

If you feel as though the voyager is leaving something on the table, or it just so happens you have a wad of money burnging a hole in your pocket, you can always upgrade with little hassle.

 

[John_S]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

I will take another look at the hull this evenung. I didn't see anything that was significantly impressive the 1st time. Weight seemed on par with many "value" boats, and deadrise and other specs looked in the norm. Are you familiar with that hull? What did I miss?

If his starting numbers were low, it is only by a couple of mph. Look at any tests on boattest.com that have 350 Mags (300HP at prop) in them. Most are just under 60, with a few just touching it.

I look forward to your tweaks and testing results. I think you will be surprised by some of the differences, especially if you are not planing to run the rpms of "go fast" boats or cars.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Greg,

Isn't the voyager a recent addition to your boat? In other words, its not a clapped out old dizzy (as the Aussie folks say).
Drop your voyager in place, and run it. You've dropped plenty of cash on this project thus far, and it's getting far too nice out to not at least get this boat together enough to drop it in and start enjoying it.

With enough care and attention to detail, the voyager should do fine for you for the time being. Believe it or not, people used to use single and dual point stand-alone distributors on their go-fast _____________(fill in the blank), and they made out OK. While the jeweled, fully adjustable, multiple spark, shiny distributors have allot to offer over your voyager, your voyager is still capable of getting you up and running.

If you feel as though the voyager is leaving something on the table, or it just so happens you have a wad of money burnging a hole in your pocket, you can always upgrade with little hassle.

Yea, the Voyager was brand new about 1/4 the way through last year when the amplifier on the TBIV stopped working. It's already installed in the engine and ready to go. I'll run it and see how it goes. Once I get everything tuned right then I'll think about whether it will be worth switching. Hopefully I'll be having way too much fun with this boat to even consider it.

It's almost splash time.. I got the shutters and finished installing the exhaust this afternoon- just need to work out some of the plumbing. Now I just need to change the oil and do a few other minor tasks, clean it up, and it will be time to put it in the water. I also bought one of those transom mount trim switches that I saw in another thread... I can't imagine that will take more than 10 minutes to install.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Here's the starboard side exhaust. Just like everything else, I gave the manifolds a coat of Mercury Racing blue. I still need to finish the hoses, and probably change out that fitting for a 90 degree one so I can run the hose out the back.