1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

[StevenT]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Man you are making some good progress.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

U flying right thru this dood. Was wondering why your not going to use foam? I have read all the posts on yes or no foam and I'm going back with it in my little boat for more for the structural plus sides rather than the flotation benefits.

This what I wrote earlier, but I have made a few changes during the build. The 5200 and PVC pipe idea was good, but way too time consuming. Also, I added a stringer in a spot that seemed to be spanning the furthest. I have no scientific way of explaining why I think the stringers are adequate to disperse the wave pressures, except LOOK AT IT!. It's like 25% stringer! After I add another layer of CSM and 1708 to the bottom, it should be plenty strong for the lakes I frequent. The other thing I will do is add a "Got Drain Plug?" Placard to the dash....:joyous:

Previous Post: "Here is my hull,deck,stringer philosophy and then I will get with the pics:

Flotation is good. Flotation in the hull is bad. New 2 part foam is good. Old 2 part foam is bad. Ventilation of the hull is good. No ventilation is bad. Limber holes are good. No limber holes are bad. Moisture outside the boat is good, Moisture inside the boat is bad.

Based on these truths, no foam will be going back into the hull of the boat. No 2 part foam, sheet foam or pool noodles. My theory is that any foam put in there is going to sweat. The sweat becomes moisture. Without airflow and drainage, there is no way for the sweat(moisture) to get out of the bulkheads. Fiberglass is a natural moisture barrier. I will employ limber holes with PVC 5200'd in. I am also considering vents under the bow seat storage area to let air in for better circulation."

 

[wolfsmurf]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Sorry I missed that.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Foam is often needed for structural integrity and is always needed for USCG regulation compliance on boats of that size.

with proper drainage and limber holes the foam should last a long long time.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Real nice work so far. Do NOT go with a dark carpet color. I had navy in my last boat and it was a friggin' nightmare. It always looked dirty. Even when freshly clean, one step into the boat from the ground and it looked trashed again. Go with light gray or light beige.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Foam is often needed for structural integrity and is always needed for USCG regulation compliance on boats of that size.

with proper drainage and limber holes the foam should last a long long time.

1.1 Subpart F ? Flotation Requirements for
Inboards, Inboard/Outdrive, and Airboats
FEDERAL LAW:
183.101 Applicability.
This subpart applies to monohull inboard boats, inboard/outdrive boats, and airboats less than 20 feet in length, except sailboats, canoes, kayaks, inflatable boats, submersibles, surface effect vessels, amphibious vessels, and raceboats.

My Crownie is a 202 which means 20'2". This is also why it does not have a Persons limit on the USCG placard inside. I think I'm good to go. I do plan on adding flotation in the gunwales.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Today was a wood working day. It was a nice break from the fiberglass work. We replaced every rotten ipiece of framing with fresh plywood. I am going to to give it all a good coat of exterior grade spar urethane before it gets wrapped in carpet. I was able to find stainless steel 3/8" T50 staples at the local box store.

Here is the rear bench seat frame. As you can see, the carpet was about all that was holding it together.

Here's the rear sun deck frame. I will need to find the heat resistant aluminum stuff that is applied to the engine side of the sun deck framing. I don't need much. Anyone have an idea where I should look? It looks like dynamat or something similar.

Here is the rear seat vinyl getting pulled. Luckily, most of the vinyl is in decent shape. I am going to replace a few spots like the sun deck, rear bench seat and a few of the bow filler pieces.

Another long day in the shop, but I am very happy with the progress.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

I ran into some Fillet issues and started a new thread. If you are preparing to do a resto like this do not use PL glue to bed your stringers. It can and does work, however it can also cause serious headaches as it did in my case. You have been warned.

http://forums.iboats.com/boat-resto...major-fillet-problems-please-help-592187.html

With that out of the way I can get back to putting the BF back together. This weekend I was able to work all Saturday and a few hours on Sunday to get the interior parts Spar Urethaned. They will be getting carpeted or covered in vinyl so the nice grain patterns will only be visible for a short while longer. Some suggested to keep the wood grain look, but I don't think it fits the style of the boat.

Here's the photos:

Prepped for urethane.

Two coats of urethane and back to the drying rack.

The Badfish in its current state.

Hopefully I can get the stringers all glassed in next weekend. The carpet will be in on the 18th of March. We decided on Midnight, which is a medium gray/graphite color. The original was beige and stained too easily. I order a 12' x 23' roll of it since I will need to recarpet many of the interior parts as well as the floor.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Very nice work on the carpentry.

 

[jsturvey]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Nice boat, Dude. It's got that "fast" look to it. Also, kudos on the great looking wood work. However, like a few others have mentioned here, IMO, leaving the foam out of the deck takes out a key structural component. The boat may also be a bit louder going across the water without the insulation that the foam creates. Just a thought. None the less, it's nice seeing any boat restored to new life. Good luck on the rest of the build.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Thanks for the compliments on the carpentry work. That part of the restoration was where I felt most comfortable. This fiberglass stuff has been the tricky part. I forgot the basics of adhesion when I thought this stuff would magically adhere to itself because its unwaxed. After A LOT of grinding I now know better...

As for the foam, I know it's a highly debated topic around here. Trust me I have gone over and over it in my head.... This is sure to repel iboats readers like a coon skin hat at a Peta convention, but I'll go ahead and do a pros and cons:

1. 2 part Foam
Pros: Original design, structural lamination, sound deadening(any fact to this?),adheres deck to hull, USCG required < 20' in length.

Cons: Leading cause of rot, leading cause if hull blisters by trapping moisture against the inside of the hull, more expense, messy, not enough where it's needed to make a difference in my boat(stern stringer's are 2-4" deep x 4' long x 4' wide. Next comes the fuel tank with 6" x 3' x 2' on each side. Smallest area of stringers with the most weight on top....my guess is it would sink bow up at best meaning the fuel, engine, etc will be fully immersed anyway)

2. Foam Sheets
Pros: ease of purchase, ease o installation, improvement in structural rigidity, added peace of mind, required by USCG < 20'

Con's: not enough to float my boat...see above, no lamination so not all that much structural benefits, gasoline dissolves it, possible squeeking noise going through chop... "Don't think so Tim".

3. No Foam
Pro's: Cheaper, Faster, Cleaner, freshly installed limber holes will be unobstructed, all water in will be allowed to exit, peace of mind that that rot and blister causing $&!] is gone....priceless. Not required USCG >20'(many vessels > 20' do not contain enough or any foam to maintain buoyancy)

Cons: less structural integrity than a 2 part foamed boat, increase in noise from the water, less forgiving of a missing drain plug or hull breach, and outraged anti-nonfoamers on iboats... Lol j/k!

Fire away!

P.S. all comments are based on my current research/opinion and are subject to change. I am not a marine engineer and cannot afford to sink a boat to prove my ramblings. No feelings were intended to be hurt in the making of this post.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

I would always go with #1 - foam 2-part pour-in type. The part of the boat that tends to collect water is the fuel tank bay. The other areas, not so much. Just with the wood structure, it needs to be kept dry. So, what goes for wood goes for foam . . .

the strength will be the greatest with the pour in foam.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

For sure put two part foam under the deck. It helps with sound deadening, and helps with hull puncture protection. I really do not believe foam is the leading cause of rot at all, it is poor contraction, and neglecting to seal the compartments that have foam in them. Sheet foam still traps water if it gets in there (found that in my Carlson) and does not help with stiffness.

I am a firm believer in sealing your compartments, and then foam the carp out of it.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

I put limber holes in for drainage and ventilation, so sealing it would be counterproductive. The first time water was intoduced to the limber holes, bingo, wet foam. Even something as simple as temperature changes can cause condensation to collect.

We are all replacing our floors and stringers due to rot. What do they all have in common? Wet foam. I bought my boat in June of 12 and it was trailered to and from the lake and shed stored all summer. I parked it bow high with the plug removed every time I put it in the shed. In October I removed all interior panels. I then cut the deck open in November. The last piece of bow foam was pulled out in February and STILL had water trapped underneath it!

I see water damage in my profession all the time. When there is a vapor barrier over wet wood like vinyl flooring, plastic or even paint it is near impossible to dry out even with commercial dehumidifiers and fans. We usually try to dry from underneath, but isn't always possible. I actually contemplated placing a fan and dehumidifier inside the boat with the cover over it. Again, without limber holes the fiberglass deck acts as a vapor barrier and would not allow it to dry out.

The "it's a boat, it's supposed to get wet" is just not true for our interiors. Although, it WILL happen. A freak storm or wave over the bow and it's cross your fingers the bilge is working. Wood and other porous materials CAN get wet as long as they are dried out properly and timely. The foam makes this process much more difficult.

Again, these are just my opinions. There are much more experienced boaters/builders on this site so take my ramblings for what they are.

 

[fat fanny]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Badfish I see merit in your opinion and research but! I do have to side with the mob on this one that the pour in foam is a isnurance policy against hull punchure, extra stability and floatation. I will also agree that a sealed compartment would help prevent water infiltration especially if the wood is properly encapsulated. I personally will not be one who would have to live knowing that a rig I re-built sank and or was in an accident and the lack of stability and or floatation was the cause of an injury to someone I care for!. With that said it's your rig and your choice.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

Ahhh Badfish, I see where you are coming from, but the reason the foam is wet is because of bad sealing. So many manufactures just staple down the deck and never seal the deck to the stringers at all. Water makes it through the cracks, seams, screw holes, and bam... wet foam. Wet foam is not from condensation, and a tiny bit of humidity in a sealed compartment will not soak foam. The condensation in that sealed compartment will never change ... well.. because it is sealed. I guess if you sell the compartment on a humid day you might have a little more than normal, but not enough to rot a bot out.

Basically wet foam is from large amounts of water intrusion due to poor construction.

I would fill up my Sea Ray with water that I have sealed all the compartments and never ever worry about water getting to the foam.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

You guys have made very compelling arguments for foaming a deck. However, I have chosen this path and will continue down it.

FF: the safety of my passengers is always top priority when it comes to boating. I live in Central IL so deep and wide water is Non existant. All children wear life vests at all times and pfd's are always accessible to adults. The shape of my hull does not allow enough space for enough flotation to do much more than slow the sinking of the vessel. The stability factor is something I had not thought of.

Friscoboater: I would agree completely that the Sea Ray could be swamped to the gunwales and not only keep the foam dry but probably pull a slalom skier at the same time. However, my hull, power plant, budget and restoration is not on the same level(along with 98% of all others).

Thanks for the input guys. I'm almost convinced to just glass the deck and take it for a lake test. If it's too loud, leans too much when weight is shifted or feels unsafe in any way I could still cut holes in a perfectly good floor and fill with it with that four letter word that starts with F.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

It is your choice . . . just don't be over-swayed by a bad experience with foam. Keep in mind that the saturation of foam is not instantaneous and takes years. So, some incidental moisture or water exposure is not going to end the day.

With my stringer repair job a year or so ago, the fuel tank bay was collecting the water through condensation, etc and over 20 years had about 2 inches of water saturated into the foam under the belly of the fuel tank. So that water trashed the bulkhead, the bulkhead then went to work on the stringers and the tank itself had some corrosion going on.

All the while, the foam in the more outside chambers of the structure was dry as a bone and 20 years old. If you have built your new structure with limber holes, then any water that collects has a place to go. Most issues of foam saturation are because the water has no place to go due to poor design or upkeep, and the foam eventually gets saturated over the course of many years.

Another thing that might keep you up at nights is the fact that boats of that size are supposed to have foam in the hull for flotation, USCG regs stop at 20 feet, but NMMA & ABYC regs/standards go up to 26 feet.

 

[Badfish95]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

tpenfield,........... ok, I'm beginning to cave on the foam idea..... The problem is, I will actually lose sleep over the idea of not having the structural, sound deadening, stabilizing, life saving, puncture rectifying, liability erasing, magical foam back in there. I could have sent it to the local boat yard and paid them to put a band aid on it for $3,000.00 and be back to the sand bar sipping a cold one. However, like many of you, I need to be at the sand bar sipping a cold one knowing that my boat was built right. It's a curse...

Here's my plan:

The limber holes are staying in as they will at least give the foam a chance to dry out if it ever does get wet. What if I took 3/8" rope and covered it in vaseline or some kind of grease. I would insert the rope into the limber holes and then along the bottom side of each cavity. The ends of the ropes would stick out into the fuel tank area. Once the foam hardened I would yank the rope out and there would be a small channel on the bottomside of each cavity to allow water to drain to the bilge when parked bow high. Think it would work? I think I may have read this idea somewhere. It seems to be the most logical idea over pvc drainage, balloons, dissolved paper mache... etc.

Either way the foam debate is over, just don't tell my wife that it's going to cost more.

 

[StevenT]

Re: 1995 Crownline 202 BR Deck Restoration

tpenfield,........... ok, I'm beginning to cave on the foam idea..... The problem is, I will actually lose sleep over the idea of not having the structural, sound deadening, stabilizing, life saving, puncture rectifying, liability erasing, magical foam back in there. I could have sent it to the local boat yard and paid them to put a band aid on it for $3,000.00 and be back to the sand bar sipping a cold one. However, like many of you, I need to be at the sand bar sipping a cold one knowing that my boat was built right. It's a curse...

Here's my plan:

The limber holes are staying in as they will at least give the foam a chance to dry out if it ever does get wet. What if I took 3/8" rope and covered it in vaseline or some kind of grease. I would insert the rope into the limber holes and then along the bottom side of each cavity. The ends of the ropes would stick out into the fuel tank area. Once the foam hardened I would yank the rope out and there would be a small channel on the bottomside of each cavity to allow water to drain to the bilge when parked bow high. Think it would work? I think I may have read this idea somewhere. It seems to be the most logical idea over pvc drainage, balloons, dissolved paper mache... etc.

Either way the foam debate is over, just don't tell my wife that it's going to cost more.

I like that idea with the rope. I'll be watching to see how that turns out. I think you made a great decision putting foam back in. I think most guys don't tell the wives the total we spend on our toys. I'm engaged and trying to get my boat done before I say I do.