1989 Four Winns bring back from the dead project

[In way over my head... always]

Ok; back to the boat. Again, I overthink things sometimes and this hole in the water is no different. I haven't torn the engine down further than pulling the ex. manifold and riser off. The lower end turns, but the cam is seized in the head. Cylinder walls look rusty through the plug holes. Both the manifold and riser are eroded away between the exhaust and water passages. Perhaps this is why the engine is junk; perhaps it happened while it sat for 7 years. Don't know, and it doesn't matter. What does matter is that finding good used anything for the OMC 2.3 is close to impossible at this point. An aftermarket manifold and riser is about a grand by themselves. I watch ebay, FB marketplace, and craigslist regularly, and the stuff doesn't come up often. I don't want to say that I'm down on this boat, but I am a bit. After rebuilding the transom and stringers, I still have to address the engine, outdrive, and trailer (rotted beyond sensible repair). Even picking up another boat with a 4.3 for a swap seems like a lot to put into this thing. If I did that, it seems that it may be the better candidate for a restoration, as it already is decent mechanically. If it came on a serviceable trailer, that's another strike on the Four Winns. I know many of these projects get to a point where the owner questions whether they're doing the right thing, and I guess I'm there. It ain't even pretty. The stripe on the side was painted over the factory graphic, and it looks like crap. At minimum, it needs to be sanded and repainted. So, it needs everything, it isn't even good looking, and the trailer is junk. Wasting my time? I got it for nothing, and could probably sell the Cobra parts as-is for a couple hundred.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

It does sound pretty bad honestly.....but you’re going to have to make that decision yourself. In my area used boats are selling for top dollar. It’s crazy what this pandemic has done to boat prices. People can’t vacation so I guess they put that money into a boat. Honestly a 2.3L ford block shouldn’t be hard to find, though I’m not 100% sure what Ford did to make them marine motors. The 3.0 GM is definitely more prevalent.
As youre seeing, OMC stuff is getting harder to find, and expensive. A decent trailer, good motor and outdrive would justify fixing a rotted boat in my opinion. All three of those being bad, it may be best to walk away, unless there was some sentimental attachment. Just my opinion, in the end you have to decide. Right now in my area a running Open bow project boat with a good trailer goes for between $1800 and $3000. This would be a boat that needs interior and most likely wood replaced.

 

[kcassells]

I really hate when I see guys go down this rabbit hole.
It's almost like they are scared to finish it. IDK...I feel the pain. Good luck and you'll make the right decision.

 

[In way over my head... always]

I'm not scared of the work. I'm worried that I'll end up in the spring with a boat with new stringers, transom, floor, and interior. Then I'll be waiting for months to find everything to make it usable, and spend double the actual value for said parts. Probably easier to find a boat that needs floors, stringers, and transom work, but has a running engine, mercruiser outdrive (much easier to find stuff for), and a usable trailer that needs freshening with lights, tires, bearings, etc. Not afraid of the work; afraid to do all the work and end up with yard art.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

That’s an absolute valid concern. If your boat had the Mercruiser setup it would add much more confidence in the restoration. That doesn’t mean you can’t look for a donor boat with the 3.0L, or another 2.3L OMC donor. I feel like longevity of the OMC is a major concern. Had the mechanics been decent, it might be a different story as there are plenty of OMC cobras still running.

if you can find a donor boat with a good motor and bad outdrive you might be able to get it cheap. :greedy_dollars:

 

[drew_caplan]

You seem too far into the teardown it would be sad to stop now. I would almost be inclined to consider a different engine setup. I am always researching electric conversion myself, it would be neat to see an older boat like this converted to battery... lol

http://www.evalbum.com/5217

 

[In way over my head... always]

Looks interesting, but that $20,000 conversion cost is a bit out of my range for this project. If I put off the bathroom remodel much longer, the boats will be the last thing I'll need to worry about. LOL (but not really)

 

[Baylinerchuck]

Yikes.....I think I’ll stick with the fossil fuel engines.....they sound cooler anyway, lol.

 

[drew_caplan]

Okay, admittedly it is a little pricey. Forgive my ignorance on the subject of the power plant, but couldn't you put really any engine in this boat given its size? I have seen this company in Toronto before. I am not sure the cost so maybe it is super expensive.

https://www.aerohill.com/e-ngm30m.html

 

[In way over my head... always]

Well, now you've got me thinking... and that's not always a good thing. Maybe now is the best time to determine the powerplant. You know; just in case the transom and stringers need to be beefed up a bit. 302 Ford maybe? Older Merc 888 parts seem to be somewhat available. A nice healthy 302 with aluminum heads and intake wouldn't be exorbitantly heavy, and I imagine that pulling skiers out of the water wouldn't be much of a concern anymore. No; I'm not drinking this morning. Maybe I should be, though. V8 power in a 17 footer? Am I crazy?

 

[kcassells]

I meant to say earlier that used boats are flying out of stock with this covid stuff. Premium pricing and low inventory.
Everybody has time on their hands and are getting or trying to get on the water.
Cheers!

 

[Baylinerchuck]

I know in Mercruiser there are different ratio outdrive gearsets for different engines. 4 cyl, 6cyl, and 8cyl can all use the Alpha drives, but all three use different gear ratios. I would assume the same is true with the OMC drives. Just thought I’d mention in case you were planning a transplant. One other thing to think about.

 

[In way over my head... always]

If I go through a transplant, I'll just go Mercruiser and sell off the OMC stuff. Merc parts are far more prevalent around here, and the used parts pricing definitely seems to reflect that. What little OMC stuff I find seems to be priced kind of high for what it is. More competition on the Mercruiser parts side keeps things a bit more in check.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

That’s a great plan. Mercruiser is more prevalent everywhere as far as Sterndrives go. The OMC stuff is really starting to dry up. I do always forget about Volvo Penta though. I’m seeing those on a lot of newer boats. The nice thing about Mercruiser is there are so many after market parts including entire drives from SEI. There really is no chance of that stuff getting scarce anytime soon.

 

[kcassells]

Now there ya go! Back out of the rabbit hole says I!!

 

[In way over my head... always]

The weather is pretty fantastic today in my corner of the world. Had to mow the lawn today; it's been nearly dead for weeks due to lack of rain. A couple rainy days recently brought it back to life. Noticed the LF wheel slightly angled on the old Craftsman LT1000 lawn tractor. Finally split the front axle at the spindle pivot area. The curse of the stamped-steel tractor axles. Another project for another day. I want to do something with my son this afternoon, but I figured I'd do a little bit on the boat since I needed a shower anyway. Finished my final stringer measurements as best as possible with over half of the wood missing. Grabbed the sawzall and started the crude stringer removal. I figured I'm going to have to clean up the main hull area first so I have a place to lay down to work under the bow section. Looking forward to that part... NOT.

 

[gm280]

Looks like you are well on your way now. And I have to say, you did good gutting the hull. The next step usually is the worst. You have to grind down all the old fiberglass so the new stringers and bulkheads will adhere to the old hull. And you absolutely need a total tyvek type coverall suit, goggles, respirator and ear protection. Basically cover over any body part you don't want fiberglass dust to get to. That stuff is the worst itchy, stinky, smelly, invasive dust you can ever be around.

So be careful and pop up pictures along the way. We LOVE pictures... :thumb:

 

[In way over my head... always]

Been pretty busy lately, so not a whole lot of time to work on the SS Minnow. With much of the stringers out of the way, I was able to lay down and get to the fuel filler and vent hoses off, and then the filler and vent fittings themselves. I chiseled some of the wood remains from the stringer tabbing. It's now September 1st, and we've had a few chilly nights lately. I know the cool weather is rolling in shortly here in New England. I have a few concerns about getting the new woodwork in before it's too cold to do the glass work. If I did get the hull cleaned out and ground down to good glass, is it OK for it to remain that way for a couple months? What I mean is, will the good fiberglass need to be ground/sanded again due to sitting? None of the rebuild threads/videos I've seen seem to address that aspect of a rebuild in an area with definite seasonal changes.

Again, I'm all over the place about the powerplant. Finding the appropriate things to put in a Ford 302 engine with Mercruiser stuff isn't as easy as others, since they didn't use that engine since the late 70s. OMC, however, did. That said, it's still easier to find GM-based components, and they're generally cheaper too. A 305 is the same weight as a 350, so why not, right? Again, aluminum heads and intake would reduce some of the weight, and they're definitely less expensive for a SBC than a Ford. I hate the thought of it, but if I stick with OMC, it seems that I can use the same inner transom plate and gimbal housing. More than that, the boat's main wiring harness would mate with the OMC harness on the V8 I'd imagine.

Since I've never owned a sterndrive boat before, I have a question about steering. The old 2.3 had manual steering. Is power steering a necessity with V8 power, or just a luxury? While I am sort of re-engineering this old relic, the less I have to change/add-on/buy, the better. Funds are not unlimited (see earlier post about bathroom remodel ). If they were, I'd have started with a much nicer boat.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

To answer some of your questions.....

As far a seasons go, you have the hard part done. The deconstruction can be done anytime, and if you have to leave it sit, it’s fine. Just keep in mind you need to grind down to fresh glass. This can be done anytime. The fiberglass layups need to be done above 60 degrees. When you’re ready to glass, just give the area a good wipe with acetone or MEK and get after it. Keep the boat covered and dry, and that will save you a lot of prep work.

I’m pretty sure they make, or made adapters and couplers to retrofit that OMC outdrive with a Chevy. Obviously you are limited by the size of your drive, so I’m guessing you’re stuck with a 3.0 Mercruiser if you do that.

In the off season, it may be beneficial for you to find a junk boat with a decent engine drive package that you can put in yours. The fall and winter time are a perfect time to shop for stuff like that.

Just some ideas.

 

[In way over my head... always]

Alrighty then, experienced ones. The more structure I remove from the hull, the scarier this thing becomes. If you're standing outside the boat and shake it, the hull floor flexes pretty hard. I picked up some 2x6s from Lowes this afternoon and put them on top of the 2x4 bunks that the trailer has already. The trailer has 2 main bunks that are about 9' long and two outer ones toward the stern that are about 5'. The 2x6s are longer than the bunks, and I figured that extending them forward and having the backs extend all the way to the transom would support the boat better, but after putting them all in and blocking the winch tower as well, she still flexes a lot. I think I may be best to remove it from the trailer altogether so the hull can relax. Figuring on doing it like larger boats with blocking under the center and stands on the sides to stabilize it. I've helped friends work on larger boats that were dry-docked for the off season, and they seem pretty sturdy. Will my light little runabout be sturdy enough to climb in and out of, as well as work inside of it? Is the chine strong enough to hold the weight with no stringers and cross braces in place? Last question (for now): best place to find small-ish boat stands?

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the assistance and advice.