Bush's unity speech

[txswinner]

Re: Bush's unity speech

Rod and LFK you kill me, you want a plan? I would go along with most anything at this point except staying the course. My thoughts

BRING THE TROOPS HOME

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Bush's unity speech

TXswinner
nothing I would like to see more than bring the troops home, however in the past 5 years we have muffed it up so bad that to simply leave would turn that reagion into a much larger killing field.
if we stay with the current troop levels and stratagy it will still be a killing field just prolonged for 5-10 years.
we were warned by various generals and even colin powell about a plan with no objective,no stratagy and not enough troops or equipment. so far every warning has been borne out in blood.
so far the only head rolled was michial browns. other than the heads that warned of rummy's plan.
I would have backed a plan for 450K troops to take out the house of saud, no worries. thats were the majority of the terror starts and is financed.
saddam was a two bit thug who like to rattle sabers occasionally but had absolutly no control of anyone or events outside his borders.
instead of whining about pakistan not securing the afghan borders why not drop in another 150K troops and secure it ourselves from the afghan side?
get caught on the afghan side and ya get shot.
no worries.
however I dont think our war planners wish to actually win this.
it would take away the power to try to scare the sheeples.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Bush's unity speech

OK you folks with W win. If we win in Iraq we win the war on Terrorism and America will be safe.

I got the plan. Pull out our troops to the border and allow none to leave. Drop enough munitions to wipe out the entire population. Simple, war over, no more terrorist and we can live happily ever after.

BRING HOME THE TROOPS

 

[PW2]

Re: Bush's unity speech

well I finally broke down and read the whole speech, did not see much political pandering like all the media has hollered.
about all I say was a few paragraphs spinning the same stay the course spin he has belched for 5 years.
but stop and take a look at the results of the past 5 years, we dont need to stay this course.
we either need to place enough boots and equipment in place to finnish the job,no matter why we got there, or pull out,sell arms to all sides and bomb the winner.

Rodbolt,

The "political pandering" is in the mentioning of Iraq in the first place. There's hardly a more contentious issue in this political season than how to proceed in Iraq. Top that off with the administration's incessant linking of 9/11 with Iraq, even though they finally acknowledged that Iraq had nothing whatever to do with 9/11.

It was billed as a "unity" speech, to commemorate 9/11, and it could have and should have been just that.

Obviously, Bush has the right to trumpet Iraq in this political season, and I'm sure he will time and again. But that is a political position. This was billed as a non-political "unity speech" That is why I suggested he was asking us to" put aside our differences, agree with him, and vote Republican"

How else could you possible interpret at least the Iraq portion of that?

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Bush's unity speech

Did you ever think that "Stay the course" means we have to stay until the job is done? Not we are going to do everything exactly the way were are doing it now?

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Bush's unity speech

wow erick is under the total influence of the koolaide. while erik is there maybe he can explain:job is done" and who it got done against?
or maybe why we attacked Iraq and not saudi arabia?
man I wished I hads as mooch edukayshun as ole erick.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Bush's unity speech

wow erick is under the total influence of the koolaide. while erik is there maybe he can explain:job is done" and who it got done against?
or maybe why we attacked Iraq and not saudi arabia?
man I wished I hads as mooch edukayshun as ole erick.

OK I'll bite, but I must have picked up your glass by mistake..Ohh Yeah!

Job is done: This has been covered many times, so put down your glass and take off your rose colored glasses and let's see if you can understand it this time, ok?

Gov't is stable and can defend itself in Iraq, got it? OK, let's move on, ok? Or do I need to repeat it again for you? Now put down that glass and listen, ok?

This answers question 1 +2, ok? Got it. glass still down? Good!

My opinon is that he defied, what 17 UN resolutions and the no fly zone, so he needed to be taught a lesson. The UN and Congress said that as well. Think he got the idea that Moscow didn't help him? As far as WMD's didn't Moscow, Israel,Eyqpt and Jordon say he had them ? OK, bad intel, maybe, time will tell.
Now pick up your glass and finish your KoolAid and sleep tight.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Bush's unity speech

Eric, don't sweat it. 18 days ago I asked anyone to provide one positive statement from a liberal democrat regarding the actions or achievements of our troops. (The ones they claim to support). I have pointed to numerous hachet jobs by liberal democrats underminding our troops. So while some are concerned with a sentence they don't like, they can't find one kind word for our troops, the troops they claim to support, not one message of encouragement while at the same time crying for unifying message. I guess calling our troops Nazis inspires some, but just for the wrong reasons.

Still waiting.:^

 

[Plainsman]

Re: Bush's unity speech

Pointer, Maybe they will answer your questions on Air America?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Bush's unity speech

Why report something positive when there isn't?....
They are getting enough smoke blown up there arses by IED's & this administations ambiguous strategy & supposed goals......
Do you really think that the guy in the field gives a rat arse if Hillary says "Good job Boys"?
Or if Richard does?
They are reaping the cost of an ill planned incursion......
THey have my sympathy, I hope that they all come home.....JK

 

[PW2]

Re: Bush's unity speech

Gov't is stable and can defend itself in Iraq, got it? OK, let's move on, ok? Or do I need to repeat it again for you? Now put down that glass and listen, ok?



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Nopw that's a noble goal, i 'm sure. It's about as achievable, or controllable, by our military as the goal of "Peace on Earth" is.

You're willing to let the fate of 130k US troops rest in the hands of a few Iraqi politicians? There the only ones that will ever determine whether Iraq will be stable and what form it will take.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Bush's unity speech

That my friend is the exact problem, the troops don't want your sympathy, they need your support. Where is your unifying message?

 

[12Footer]

Re: Bush's unity speech

zacly!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Bush's unity speech

what ???
Iraq can defend and support itself?
if it can that means mission is actually accomplished and Bush will be on another aircract carrier photo op.
however,sadly, the field commander for the anbar province just last week said it was a lost cause due to lack of troops and "whack-a-mole" type fighting.
in the time from 9/11 01 to april of 03 Bush and co had enough domestic and world support to use 350K plus troops.
the only way it would happen now is to reinstate the draft, with Bush as a lame duck that just aint gonna happen.
how many congressmen or senators would commit political suicde by voting FOR a draft reinstatement this year?
but without a couple hundred tousand more boots in Iraq and Afghanistan we cannot sustain what victories we have achieved.
most the field commanders have their hands tied, they know that publically rummy and Bush have stated if they need more all they have to do is ask. however those that asked early got canned.
those that are left are not going to toss 20+ years and a career bucking a system that cannot be bucked.
just as christianity has many many sects so does islam.
not all agree.
just as christians have gone to war with christians over the past 2000 years Islamists dont mind going to war with each other.
seems Ireland in recent history had an issue with christians killing christians,or has that been forgotten?
General Paige,I belive, said last week that most the Iraqi police force was Shiat'e death squads in police uniforms and most the Iraqi troops still cannot fight without extensive US backup.
some divisions actually refused to fight in certain areas.
if you listen to tony snow its all roses,if you try to listen to the field commanders its not quite so rosy.
history will bear out the fact that to conquer you MUST occupy and if you cannot occupy you lose.
so its mostly down to the point of 3 options.
pull out and watch the flames.
continue with current troop levels and equipment expenditures for 5-10 years.
add another 250K troops in Iraq and 150K in afghanistan and secure the borders of those countries while mopping up any terror cells and insurgents.
the only way to secure the borders in Iraq and afghanistan is from the Iraqi and afghan sides.
the other border countries are to sympathetic and corrupt to secure it for us.
there again rummy and bush were warned that border security was tantamount in the opening days and if not secured it would lead to exactly what we have now.
they chose the 3 week liberator plan and wont quit.
so I see it,based on field commander reports to the IG and pentagon as the above 3 options.
which is best and which will Bush and co choose?
we let Osama go due to lack of troops for border patrol.
heck we cannot even control US borders why ya think we could in a far away place?

 

[LFK]

Re: Bush's unity speech

zacly!

(With two thumbs-up even!)

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Bush's unity speech

Stunning post. We got the draft reintroduced, blamed christians, gave three lose/lose options and presented as if they are the only options - which they are not, and blamed Bush for it all.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Bush's unity speech

ok pointer what do you see as an option in the Iraq and afghan theatre.
we already know that local border nations are nopt an option.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Bush's unity speech

zacly!

(With two thumbs-up even!)

Oh please, let's DO derail this topic to the subject of torture!! LETS!!!!

 

[12Footer]

Re: Bush's unity speech

It's nice to know you can count to two...
Now... count THESE thumbs, LFK!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Bush's unity speech

no torture pics.
wasnt me, this was about unity and why it can or cannot happen with the current policies and stratagy.
its not working according to those in the field.
according to those generals in the field it ranges from grim to doom.
seems quite a bit of the early sucesss's are unraveling to to lack of boots and equipment.
just as all were warned.
I see a lot of comparisions to previous wars, in most previous wars we actually had a goal and a govt that could surrender to the US,
in this war we are fighting 6 or more loosly affiliated tribes and at least 3 religious factions that the only thing they hate worse than each other is the west.
had 450K troops entered Iraq in 03 and set up border security to dissalow any forign influence it could have worked. the 3 week liberator plan was a joke then and a sad footnote now.

the way I see it those 3 options are about all thats left.
we have already found out there is NO country in that reagion we can trust,even Isreal is not completly trustworthy as their goals and strategic objectives are a bit different than US objectives and they would cut our nut sack to accomplish their objectives over ours.
they, as the rest, will have to live there long after we are gone and they know it.
so as far as unity this administration has created more division that cohesion in the past 5 years.
the questions as to why the US went into Iraq and not an actual terror stte will be bantered for many years,its a moot point.
the question now is how to extricate the US from the quagmire its turned into.
and by extricate I do not advocate a simple withdraw.
I refer to how to unmess the mess the war planners surrepticiously got us into with their arrogance,overconfidence and lack of understanding the "enemy".