Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Im not a good test case for the weight question. Because I went from a 200hp Mercuriser 305, to a 383 with the aluminum intake and exhaust. So, my power was way different. (I wanted Aluminum Heads, but didnt get them because Patriot Performance sold me cast ones for for a great deal because they had been ran on a Dyno test engine)

Yea I'm pretty much doing the same but slightly less dramatic of a change - went from a 260 hp 350 to this 383 with an aluminum intake and exhaust which will hopefully be somewhere around 400hp. If anyone has made the switch to aluminum and noticed the weight difference, please post your experience. I assume the boat may sit slightly higher with 100lbs less in the back. I've actually considered also moving the batteries to get more weight out of the back, but there's no good place for them. .

Youll be able to tell in 10 min in the driveway if you hooked it up incorrectly. The rubber hose to the exhaust tips will get HOT.

I've actually been told not to run the engine anymore out of the water. A few guys posted here that the engine should be turned on, immediately put in gear and put above 1500 rpm right away because it's not broken in yet. I'll post a picture once I get it done - should be by next Monday or Tuesday - school is out for the summer one week from today so I'll get right on the boat when I'm home.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

I've actually been told not to run the engine anymore out of the water. A few guys posted here that the engine should be turned on, immediately put in gear and put above 1500 rpm right away because it's not broken in yet. I'll post a picture once I get it done - should be by next Monday or Tuesday - school is out for the summer one week from today so I'll get right on the boat when I'm home.

You dont have anything to break in really. Most machine shops use such good honing procedures... machine, stones etc. And good rings are really good.
The rings take a seat really quickly. The most important thing is that you don't overheat it.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

You dont have anything to break in really. Most machine shops use such good honing procedures... machine, stones etc. And good rings are really good.
The rings take a seat really quickly. The most important thing is that you don't overheat it.

So as far as the "break-in" process, Mercruiser recommends 20 hours, not exceeding 3/4 throttle for the first 10 and constantly varying the RPMs, then in the second 10 doing the same up to full throttle with occasional up to 5 minute runs at WOT. How much of that do you think is necessary - as in how quickly should the rings seat? I plan to take the boat up to lake Winnipesaukee in NH for a weekend and do the break in then. I was going to just drive it around all day for 2 days.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

The above x rpms for the first y minutes is for a flat tappet cam... Otherwise, run it enough to be sure you're not leaking anything and nothing is rattling loose, check the oil and tune, then run it like you stole it - it's broken in...

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Yea, like Tim is saying flat tappet are a big part of the "ole" break in rules. Which you dont have.
Also, inexpensive rings on rough finish cylinder walls.
With shops following piston and ring manufacturer's recommendations on cylinder specs, they break in really fast. Im guessing you have moly rings and they prob finished with 400 grit stones. Each piston was fit to each hole.

I would change your oil and filter if you haven't already.
Then run it like you stole it! Keep an eye on you're gauges! Oil and temp!

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Yea, like Tim is saying flat tappet are a big part of the "ole" break in rules. Which you dont have.
Also, inexpensive rings on rough finish cylinder walls.
With shops following piston and ring manufacturer's recommendations on cylinder specs, they break in really fast. Im guessing you have moly rings and they prob finished with 400 grit stones. Each piston was fit to each hole.

I would change your oil and filter if you haven't already.
Then run it like you stole it! Keep an eye on you're gauges! Oil and temp!

This sounds so much better than 20 hours of break in! Yeah, I do have moly rings, and I'm not sure about the honing stones but I was told that each piston was fitted to each cylinder, so chances are you are correct. As for changing the oil and filter, I am still running the comp cams break-in oil that I put in initially. Did I not need that either? It's only been run for about 30 minutes, or so should I just get rid of it and put in the new oil?

I think I am going to go with Amsoil marine synthetic oil for the engine and Amsoil synthetic gear lube for the drive. Heard lots of great things about both.

 

[Maddoxsdaddy]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

This sounds so much better than 20 hours of break in! Yeah, I do have moly rings, and I'm not sure about the honing stones but I was told that each piston was fitted to each cylinder, so chances are you are correct. As for changing the oil and filter, I am still running the comp cams break-in oil that I put in initially. Did I not need that either? It's only been run for about 30 minutes, or so should I just get rid of it and put in the new oil?

I think I am going to go with Amsoil marine synthetic oil for the engine and Amsoil synthetic gear lube for the drive. Heard lots of great things about both.

Everything i have heard about vortec motors with roller cams is... 1) Get 'em together. 2) GO!!!!
Apparently no need for break ins like the older style flat tappet cams and the older style rings/seals.

 

[joewithaboat]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

This sounds so much better than 20 hours of break in! Yeah, I do have moly rings, and I'm not sure about the honing stones but I was told that each piston was fitted to each cylinder, so chances are you are correct. As for changing the oil and filter, I am still running the comp cams break-in oil that I put in initially. Did I not need that either? It's only been run for about 30 minutes, or so should I just get rid of it and put in the new oil?

I think I am going to go with Amsoil marine synthetic oil for the engine and Amsoil synthetic gear lube for the drive. Heard lots of great things about both.

Comp cams break in oil is good stuff. It will keep you from scuffing a piston skirt. It is mostly for flat tappets but is wont hurt anything.
The biggest problem with it at this point is it probably doesn't have any thing in it to combat moisture.
Look at this thread from elsewhere... the poster "wingnut" is an insider from the oil industry. Pretty interesting, I found it about the time that i wasn't able to find the 15-50 extended performance Mobil 1 anymore, but didn't know why.

http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?showtopic=13471

Id stick with the Merc HP drive oil for the same reason. It will continue to work even when it has quite a bit of water in it. I think Tim has told you about this as well.


All Amsoil products are top notch, Im sure there marine syn motor oil is good. Ive used their stuff with good results, but have not tried that product.

Cant wait to see/hear your rig on the water.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Everything i have heard about vortec motors with roller cams is... 1) Get 'em together. 2) GO!!!!
Apparently no need for break ins like the older style flat tappet cams and the older style rings/seals.

Now that is exactly what I want to hear! Can't wait to get out on the water and start playing with props.

Comp cams break in oil is good stuff. It will keep you from scuffing a piston skirt. It is mostly for flat tappets but is wont hurt anything.
The biggest problem with it at this point is it probably doesn't have any thing in it to combat moisture.
Look at this thread from elsewhere... the poster "wingnut" is an insider from the oil industry. Pretty interesting, I found it about the time that i wasn't able to find the 15-50 extended performance Mobil 1 anymore, but didn't know why.

http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?showtopic=13471

Id stick with the Merc HP drive oil for the same reason. It will continue to work even when it has quite a bit of water in it. I think Tim has told you about this as well.


All Amsoil products are top notch, Im sure there marine syn motor oil is good. Ive used their stuff with good results, but have not tried that product.

Cant wait to see/hear your rig on the water.

Wow, that guy really knows his stuff. I read that whole thing and he really provides some great info. Thanks Joe - and good point about the moisture protection. I'll switch out the Comp Cams oil before I put the boat on the water.

 

[John_S]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Yea I'm pretty much doing the same but slightly less dramatic of a change - went from a 260 hp 350 to this 383 with an aluminum intake and exhaust which will hopefully be somewhere around 400hp. If anyone has made the switch to aluminum and noticed the weight difference, please post your experience. I assume the boat may sit slightly higher with 100lbs less in the back. I've actually considered also moving the batteries to get more weight out of the back, but there's no good place for them.

Yea, you made too many other changes, but if the curiousity is too much, add 100lbs and see what the degradation in performance is. My guess is, you will be having too much fun to think or worry about it, at that point.

I wouldn't move the batteries. Moving weight forward helps with planing time, but you won't have a problem there. Having the weight toward the stearn helps most v hulls for top speed. More hull out of the water. You can test that by having a person sit in the bow and then in the stearn.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Yea, you made too many other changes, but if the curiousity is too much, add 100lbs and see what the degradation in performance is. My guess is, you will be having too much fun to think or worry about it, at that point.

I wouldn't move the batteries. Moving weight forward helps with planing time, but you won't have a problem there. Having the weight toward the stearn helps most v hulls for top speed. More hull out of the water. You can test that by having a person sit in the bow and then in the stearn.

Yea I agree I've made too many other changes - I was just curious if anyone has done just the weight removal and seen any noticeable change. At this point I just want to see how much power I've added and how fast I'm going to go. Almost time to splash... The weekend after next is go time.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

a decent cooler worth of beverages is about 100# however you have added about 150hp. splash it, then try to wipe the smile off your face and remember what 100# you were worried about.

 

[Alwhite00]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

You are running an Alpha correct? How long you think that will last with 400 HP?

LK

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

You are running an Alpha correct? How long you think that will last with 400 HP?

LK

Great question. Check out my signature. I've already started a new outdrive fund. Lots of people run Alpha's and 383's on this site with more HP than I have without any problems. I'll be careful.

 

[wca_tim]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

I've only truly lunched one alpha drive - with 450ish horsepower in front of it / them running flat out for fairly long periods of time. I was entirely to blame for the one I trashed hard - I didn't get it sealed right and so water got in through the front. Not a lot, but I was also running redline shockproof which works amazingly well when no wateris present, BUT add just a tiny bit of water and some heat and it phase separate3s and tuens into something like jello, the upper gear set gets underlubed and overheated and bits of metal go everywhere (inside an alpha ss drive mind you - that hurt). that's why i've come ful circle on drive lubes... btw. your boat will be a few miles an hour faster with an alpoha drive... run avented 3 blade prop like a laser 2 to start with and I'll bet you'll be happy with it. Note also that you're also probably going to want trim tabs with the extra power the tendency to porpoise is going to be greater... I'm betting you wind up with a 25" ish prop with your 1.8 gear ratio. and by all means, if your engine makes max hp at 5500 rpms, prop it to max out there. Your performance will be better throughout the rpm range.

I can't comment on the weight... I went from an all iron 4.3 to a 383 with iron heads and aluminum exhaust and intake then to aluminum heads... now that i've gone closed coooling it is a bit heavier than the 4.3, but not too much so.

engine oil is quite a different issue. Mobile one 15-50 or vtwin all the way. if you get water in it something is wrong... Note that you're better off running a hot enough thermostat that yoyur engine gets hot enough to boil the water off now and then.

In terms of marine vs auto, etc.. I liked the comments of the oil guy linked above, good info (my formal education work area is organic / polymer chemistry). The marine builder that did my current bottom end builds them very much like a circle track engine with clearances a little looser than a typical street car to allow for the additional thermal expansion, specs normal volume, high quality oil pump, with 15-50 mobile one or rotella 15-40. He also said that if I'm going to run it hard, I needed a good oil cooler if I want it to hold together for a long time. even with the oil cooler, since I'm taking oil pressure off the front of the block, pressure at idle drops a good bit after a long hard run (indicating a drop in viscosity due to temperature increase...).

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

I've only truly lunched one alpha drive - with 450ish horsepower in front of it / them running flat out for fairly long periods of time. I was entirely to blame for the one I trashed hard - I didn't get it sealed right and so water got in through the front. Not a lot, but I was also running redline shockproof which works amazingly well when no wateris present, BUT add just a tiny bit of water and some heat and it phase separate3s and tuens into something like jello, the upper gear set gets underlubed and overheated and bits of metal go everywhere (inside an alpha ss drive mind you - that hurt). that's why i've come ful circle on drive lubes... btw. your boat will be a few miles an hour faster with an alpoha drive... run avented 3 blade prop like a laser 2 to start with and I'll bet you'll be happy with it. Note also that you're also probably going to want trim tabs with the extra power the tendency to porpoise is going to be greater... I'm betting you wind up with a 25" ish prop with your 1.8 gear ratio. and by all means, if your engine makes max hp at 5500 rpms, prop it to max out there. Your performance will be better throughout the rpm range.

I can't comment on the weight... I went from an all iron 4.3 to a 383 with iron heads and aluminum exhaust and intake then to aluminum heads... now that i've gone closed coooling it is a bit heavier than the 4.3, but not too much so.

engine oil is quite a different issue. Mobile one 15-50 or vtwin all the way. if you get water in it something is wrong... Note that you're better off running a hot enough thermostat that yoyur engine gets hot enough to boil the water off now and then.

In terms of marine vs auto, etc.. I liked the comments of the oil guy linked above, good info (my formal education work area is organic / polymer chemistry). The marine builder that did my current bottom end builds them very much like a circle track engine with clearances a little looser than a typical street car to allow for the additional thermal expansion, specs normal volume, high quality oil pump, with 15-50 mobile one or rotella 15-40. He also said that if I'm going to run it hard, I needed a good oil cooler if I want it to hold together for a long time. even with the oil cooler, since I'm taking oil pressure off the front of the block, pressure at idle drops a good bit after a long hard run (indicating a drop in viscosity due to temperature increase...).

I'll be sure to pressure test the drive to make sure everything is sealed right - I want to get at least some life out of this drive. I still haven't decided what gear lube to run - leaning toward Amsoil marine gear lube. Tim, I assume you meant a 1.5 gear ratio - that's what my drive is. Right now I own a 21" Mirage that I was using before, and have a 25" Laser II prop to test out, and I'll probably need to buy a new one after I get some #s and figure out what I need.

I'm not sure what the RPM range of my motor will be. I'm using an RPM Air Gap intake that is good from something like 1500-6500 rpm and the cam range according to compcams.com is 1200-5200 rpm. Does that mean that it won't perform well above 5200?

I've heard 50 weight oil isn't good for marine engines - but I forget exactly why. Something about it not lubricating well during startup and requiring a pre-oiler. Any truth to that? I don't intend to run this motor hard for long periods so I don't think a cooler is necessary right now.

On another note, the Alpha drive got a coat of paint today. I painted it like a Bravo XR - the upper black and the lower silver. It didn't come out perfect, but oh well, it's going to be hidden under the swim platform and in the water all the time.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Greg,

Looks like you're making good progress. I may have missed it in previous post, but is the outdrive fund to convert over to a bravo drive, or buy a fresh alpha?

Have you considered adding a drive shower to the alpha you have? Might get a little more time with it if you keep it running on the cooler side.

 

[greg82255]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

Greg,

Looks like you're making good progress. I may have missed it in previous post, but is the outdrive fund to convert over to a bravo drive, or buy a fresh alpha?

Have you considered adding a drive shower to the alpha you have? Might get a little more time with it if you keep it running on the cooler side.

I actually bought a drive shower and have it sitting here - just haven't gotten around to installing it yet. It will go on there before the boat gets splashed. As for the outdrive fund, I haven't decided yet. It will probably depend on how much money is in the fund when this one goes. Leaning towards another alpha - I can break about 3 alphas for the price of a bravo

 

[Maddoxsdaddy]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

I wonder if there are any hi-performance ALphas on the market.... with heavier duty gears, etc, built for bigger HP. I may end up with the same problem... but i won't be pushing anymore then 330-340hp by the time im done.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Here We Go: My 383 Stroker Winter Project

that would be the Alpha SS

however plenty of people on screamandfly.com are running about 450-500 hp thru alphas. synthetic oil, drive showers, and easy holeshots will keep them alive. its the holeshot that will kill the drive

here is a performance Alpha drive that will handle 650hp http://www.rlcboats.com/

(looks familiar doesnt it.... )