Big wooden boat project [Splashed Sept 2017]

[bobkat1864]

No Title

 

[bobkat1864]

Can you guys see that pic? I got an ap that lets me shrink the file size...these iPhones use massive file sizes these days.

 

[Mikeopsycho]

Yup, I can see it, but have to click on it to enlarge it. Nice boat!

 

[bobkat1864]

Thanks Mike...a friend of mine traded a smaller boat for her, and invited me to partner up with him to get her water ready...he is more of a boat trader, and I'm more the mechanic. When he moved, I got full custody. Too bad our boating season here in NE Ohio is so short, but having quick access to Lake Erie kinda makes up for that.

 

[proshadetree]

Looks like wood boats are more common north of me. I love the lines on it. It seems impossible to build curves like that from wood.

 

[Guest]

Quick Question Ned, Regarding your Freshwater cooling, I think you have this already covered from what I saw in the photos, but I'm going to ask anyway:

Those Crusader heat exchangers are sized for a V-8, since the water jackets are smaller in the Crowns, did you install a valve (to regulate the flow) on the return side of the heat exchangers?

I'm assuming your engine's normal operating temperature is about 160 F, I've seen heat exchangers cool the freshwater side of the engine engine too much, but mitigate this problem using an in-line valve to regulate/restrict the flow through the engine to get the temperature up to where it needs to be.

I grew up on a 30 ft (wooden) Lobster boat in MA, Dad had a marinized Ford truck engine with FWC, with a heat exchanger from a much larger engine. It ran too cold until we installed a valve on the return loop back to the engine, slowing the flow of the coolant in the water jacket to bring the temp up.

When I saw your set up, I thought of this, one picture looks like you have a valve installed freshwater loop, but I can't be sure.

I'm just trying to alleviate another headache for you, if you get her out there and she's only running 130 degrees.

 

[Ned L]

Quick Question Ned, Regarding your Freshwater cooling, I think you have this already covered from what I saw in the photos, but I'm going to ask anyway:

Those Crusader heat exchangers are sized for a V-8, since the water jackets are smaller in the Crowns, did you install a valve (to regulate the flow) on the return side of the heat exchangers?

I'm assuming your engine's normal operating temperature is about 160 F, I've seen heat exchangers cool the freshwater side of the engine engine too much, but mitigate this problem using an in-line valve to regulate/restrict the flow through the engine to get the temperature up to where it needs to be.

I grew up on a 30 ft (wooden) Lobster boat in MA, Dad had a marinized Ford truck engine with FWC, with a heat exchanger from a much larger engine. It ran too cold until we installed a valve on the return loop back to the engine, slowing the flow of the coolant in the water jacket to bring the temp up.

When I saw your set up, I thought of this, one picture looks like you have a valve installed freshwater loop, but I can't be sure.

I'm just trying to alleviate another headache for you, if you get her out there and she's only running 130 degrees.

Thank you for the question and concern. Actually I hadn?t covered this aspect of the conversion, and that is a good question. Quite frankly, my setup will probably require a bit of tweeking once I get her on the water and see how things go.
On a marine engine there really isn?t a condition where a heat exchanger can be ?to big?. Ideally the raw water side of the system should be nice and cold (sea water temp being the as cold as it could get). The thermostatic temperature control is on the ?fresh water? side of the engine, therefore the raw water side can be almost any temperature, and the thermostat in the engine will keep the engine at (whatever) temperature (about 190?F for modern engines). There is typically some sort of a bypass on the freshwater side to help bring the engine up to temperature quickly and then regulate the temperature at a constant temperature.
With the above in mind I will admit that what I have done is not really a correct setup. (I actually got a bit ahead of my thinking as I progressed with the plumbing.) The heat exchangers that I have (being off V8?s) have two fresh water returns (one for each head). I plumbed both sides of the thermostat housing (main return and bypass) directly to the two returns on the heat exchanger. This in effect with provide maximum cooling all the time. I should have plumbed the main return from the thermostat housing back to the heat exchanger, plumbed the bypass line from the thermostat housing to the intake side of the fresh water cooling pump, and capped off the other return on the heat exchanger.
The only down side to what I did is (as you pointed out) that the engines will run cool. My thought has been that I would rather start out with them running cool, then once I know where I am I will change things to run warmer.
Considering these are 60 year old engines that have never seen more than about 140? (typical raw water temperature) I don?t think I really want to start running them at 190? . I am thinking maybe about 160? will be good. I really don?t even know if the thermostats are working or not. I have done some looking and don?t know if I can even find new thermostats (160?) so I may have to do away with the thermostats and go with bypass valves (also as you pointed out). (I did install the valves, but as mentioned above they really won?t do anything exactly where they are.)
I hope I explained this reasonably, and again Thank you for taking the time to look at what I have done, figure out what I was up to, and ask questions. ? Yep, Its going to be testing and tweeking for a while, but I would rather start out on the cool side than on the hot side. (Been there, done that, ? open the throttle and a couple of minutes later things are overheating, so you have to slow down until the temp comes down. Not nearly as much fun.)

 

[hvymtl939]

I just wanted to say I have gotten NOTHING done at work today because of this thread. Incredible work!! Can't wait to see this gorgeous vessel on the water.

 

[Ned L]

As I mentioned at the beginning of the year, I have gotten into the last 'major' project for this rebuild (or at least I hope the last, there's not much that hasn't been touched. lol)
I fully expected rebuilding the cockpit sole to have some 'project creep' associated with it, but I guess I hadn't put the pieces of what I was aware of all together in my head. When the cockpit sole is up is the only time to address any and all issues that literally are under it.

Starting with a teak sole that was dirty, but otherwise not to bad looking, ..........

I first had to remove the teak 'baseboard' in the wheelhouse area to disassemble the 'step' up from the cockpit to the wheelhouse. (That step was built on top of the cockpit sole planking.)

This also meant that the engine hatches had to actually removed.

Here is the view looking aft with that step up removed.

Then as I removed teak 'baseboard' around the perimeter of the cockpit I found (for a variety of reasons) I had to remove the white panel on the inside of he transom. .......... As I had expected, it too used to be varnished and had only recently been painted out.

That will be going back to brightwork......

With all the perimeter 'stuff' out of the way I could finally start carefully removing the teak planking.

Getting sort of nasty looking???

Some things were better than I had expected (this is the top of one of the deck beams that the teak sole is laid on.

As more came up there was more good, and not so good. This is the top of the port fuel tank (monel).

When I had all the teak removed I then drew out and measured all the framing (had to match the new framing to the screw holes and hatch openings in the old teak.

Things looked pretty different to say the least!

Next it was time to lift out the 60 gallon tanks. Here they are stacked on top of each other.

And taking them out of the boat.

Pretty much everything is out now, and I can start assessing exactly what needs to be done and start moving forward.

Here you can see a plank that was replaced decades ago and a number of sister ribs that were put in at that time (they are still in good condition).

Considering there will never be access like this again I will basically re-rib the boat from the engines aft at the turn of the bilge (from about 18" above the chine to about the same below the chine with steam bent white oak, scarfed into the original ribs. I will probably double up on the ribs in the section of the hull that will be lifted by travel lift (that is rough on wooden boats). This means that she will have ribs at the turn of the bilge about every 3 1/2".

this is where we are now.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Glad to see more updates, and most of all the pictures and explanations!! Love it!! :joyous:

 

[kcassells]

Very awesome and thank you for the details.

 

[Woodonglass]

Talk about a "GUT" job!!!! But Man for a wood working enthusiast what a blast it would be!!!!

 

[sphelps]

Probably is a good feeling to be able to inspect every piece of wood under the sole ...
So the extra ribs will be placed right where the straps on the lift will be ?
This may be a dumb question but when you remove the old varnish to prep for the bright work are you just sanding it off or is there some type of stripper that is used ...

 

[Guest]

If those tanks are kind of spongy on the bottom, there's an outfit in New Jersey - Mid Atlantic Welding - www.speedytanks.com, which will duplicate those tanks for you at a fair price.

Both of the belly tanks in my 72 and 74 Hiliners were bad. I merely sketched out and dimensioned each tank, dimensionally located where the suction and vent pick ups were, and they took in from there. (Baffles, fuel sender boss, etc.) Turn around time is good too.

They are a good resource Ned, to keep in mind.

On the cooling issue, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think those old Crowns even came with thermostats did they?.

Coincidentally, Dad's Lobster boat (built in 1949) still had her original Chrysler Crown installed when he bought it (in 1969), but it looked no where near the great shape your engines do. That model was almost 10 years older than what you have, as a kid, I remember the name "Spitfire" was cast into the cylinder head of the engine..

We got one season out of the old girl until the main bearings went out (at sea, of course) and we had to be towed in, That's when the Ford 6 cyl engine with FWC replaced it.

 

[proshadetree]

Ok that just scared me. But judging from your other work it is just another day in the office for you. I can make anything out of fiberglass but wood is a whole new world. Great update and education on your cooling system.

 

[Ned L]

With the worst of the cold weather behind us (hopefully) I pulled out some white oak and ripped it for some new ribs.

I will not be sistering the ribs. (Sister ribs are secondary ribs put in place right next to the original (usually cracked) ribs to fix broken / cracked ribs. ). A concern with sister ribs is that it leaves a spot where the sisters are then prone to cracking (twice the strength everywhere except where the original rib cracked, thus a remaining weaker point.
I will be bending in short sections of ribs next to the original cracked / problem ones (just like sisters). Then I will go back and cut out the bad sections of the original ribs, with 'longish' tapers at the end. Next I will cut matching tapers on the new rib sections and glue/screw them to the originals and rivet them though the planking. When finished it will all look original, and won't have that weak link.
I also plan on bending in some short in-between ribs at the turn of the bilge for extra strength in the area where the travel lift straps will be lifting her. -- Lapstake boats can tend to be like flexible peach baskets and I think a bit of extra stiffness in that area will help her when she is picked up.


Next it was time to pull out the steam box and steam boiler (guts out of our old oil fired hot air furnace from the house, with a recycled propane tank.) Unfortunately after 15 years the bottom of the propane tank finally rusted out. When I went to see if I could get a replacement at our town's transfer station I was told it is illegal for them to let one go, liability and all. ........ grrrr.. OK, so that meant pulling out the welder and welding a patch into the bottom of the tank. Lots of fun chasing holes in rusty sheet metal to make it water tight. I finally got there.

So here is the steam box and boiler.

I made up and screwed in place lots of these little cleats (simple block of wood and a drywall screw) so that when I bend in the new ribs I can hold them down with the cleats.

Rather sloppy looking I suppose, but here are most of the ribs for one side of the boat bent in place.

the ribs are 1" thick x 1 3/4" wide. They get steamed for an hour, then you have all of about 30 seconds between pulling them form the steam box to getting to stiff to move much more. --- Fast work.

 

[nurseman]

Have you ever considered steaming them in a plastic bag right in the boat? Might make it less hectic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RORoex0TTfY

 

[Ned L]

Though I have never tried that I am familiar with steaming in a bag.
That probably would make things less hectic. Quite frankly I never even gave it a thought. I guess I already have the stem box, and need to figure out where to get the bag material.
Thank you, I need to keep it in mind.

 

[nurseman]

I have seen where you take 6 mL poly and use a propane torch to melt the edges together to seal the bag. That guy that I posted a link to for the bag steaming has another video somewhere on making your own bag like that.

I have done seam bending also, so I know how short a time you have to work with the material before it gets too cooled off. At any rate, looking top notch as usual!

 

[notlef]

Love this thread! Great work Ned.