'73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

[jbcurt00]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Looks like the weld has been there a while, so if it's a sound weld, and doesn't leak, I don't think I'd be overly concerned. Just make not of it & try to monitor the area on both sides of the aluminum hull. If a problem arises, it can be dealt w/.

The HD/Lowes pink, green or blue rigid foam board doesn't degrade under normal use & conditions, including water contact.

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Hey Sauce,
here are some pics to gander at. my boat has the outer wooden transom/engine plate too. I believe it is there because the inner transom is so short, about 9" tall. the lower bolts on a 40+hp motor are below this and I would guess the outer piece is there for support of these larger engines. mine has a 35 and the bolts go through the inner. The larger motor mount holes are below the inner transom. Please understand that I am just giving you my opinion from what I have seen on my boat. mine happens to be a crestliner like yours and I am only giving you things to look for. Our boats seem to be assembled in a similar manner. yours is larger and 4 yrs older but It sure looks the same. I even have the same tie down rings.

I could be wrong and I hope I am. I have only ever worked on my boat but mine is an aluminum Crestliner that looks to be built in a similar fashion. these pics will give you an idea of where I'm coming from. take a look at these pics and compare to your boat. look for signs of hacking.
here are a few pics I dug up for you. this is my transom sleeve? the transom sat in there


this was a leak check but you can see the transom track with the two holes for the tie down ring. to the right of that is a smaller hole. this was originally through the bottom corner of the transom about a 1/4" away from the end and was a bolt. there were two a side. top and bottom of the transom. I think they were to hold the transom and two pieces of metal together at the ends. if you have these bolts or bolt holes in your hull you can measure them and add a 1/2" or so to get your measurement for a new trans. I can take a pic or two of the back of my boat tomorrow and show you where the bolts are. they are roughly 5" apart and the lower hole is about 6" outward from the bottom ring hole

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

I used the weights to hold the pieces down until the pl was dry. I used PL 8X construction adhesive to glue them all together everything else I tried disintegrated the foam on contact. the foam is a closed cell product which means it will never retain water or so they say. a lot of people here have used it and after pulling about 300lbs of soaked pour foam out of my boat I couldn't put the same stuff back. I added a ton of weight with the 5/8" ply. OEM for all interior wood and even floors was particle board coated on one side with some black stuff. first floor rotted through when the boat was three yrs old. the boat is 5 mph faster then I ever remeber and sits in the water with the chines exposed. I have some photos of it the day my dad bought it in 77 and I think it sits higher in the water now. outer trans is above the water line too. Did I have photos of the main body of the boat with flotation? I stacked the foam upright in each box structure. I will post some tomorrow if not. I would say I have a good 50% more flotation in it than AMF did. the foam is real easy to work with too. a razor knife and a sheetrock T-square; score it about half way through and snap it like sheet rock. worked out real well. The front was the time consumer but I wanted each layer to fit as tight as possible.

I used epoxy resin from a non iboats supplier for all my wood including the outer transom. was easy to apply and didn't stink up the house. my garage is under the house. I think three coats but I'm fuzzy on that. think I did the outer trans a few more coats. I still have a full gallon and a bit in the first gal as well as the hardener if anyone wants. bought the pumps too. I think they said the stuff was good for two years after purchase. have it stored in the box in my basement which never gets above 60 or below 50. You could probably do all or most of your wood with what I have if you want to pay shipping. I'll post pics. of the epoxied wood too if you'd like. let me check the suppliers web site to make sure this stuff is still good as well.

 

[TheSauce]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Yeah our boats a similar - but they seemed to have been experimenting on 'better' ideas for a drainage channel for runoff water with your boat. I guess its a hard thing to do in a way.

I'll have to price out the closed cell foam sheets, not sure if I can return this pour in or not - Id also like to avoid it due to this removal - and I think If i put it in, Ill end up selling this boat rather than keeping it.

As far as the resin I'll let you know tomorrow, and thanks for all the pics and help. Looks like you did a great job on such a similar boat so the input is invaluable. Still a little foggy on removal of old transom - I remove the aluminum plate, then i need to cut the splash well put a new one in?

 

[TheSauce]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Judging by these shots and your photos, I think you're right. I'll check tomorrow. Can I just try to remove the bracket and make a transom that fits the shape of the back of the boat? or is that an awful idea.








so then my understanding as best as i can explain and paint :lol:

so the green is where i would need to make cuts in the 'cap'? 'splash well'? to remove old transom and put the new one in

the gold is the exterior ply id be replacing

the red is the interior transom - now I have some questions here.
1. is it possible to remove the bracket and reposition it? (does it involve alot of through hull drilling, or rivet removal)
2. assuming it is possible to move the bracket, cant I just extend the transom to contour almost the entire aluminum stern wall? (leaving a gap for water to gather down there and now rest against the wood)
3.assuming i can extend the interior transom, should i still put the exterior ply?

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Hey Sauce,

just checked the web site for the resin and they recommend using the stuff within a yr of purchase which is around now. they do say it will last a lot longer the way I stored it but if I were you I wouldn't want to take the chance. I'd feel horrible if the stuff mucked up your work. I guess I should have offered the stuff to someone earlier.

I think if you have the foam, use it. why spend more. I used the sheets because they where cheaper, easier to install, and the water issue. Don't get me wrong. the pour in foam isn't going to start collecting water the day after you install it. over time it starts to break down. If you do a good job of keeping all water out of your boat you will never have to worry about the foam. I left my boat in the water for 30 yrs with a leaky tarp. the boat was 4 hrs away so It sometimes sat for weeks getting rained on. I think this is the scenario for foam water logging, water sitting in the hull for extended periods of time. You should have no problem if your trailering it. I will warn you that if your hull is similar to mine that water collects in the hull just after the floor starts to flatten out. for me that spot was about where my seats were. The v-hull is lower there than the rest of he boat when the bottom flattens. whenever you take the boat out of the water I would recommend finding a hill to pull up and drain all water out. I extend the jack all the way on top of a spackle bucket. really point the nose into the air.

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Hey Sauce,

To remove your transom you will have to take off that anodized cap (u-shaped) piece of trim. it might be small enough to just pull out without further demo. Mine was the length of the boat so I had to pull out the side pieces of my splash well. It will become clearer to you once that piece of trim is off. just get that trim off and take a look. there might be a few bolts holding it in but that's it. I would stick a piece of flat iron or something like a machete in between the wood and metal on either side to break it free if it won't come. be careful with the two pieces of metal, you will have to get that trim piece back over it.

After looking at the picture of the back of your boat ^^^^^up there I would say this is where our boats differ the most. I can see the track bottom below the rings. Your boats transom might just sit on that and be exposed. The edge looked awful straight. if someone got in there with a grinder or something it wouldn't look that factory. I would build it like you have drawn but use the track as the bottom of your transom. I subscribe to the" KISS" method of building. below the track on my boat are knee braces and the such. The track and above will be smoother sailing. I also think you can use 1/2" metal for the exterior trans. I thought for my little 16 footer that it would weigh too much and the boat would sit nose high while not moving.

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Sorry Sauce one more thing, I think JB was right about the end caps being broken by those screws. they have a cone at the base of the shank that is there to help counter sink it into sheet rock or wood and I think if the PO over tightened them the cap would crack. After thinking about it I don't think your boat could flex enough to crack them. Basically, I think you'll be in good shape. cut the new transom to fit to the top edge of the boat and at least as long as that track on the bottom and you will be in like flynn

 

[pckeen]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Hey Sauce,

I can see you are having some concerns about that transom. Don't start cutting through the aluminum plating on the back of the boat, that isn't necessary. When I removed the transom on my boat, I watched the series of videos on this Starcraft Restoration to get an understanding of how to do it. Can't remember which video has it - but there is a video in this series showing the transom removal. The job isn't that bad.

 

[pckeen]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Just went back and checked - its part 2 and 3 of this series that shows the transom removal.

 

[TheSauce]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Thanks guys - Pat you are right about the water buildup - its made even worse because with the plug on the bottom how it is, tilting it just creates a new spot for the water to become trapped(granted its at least in the blige this time) but still...I was thinking of adding more bilge pumps than the one in the back. like the original one that is near the plug, then one on the other side of that aluminum because water has trouble flowing there, and then atleast one in the area you were talking about. maybe this is overkill but I dont want to redo this if im puting pour in in.

pckeen thanks for the videos, i really for the life of me dont understand why I keep getting, "cannot display in your country" from people who are in the same country as me...in any case i found the videos in a diff link and they are very helpful. thanks for posting them im sure im going to watch these ALL a few times until its good and driven in. i almost wish his transom was what mine looked like(even though his is obviously donezo). Atleast he can see it.

The guy I bought the boat from called me from Oshkosh yesterday - seems the walleye are running and I have been invited to take an all expenses guided spin to walleye country. Gotta love genuine people. Monday night just got reel.

Going to continue grinding today and try to get far enough to hang the engine on a stand to pull that cap off. Its raining here but my friend who lets me keep the boat at his farm was nice enough to gather up some lighting for me to work inside. Again, gotta love genuine people.

Pics to come, and soon to follow - questions about plumbing up a livewell

Weds I get the motors checked out and some professional insight into the world of my motors and the state of this boat. My mechanic yelled at me to stop buying up all the good deals on boats/motors in the area CL :laugh:

not this time Dan, not this time...

anyways i gotta go outside or im gonna explode - more later and thanks for tuning in!

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Thanks guys - Pat you are right about the water buildup - its made even worse because with the plug on the bottom how it is, tilting it just creates a new spot for the water to become trapped(granted its at least in the blige this time) but still...I was thinking of adding more bilge pumps than the one in the back. like the original one that is near the plug, then one on the other side of that aluminum because water has trouble flowing there, and then atleast one in the area you were talking about. maybe this is overkill but I dont want to redo this if im puting pour in

Hey Sauce, funny thing is I wanted to put a bilge pump up front too. The boat stays in the water all summer and I'd say that front area holds 2 or more gallons of water before it over flows into the bilge. real poor design. I was worried about access if it ever clogged up. the bilge on the drain side is fine for me because when I'm in the boat alone the water sloshes to that side anyway. if bilging while running just make a slow right turn while pumping to pull the water to that side.

 

[TheSauce]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

No boat progress today - but my CL addiction netted me a free 12 person cavas tent w steel poles and 2 industrial light fixtures im going to mount in the boat playground tonight or tomorrow. still slacking on getting to pull the motor off this transom

 

[TheSauce]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

took her to the boat Dr. today - hes gonna have a look at the brains and get 1 if not both of the old johnsons running smooth. Was hoping I could get him to pull it off the transom and keep it that way, but went the route of leaving the boat - work is on hold for about a week, but will come back with a bang. This gives me time to get all the supplies needed.

-Still a good day, day 1/2 of grinding left
-shop vac/power wash
-acetone
-Still waiting on Gluvit
-mount the gas tank/livewell
-check electrical/plumb the livewell
-measure and cut transom/floor
-work on overall floor layout with the raised box figured in for both the livewell/gas tank
-resin the transom as well as the edges of what will be the floor.(still reading and watching videos to make sure i fully understand transom work)
still unsure if i should glass over the deck or not - id prefer not working with glass at all if possible other than the resin for the transom - id like to seal the deck somehow but still deciding here

Basically once the motor is running everything is going to go quick because I want to get this on the water :joyous:

 

[lckstckn2smknbrls]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

When you say resin do you mean epoxy resin?

 

[TheSauce]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Yes. Is there anything on particular to look for in an epoxy for the transom?

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Hey Sauce,

I used US Composites epoxy resin on all my wood. replaced floors, transom, outer trans., bow seat bases, control bracket and console braces. epoxied all of it three coats. just make sure the wood is dry. I left mine in the garage for a week with the dehumidifier going. Cut everything to size and dry fit. then epoxy one side at a time, I used a 6 inch mini roller 1/4 or 3/8 nap. sand between coats. The medium hardener 3:1 mix rate stuff. It was dry and ready for another coat in like 4 hrs. Did my wood in late May or early June. It was in the 80's I think. I covered my epoxied floors in Nautelux marine vinyl glued down with contact cement and then screwed everything down. I bought the 2 gallon kit but didn't even use the first gallon. I used it liberally too. Read all the info on their web site. I was lost myself but the FAQ section answers just about everything I ran up against. If you have ever poly-urethaned wood, it is very similar. except for the mixing hardener and semi short open time. I think once mixed I had like 20-25 mins to apply so make small batches until your used to it. I think I started with 9 pumps resin and 3 pumps hardener to start. 20 mins felt like an eternity by the time I was coating the second side. You get into a rhythm or maybe just realize how easy it really is. Get lots of the rollers, by the time your ready to recoat the roller is solid too. Good luck with the engines. I hope you get both back running.

 

[Patfromny]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

Another tip if you go the roller route. get good ones. the cheap ones shed a lot. I get mine from Sherwin Williams in 6 packs. I have found theirs to be better than any others I have used. I also wrap them with masking tape a couple of times before I use them to prevent shedding. they all do but the better the roller the less it happens. If you wrap them first it will minimize if not eliminate any hair in your work. I am a finish contractor/house painter and use this method for those rollers too. Just pour a bit of epoxy on the piece and roll it even across the surface. start in the middle and work your way to the edges. I used 1/4" nap for the epoxy. (checked last time I was down in the garage)

 

[TheSauce]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

So buy expensive rollers, and then put masking tape around them? If I was going to go this route, couldnt I just buy and roller and wrap it w tape? Just making sure because you sure seem to know what you are talking about, and that part lost me a bit.

I'm going crazy with no boat to work on - sitting on edge by the phone waiting for a call from the mechanic. haha

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: '73 Crestliner Tinny Norseman? resto

No you are de-fuzzing the rollers w/ masking tape by wrapping them w/ the tape & pulling it off. When you pull the tape off, any loose, or nearly loose fibers on the roller come off. Sort of a reverse lint roller.............

I wrap duct tape & around my hand, sticky side out, and use it to de-fuzz a roller. Like this: