1989 Four Winns bring back from the dead project

[In way over my head... always]

I read through your thread last night 88 Capri. Nice work. It's amazing that an online forum gives so many of us the courage to take on a project that is unlike anything we're used to. I've been an auto tech for about 25 years, but my last (and only) fiberglass experience was patching a quarter panel on an old Ford LTD when I was probably 16. I'm sure it looked awful, and I remember the itching, but it looked better than the rot to my teenage eyes.

 

[In way over my head... always]

One (of many) things that I question is about my engine mounts. Every other boat I've seen (not a ton, but more than a couple) has had glass-encased wood mounts with lag bolts holding the engine in place. Mine has aluminum L-brackets bolted through the stringers. Could these actually be the stock brackets, or am I looking at yet another creative mod from a previous owner?

 

[chevymaher]

Oh that was a creative mod.

 

[In way over my head... always]

Figured. Another thing to re-engineer when I am at the rebuild stage.

 

[In way over my head... always]

On another note, I had some time this morning to get a little more done. I hate to sound like a wimp, but the humidity today just kicked me right in the arse. Downright tropical out there today. Well, I removed the trim pump first. Disconnected the steering cable and lower shift cable, and unbolted the inner transom bracket. Major corrosion around all of the studs, and one of the two bolts snapped off in the outer bracket. But, it's off. Transom is as expected. The black on the boat is a paint job, as I suspected. The factory red is under the transom bracket. Speaking of transoms, most of the threads I've read have had a standard full transom. Since I have the extended hull, for lack of a better term, I'm not sure what to expect upon removal. How does water that gets under the swim platform drain? Or can it? The hull drain is in the bilge, so I don't see how it can. It's open above the transom, but not by much. Going to have to get a mirror and flashlight to see the horror show behind the transom. Some pics. As I said before, stopping to take photos isn't my normal, but I'm trying. Many people here have helped me with their stories and photos, so hopefully I can do the same for someone else.

 

[vandentr]

Dude, you have my sympathy.

I started my rebuild nightma... I mean "project", last August, had it stored over the winter, started back on it Memorial Day weekend, and am just now getting ready to put glass over the new floor.

I see you're in the "were the so-called engineers actually thinking when they designed this nonsense" portion of the tear-down. I can't tell you how many hours I've spent just sitting in that stupid thing envisioning how I was going to keep MY version dry and simultaneously being utterly bewildered by the amount of effort it took to move from one phase to the next.

Why would anyone set out to do this for their career!?

One thing I will say is that heat + humidity + fiberglass = a horrendous combination to work with that only a freak of nature would enjoy, so make sure that you plan out your "grinding time" in such a way that you can do the majority of it over an extended and uninterrupted block of time. Having to bust that thing out again when you think you're done with it can be soul crushing.

You will definitely learn a lot, like one rebuild is enough for a lifetime.

 

[Lou C]

before you start grinding...remember personal protection equipment...if the dust kills grinder bearings think about what it does to your lungs...at least a tyvec suit a 3M respirator and P-100 particle filters. And wearing all this in summer heat and humidity will knock you out. I did a partial job like this about 15 years ago...once was enough for me. Next boat will be nearly new. I'll keep this one as long as feasible, but I would not do it again. If I do a re power and find a rotted transom and/or engine mounts I'll take it to my favorite fiberglass shop on Long Island and pay them. For me at my age the health risks are just not worth it. And they do great work.

 

[In way over my head... always]

I had a small amount of time to work on it today. I began the rudimentary start of removing some of the floor on the port side. Saturated foam, as expected, was found under the rotted floor. What's got me thinking, though, is that the stringers are actually in better shape toward the stern than they are toward the bow. I'm thinking that in this gem's "unloved" stage, someone left it nose-down, where it filled with water that couldn't drain. Make no mistake; it's all going bye-bye. Just noticed that the rot is farther along toward the front. The transom needs replacing, but I don't think it's as rotted as I'd like for easy removal. Well, no pics. I worked for about 25 minutes before a quick, yet violent thunderstorm rolled by. Decided to just head in and take a much needed shower.

 

[In way over my head... always]

Had a little time this morning to continue some crude removal of floor "wood" and foam. I've been bouncing between a sawzall, an air cutoff wheel, and an angle grinder. I don't want to get too close and punch a hole in the hull, so I've been a bit conservative on the cuts. Now that I see where the hull is below the floor, I'll cut a bit closer before I start grinding. I haven't made my way up under the bowrider section yet, and I didn't have time to finish the rear starboard side yet either. A few pics:

 

[Baylinerchuck]

One (of many) things that I question is about my engine mounts. Every other boat I've seen (not a ton, but more than a couple) has had glass-encased wood mounts with lag bolts holding the engine in place. Mine has aluminum L-brackets bolted through the stringers. Could these actually be the stock brackets, or am I looking at yet another creative mod from a previous owner?

I kind of wonder about that.....looks like a creative mod, but it’s hard to see of any evidence where the old mount would have been. Buddy of mine has an 88 Capri with the 2.3. I’ll check with him just outa curiosity. Then again, there are probably as many motor mounts as there were manufacturers out there.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

On another note, I had some time this morning to get a little more done. I hate to sound like a wimp, but the humidity today just kicked me right in the arse. Downright tropical out there today. Well, I removed the trim pump first. Disconnected the steering cable and lower shift cable, and unbolted the inner transom bracket. Major corrosion around all of the studs, and one of the two bolts snapped off in the outer bracket. But, it's off. Transom is as expected. The black on the boat is a paint job, as I suspected. The factory red is under the transom bracket. Speaking of transoms, most of the threads I've read have had a standard full transom. Since I have the extended hull, for lack of a better term, I'm not sure what to expect upon removal. How does water that gets under the swim platform drain? Or can it? The hull drain is in the bilge, so I don't see how it can. It's open above the transom, but not by much. Going to have to get a mirror and flashlight to see the horror show behind the transom. Some pics. As I said before, stopping to take photos isn't my normal, but I'm trying. Many people here have helped me with their stories and photos, so hopefully I can do the same for someone else.

That’s a neat design. Was looking over my buddy’s 2005 Chaparral and he has the same type of hull design. Chaparral calls it their “extended V-plane”. :lol:
I guess whatever fancy name they can use as a marketing strategy to wow the customer and get a sale....

My take is that you won’t get much water there other than from a wet swimmer boarding, or a pop up thunderstorm. As the boat rolls the water will drain to the bilge, and those of us that rebuild our boats get to be pretty anal about water getting in and will towel it all out before storing. Once you tear a boat apart you have a new appreciation for what water can do to a boat when left to its own devices.....

 

[harringtondav]

"Knowing that mass-produced boats are built with mass-produced results". Go easy on the builders. A "mass produced" boat takes several days of hand work to produce. A deteriorated boat isn't the builder's fault. It is the result of a careless owner. I just sold my 24 yr old boat for top dollar due to it's condition. I kept it covered, stored with the bilge plug removed, cleaned and treated the vinyl regularly, buffed annually, etc.

I shake my head each time I see a newer boat stored uncovered in the open. Sun and rain will ruin a top of line boat.

 

[Baylinerchuck]

"Knowing that mass-produced boats are built with mass-produced results". Go easy on the builders. A "mass produced" boat takes several days of hand work to produce. A deteriorated boat isn't the builder's fault. It is the result of a careless owner. I just sold my 24 yr old boat for top dollar due to it's condition. I kept it covered, stored with the bilge plug removed, cleaned and treated the vinyl regularly, buffed annually, etc.

I shake my head each time I see a newer boat stored uncovered in the open. Sun and rain will ruin a top of line boat.

I do the same.....head shaking. And I see it all over the place. Not only that but people I know who only use the mooring covers when the store them. And wonder why the carpet is always wet...... no matter right now though, people are paying absolutely ridiculous prices for boats right now. So many folks getting in over their heads not knowing a lot about boating getting raked over the coals. I’ve towed a few back to the ramp myself, peered into the boat and been like, you paid how much for this??? First time boating?? Yep.

 

[Lou C]

Carpet unless it snaps out has no place in an open boat. That, and unsealed holes to mount seats, are the 2 main causes of rot in plywood cored decks. Just say NO to carpet, when I did my rebuild I threw it all out except for a small area in the bow. The deck is all gelcoated in non skid gelcoat and all holes drilled for seats were sealed with 3M 4200. Still solid 13 years later. A reality of boat life here, is you really CAN'T keep all the water and moisture out, at least not in this climate.

 

[In way over my head... always]

What is really too bad is that the foam they used under the decking is a sponge. They may not have thought so at the time, but what I'm removing proves otherwise. Of course, it has been compromised at some point. If it hadn't, I wouldn't be tearing it all out now. I suppose no foam can resist water forever. Even with all new wood and glass, this boat should be far lighter than it was when I towed the wreck home.

 

[In way over my head... always]

Didn't want to start another thread for this, so I'll ask it here. This evening, I decided to clean up some parts to store away until the rebuilding at a later date. I gave the dirty fuel tank a wash and noticed that some of the fittings are a bit corroded. On the vent fitting, the nut is broken off. The fitting isn't loose. Is the nut supposed to be part of the tank, or is it a lock nut to hold the fitting in the position you set? I've never had a boat with a plastic tank, so my familiarity is no good. New fittings or new tank?

 

[Baylinerchuck]

I’d say new fittings. As long as the tank has no cracks or other leaks it’s should last forever. Getting a tank the same size to fit in the space you need it to could prove next to impossible. You should be able to find similar fittings somewhere......perhaps iBoats has them. I purchased my vent and fill hose through here.

 

[In way over my head... always]

I was chatting with a guy on Facebook that's re-doing a 1989 Freedom 170 as well. He took the cap off, and recommends that I do the same. I'm tempted, even though I planned on not doing so. Doing the floor and stringers under the bowrider section looks soooooo much easier with the cap off. Decisions, decisions...

 

[chevymaher]

And think about how nice all the cracked gelcoat will look screwing the cap and rub rail back on. No matter what you do it wont be the same shape anymore.

 

[In way over my head... always]

I read through your whole thread on your 87. I looked at the pictures of when you did your under-the-bow section. My 89 is a bit different than yours, but not 100% different. I'm not sure if I can do it like you did. The center footwell section looks similar, but off to the side at the bulkheads looks different. I don't know which way to go. I'm all over the place. I've got plenty of cracked gelcoat as it is. A few more spots to repair is neither here or there at this point. In for a dime, in for a dollar.