Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

[zool]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

The tank doesnt look all that bad Ted, hopefully you can save it....and some bux in the process!

The drainway underneath is pretty much how mine can from the MFG, except no foam, but a series of plug holes in the bulkheads with removable plugs...basically i can drain water from the bow bilges to the engine bay, on demand.

Good Progress!

 

[alldodge]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

My opinion not based on analysis:
The tank was originally designed and installed with foam all areas of the bottom and sides. This original design from my assumption was for strength and over all performance. My thought is what could the issues be if support was reduced and air moisture allowed to enter freely in the cavity?

Exposing the bottom of the tank will allow water, moisture and air to transfer but I think this could result in it's own set of issues/problems later. The space can allow moisture to reside and the next thing mold could start. Could change in temps create other issues with expansion and contraction of the foam. Without having full support across the entire bottom of the tank cause flex in the fuel tank from bouncing through waves.

In the start of this thread it was my understanding that the water was coming from the bow area. This area allowed water to enter from around the water tank. If this is where it came from then maybe just need more attention paid to how to stop it. Your 242 tank fix with the pipe running through would appear to be a better method for transferring moisture which may arise. A similar method of using a perforated pipe may be a thought

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

My opinion not based on analysis:
The tank was originally designed and installed with foam all areas of the bottom and sides. This original design from my assumption was for strength and over all performance. My thought is what could the issues be if support was reduced and air moisture allowed to enter freely in the cavity?

Exposing the bottom of the tank will allow water, moisture and air to transfer but I think this could result in it's own set of issues/problems later. The space can allow moisture to reside and the next thing mold could start. Could change in temps create other issues with expansion and contraction of the foam. Without having full support across the entire bottom of the tank cause flex in the fuel tank from bouncing through waves.

In the start of this thread it was my understanding that the water was coming from the bow area. This area allowed water to enter from around the water tank. If this is where it came from then maybe just need more attention paid to how to stop it. Your 242 tank fix with the pipe running through would appear to be a better method for transferring moisture which may arise. A similar method of using a perforated pipe may be a thought

Actually, the water tank in the bow is an isolated issue and not related to the main bulkhead moisture, nor the foam/tank issues. There is a forward bulkhead that was soaked from the water tank compartment holding water caused by a hole in the anchor locker. That may be what you are recalling. That whole issue was quickly resolved and the forward bulkhead dried out within a few weeks time.

I am not getting any water to the fuel bay from the forward tank. The water in the fuel bay is getting created within the fuel bay from condensation. The fact that the tank separated from the foam created places for moisture to accumulate and migrate into the foam. . . as best as I can tell.

However, your points are well taken. :thumb: Having an air channel may lead to a new set of problems. I may re-think the design and go with just a thru-hull pipe that can collect any water that migrates into the foam and then make a 'mini-bilge' to isolate it from the main bilge.

I am thinking that any tank installation that does not use foam would tend to have similar issues of dampness, mold, etc. So, I am wondering if anyone has any input from the non-foam perspective?

 

[zool]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I am thinking that any tank installation that does not use foam would tend to have similar issues of dampness, mold, etc. So, I am wondering if anyone has any input from the non-foam perspective?

Well, my perspective is, my tank was 25+ years old and not really cared for, and still went back in service, no foam at all, no pretective paint from the MFG, just neoprene to keep it elevated.

Yours is 17+ years old, probably better cared for, and may or may not go back in service...painted and foamed in....

I dont think one can draw any conclusive results based on foam or not.

Now that I have it epoxy filled and coated with the moisture cure paint, virtualy cutting off any air to assist in future corrosion, I had no issues putting it back the same way.....I did add strenghtening to the hull bones, but mostly for the higher torque of the v8's, and not because of lack of foam.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

PLAN "B" for the TANK INSTALLATION:

As an alternative to the air channel, I was also thinking about just having a perforated pipe/tube along the keel in the last few feet of the foam and then have it be a thru-hull (actually thru-bulkhead) into its own mini bilge. To AllDodge's point in the post above, it may be simpler and provide good results.

Here are a couple of diagrams of that plan/design . . .


Main Bilge would be here



Forward Bulkhead is here

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cross Section at the Aft End . . .



My main goal is to provide any water that migrates into the foam an escape route.

One additional thing that I did on my 242 tank installation was to coat the trimmed foam around the top of the tank with a heavy layer of polyurethane paint. My thought was that it would create an additional barrier from condensation to work its way into the foam. Sort of like a moisture barrier on a house. So, I may do the same here.

Additional comments and thoughts welcome on either of these installation approaches. TIA

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Update - Next steps:

I might get a chance to work on the boat this weekend, with the Monday (President's Day) holiday.

But . . . not sure . . . life in general has been crazy this past couple of weeks, so I'm not sure I'll have time. . . Work has been crazy busy, trying to get a new web site completed . . . My youngest kid has been traveling coast to coast these past few weeks for grad school interviews, and we have been dodging the snow storms with flight bookings, etc :smow: . . . the other night my Dad fell at the assisted living home and I spent the night in the Emergency Room with him; after 4 hours of tests, etc, they said everything was 'normal'. :fatigue: :juggle:

Next steps would be to:

1) clean & inspect the fuel tank - I think there is about 1 gallon +/- of fuel still in it that could not be pumped out. I should probably purge the tank to get rid of the remaining fuel / fumes, etc. and then do an internal inspection of the tank with my 'borescope/inspection camera.

2) remove all of the remaining foam from the fuel bay and get a look at the darkened areas that are starting into the main stringers. I think that I will need to 'inject' some wood 'chemotherapy' into the stringer/bulkhead joints to stop the progression.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Well, according to the weather services, Cape Cod got a a fair amount of snow last night. I'm not sure, since I am in Providence this morning. (Hey Tazrig, if you are reading this, post or send me a PM with snow depths)

My kid's flight got cancelled due to the storm. . . . we managed to get a flight out of Boston later today. Of course this is a peak travel period, given that many of the schools have the week off, so lots of folks traveling on vacation etc. The many flight cancellations have made it an even bigger mess.

If I can get to work on the boat tomorrow (President's Day), I'll probably have a foot of new snow to clear off. Just hope the tarp is holding up . . .

 

[alldodge]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

MA and the north east coast is getting hammered again. Sure was glad to get away from NJ for this type of an issue. Hope your tarp doesn't give out, that would be another mess

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I did some more work on the boat today - President's Day . . .

The snow on Cape Cod was fairly heavy and some had accumulated on the tarp.


However, the tarp and frame held up, so I was able to clear it off.

I lowered the tank from the boat . . . gravity did a pretty good job and the snow made for a soft landing.


I set the tank up on a couple of saw horses and drained off the residual fuel, the best I could.


There were a dozen (or so) pitted areas along the belly of the tank. The depth to 'clean metal' was about 1 mm, maybe 1.5 mm at the worst case. The tank itself is 5 mm thick (0.190"), so generally the pits are 20-30% of the thickness. Once the depth of the pits approach 50%, then it is time to consider a new tank or welding repair. (IMHO)

I removed the remaining foam, mostly stuck to the forward face of the tank, and then gave the tank a sanding. I will probably have to use some paint remover to get down to bare metal in all areas of the tank.

Then, I took a look in the fuel bay and started to remove the foam.. Since it was only about 20 degrees F outside, much of the saturated foam towards the rear of the fuel bay was frozen. So, I worked on the forward area and exposed the forward bulkhead. The forward bulkhead had moisture beginning to penetrate from the middle. So, I will want to apply some corrective measures to this bulkhead as well. I could treat it with EG or perhaps replace it, same as the rear bulkhead.


I'll have to give it some thought . . . my inclination is to get it to dry out (since it has a fair amount of bare wood surface), then treat it with EG. . . allow it to absorb/dry out, then glass over it. Anyway, if I get a big enough piece of plywood, then I could replace both bulkheads.

So, as these sorts of projects unfold, this is now the second 'surprise' that I have encountered. The project started out with the intention of replacing the firewall bulkhead . . . quickly expanded to re-installing the fuel tank . . . and now potentially replacing the forward bulkhead. No more surprises would be good.

Here is a video of the day as well:

It will be a couple of weeks until I can do some more work on the boat. Hopefully the weather will start to let up, making things a bit easier.

 

[zool]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Now thats perseverance ted!!...youre a brave soul out there in this weather scraping foam!...Glad to see the tank is a keeper!

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Now thats perseverance ted!!...youre a brave soul out there in this weather scraping foam!...Glad to see the tank is a keeper!

Yup, I got to make progress on the demolition work now, so that I have enough time to put everything back together in the April-May time frame. Of course this coming weekend, it is supposed to be warm, but I'll be away skiing. So, I got to get some days of work in when I can. :thumb:

 

[bvetter]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Looks to me like you have a lot more snow than us here in central Saskatchewan! It's too bad you don't have a shop big enough for that beast you're working on!

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I did some more work on the boat today - President's Day . . .

The snow on Cape Cod was fairly heavy and some had accumulated on the tarp.

However, the tarp and frame held up, so I was able to clear it off.

tee hee hee..

You have a big green monster in front of your garage.. Aside from the color difference it looks very familiar to my driveway.. (my monstrosity is black.. well, white right now..) Good to hear its holding up for ya, and I hope there are no more surprises to be found.. you never know what you are gona get into when you tear into an old boat right? :laugh:

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Good to hear its holding up for ya, and I hope there are no more surprises to be found.. you never know what you are gona get into when you tear into an old boat right? :laugh:

Yea, the green tarp sort of blends into the landscape, so it is not obtrusive to the neighbors, etc. Probably gonna need a new tarp in the next year or two, though.

No more surprises would be good . . . I am still contemplating whether to dry/treat the forward bulkhead or replace it. My concern is that I will only be able to get at the center section of it (similar to what I am doing with the rear bulkhead) if I cut it out and replace it. Bonding strength would be a concern with putting in a new section. The rear bulkhead is in a better situation, since the rear bulkhead is fully exposed to the engine room. Not the case with the forward bulkhead.

I'll probably take a closer look at the structure in that area next time I work on the boat . . . stay tuned.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

No more surprises would be good . . . I am still contemplating whether to dry/treat the forward bulkhead or replace it. My concern is that I will only be able to get at the center section of it (similar to what I am doing with the rear bulkhead) if I cut it out and replace it. Bonding strength would be a concern with putting in a new section. The rear bulkhead is in a better situation, since the rear bulkhead is fully exposed to the engine room. Not the case with the forward bulkhead.

I'll probably take a closer look at the structure in that area next time I work on the boat . . . stay tuned.

Of course, now that I am thinking about the forward bulkhead . . . there is the possibility that the moisture could be coming from the cabin sole area, as there is some structure and foam along with a mini bilge just forward of this bulkhead (fuel bay forward bulkhead).

I have some pictures of the structure in that area, so I will have to to review them to see about the possibilities. Also, if I were to remove/replace the forward bulkhead, then I would need to dig into the cabin sole in that area in order to tab in ta new bulkhead section :facepalm:

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

soon you will be laying a new keel.....

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I would just treat the discoloration with hydrogen peroxide (full strength). let it soak in and kill any mold, dry a bit, then rinse with EG and let dry. then glass over it.

 

[alldodge]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Doing a great job but where do you stop. You get it all done and it will be better then original. How long do you plan on keeping this one? There is no doubt you will fix this one so it will need nothing else, then what will you do when your bored, maybe buy another

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Thanks for the comments and encouragement, guys. . .

Hydrogen Peroxide . . . I had not considered using that, but will include it in the arsenal of rot fighting chemicals . . . I have considered bleach and ethylene glycol up to this point.

I plan on keeping the boat as long as possible. So, that may be 10 years, it is hard to tell. Boats never seem to be scarce of repair and upkeep work that needs to be done, So, I am not worried about being bored.

If I were ever to get the time and motivation, I'd like to get an F-336 and do a major cockpit/seating alteration so as to get more people capacity. Being in an area with rough waters, I tend to favor the Deep-V hulls (like 24 degrees). . . but to get those, you have to get a Go-Fast boat and those have limited seating. Doing an alteration on a 336 might be a nice combination of rough water agility and people capacity.

Otherwise, I would probably keep the 330SS and get an F-292 Fastec for the rougher days.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

bleach wont kill the root of the fungi in wood. hydrogen peroxide and pure ammonia will, however pure ammonia will kill you.

if your only keeping the boat for 10 years, I wouldnt even touch the discolored bulkhead other than injecting with EG thru a syringe and calling it a day.