1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

[VolleyGirlSC]

I started a new thread to document our newly expanded restoration project on a 1987 Reinell 192s.

After some investigation, we've discovered that we have classic rot in our boat and this thread will document our attempt to restore this boat for our family to enjoy.

Original threads were:
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=576882&p=3971524#post3971524
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=576998
Our plan is simple - fix it better than new and we'll be depending on all of you to help us with that since we are newbies.

For this weekend the plan is simple:
Organize the garage/tools/gear that we've acquired to prepare for this project (Done!)
Pull the seats and carpet, take some samples from the forward deck and transom and form a project plan.

I think I will be heading to the store tomorrow to get a canopy to put over the boat to give us a little shade to work in since the boat won't fit in the garage on the current trailer. I can't do the semi-permanent car one, because my HOA will burn it down, so I think we'll get an EZ Up type that I can put up on the weekend and take down during the week.

Long-term plan
Pull the engine
Demo
Rebuild the stringers/floor/transom
Put her back together
Detail the exterior
Resto the trailer (paint, swing away coupler, etc)

Since we will be weekend warriors on this project, it is going to take us some time, plus we're so green it will take us exponentially longer to do everything.

Here are the First Look Videos of the boat as well as the small area of rot that I've already exposed in the next few posts.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

 

[jigngrub]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Yep, she's rotten!

With time and money she'll be good as new and you'll know your boat from the inside out... something all boat owners should know, but very few do.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

It is too bad that you will have to do so much work on the boat before getting good use out of it. what you learn about how boats are made will help you in the long run.

Your challenge will be to do it so that it lasts a very long time. Of course, most all of the foam will have to come out in order to get the stringers and bulkheads out and replaced. You will probably have to remove the fuel tank as well. It is best to empty it and then tape up the fittings, etc. so vapors are not escaping. You will want to check the tank for corrosion and pits, etc, assuming it is aluminum.

When I have absolutely nothing to do, I'd like to take a larger, aged boat and rebuild it from the hull up. Good luck with it, I will be following your thread about the restoration.

 

[havoc_squad]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Don't forget, make sure the engine block and drive system is 100% condition other than minor fixes and issues.

If that engine block is bad (low compression, block crack, etc.) or the drive system has a $2,000 or more repair/replacment cost, restoring this boat will just be a nightmare vacuum that will just suck your money dry. If either of these are found, scrap the boat and sell what parts you can to cut your losses.

From the looks of the engine block, that seems to be an OMC Cobra drive correct?

If the boat runs fine with a dependable outdrive, then that's great.

However, be forewarned that getting service and parts for OMC Cobra sterndrives is becoming more and more difficult, as OMC no longer exists anymore and the sterndrive parts are all from aftermarket sources.

Along with the boat restoration tips on iboats, I highly recommend you subscribe and review ALL of the boat restoration videos produced by Friscoboater on Youtube.

The first restoration he did on a 1981 Glastron bowrider, primarily fixed the transom and some of the boat floor deck:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL77B3AAE59344C506&feature=plcp

I recommend this video if you want to see two different projects on how the transom is done and some of the variations of the restoration work done.


The next restoration he did which is his Sea Ray 1995 220 bowrider, this is a full ground up transom, stringer, deck restoration:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL02C318B574CD948D&feature=plcp

Basically, demolition, preparation, and replacing of everything just about that could rot on a boat was done here. This series of videos just about covers it all, a must watch if you plan on doing a boat restoration without any significant prior experience.

I'm sure there are some discussion threads here that will go into better detail on specific areas than the videos do, but these videos are very extensive for someone doing this on their own dime and time.


Oh, and if you're going to do a restoration of this boat, I would investigate if you can find a good donor boat with a good gimble assembly and mercruiser outdrive that matches the gear ratio needed for your engine, you would have to get mercruiser manifolds and possibly a new shift control box for the helm. Alpha One outdrive would be fine and match roughly your year model, Alpha One Gen 2 outdrive if possible.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Thanks Havoc - we've watched (many more than once) Frisco's resto on the SeaRay and the Glastron. When we received the boat, the motor was running strong and outdrive was working well. We've pulled the drive and were planning to replace the bellows and impeller. We were both surprised at how good the drive and engine both seemed to be, there was no water in the oil, the u joint and interior were well greased and in good condition. Now that we are exanding the resto, we are going to put her back together with the current motor/drive and if we run into problems either do the SEI conversion or make the transition to Merc. It was the one huge drawback to me when we traded for the boat, but the motorcycle we traded was literally sitting in the garage gathering dust for the last 3.5 years. At least the boat will be usable by the whole family. We are divided on the boat. As I mentioned, engine sounded strong, with no knocks, pings, etc when we tested it. Drive seems in good condition, but I am speaking from limited experience and exposure to marine engines and drives. Am I understanding you correctly that we could put a Merc drive on the OMC 350?

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Weekend 1 Update:

We didn't get a ton done this weekend as both the 3 year old and the husband were down with a cold. What I did get done was:

- Organizing the garage and stowing gear for project
- Removing the seats and taking to storage
- Yanking out the carpet up to the open bow area (ick)
- Core samples on the floor and transom
- Removed more floor and foam on the starboard side

What I found was:
- Floor rot stops just behind the ski locker on starboard side and only a small section of the port side near the engine mounts is rotten
- Starboard side of transom above rotten floor is toast, mid transom down by garboard on starboard side (as close as I could get to the bottom with the drill) is good wood and port side is solid as a rock top to bottom.
- Foam was dry as a bone
- Rear engine stringer and motor mounts are crumbly black wood

The technical questions that I have are:
1. To pull the floor I've been using a circular saw set to just shy of 1/2" and scoring along the stringers as possible. Is this the best method? I am nervous about cutting along the side where the deck meets the hull.
2. What is the best way to get the wood out around the gas tank. It looks to be metal and I'm planning to saw on the outside of the stringers/bulkhead around the tank and then pry up the deck - is there a better way? Also will need assistance with building an access panel to the gas tank in the new deck.
3. About 1/3 of the width, about 1/3 of the height from the bottom is mush, the rest is solid. Do we have to replace the whole thing? Seems easier in the long run to do the whole thing, but I could be wrong?
4. I have some questions on foaming - I've watched videos and read Hull Ext thread (by Oops I think) and I really like the idea of shrink wrapping the foam. I think the mock deck is brilliant so that you don't have to cut holes in your floor. My question - do you need the mock deck? Could you pour the foam without a lid, allow it to expand fulling and then trim it down to deck height and close the bag? This is a long way off for us, but just thinking about possibilities.

The updated plan:
- Replace the deck up to and around the Ski Locker (would like to expand ski locker cover in the process) and evaluate past that. See taped area in the pics below.
- Replace the transom and motor mounts

We are going to work on getting the motor ready to pull this week and hopefully take it out next weekend, but we'll see. Do we need to remove the housing first or can we remove the engine with the housing on the transom since the drive is already off? We will pull the housing too of course, just wasn't sure about the order.

 

[Reinell-BRXL-191]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

We have a 91 Reinell 192 Sunchaser - and we did the same thing you are about to do.. lucky for us, most of the rot was all stern (around the engine) and the transom was solid... but, all the wood in the seats, stands and cushions all had to be rebuilt.. but when it was all done.. we are extremely happy with the boat.. It is really fast, and very comfortable.. The boat is worth it.. .trust me... And it is always very exciting to take out a boat that you rescued... One thing to consider that Reinell didn't.. get yourself an access hatch for right over the gas tank sender and hoses.. I put one in, and it is a life saver for having access to that area...( you can see it in the first picture) Here is what ours looks like now after our restoration

 

[havoc_squad]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Am I understanding you correctly that we could put a Merc drive on the OMC 350?

If that's a standard GM 5.7 V8 350 marine block for that time period (1980's) with no special modifications to the block itself, then yes it "should" work.

Verify what outdrives are compatibile with your engine block in the engine repair section, and arm yourself with both the General Motors serial number on the block itself and the serial number that OMC assigned the engine.

Once you know which mercruiser outdrive will work (Alpha 1 only or both Alpha 1 and Alpha 1 Gen 2), you can narrow down a pick list of exact parts you'll need for the engine conversion.

Definitely will need the right Mercruiser manifolds, Mercruiser flywheel housing and engine coupler, linkages (throttle and shifting) with a new control box, and possibly the carb may need to change.

That's not even taking into consideration that you might want to convert the ignition system and wiring harness to mercruiser.

We are going to work on getting the motor ready to pull this week and hopefully take it out next weekend, but we'll see. Do we need to remove the housing first or can we remove the engine with the housing on the transom since the drive is already off? We will pull the housing too of course, just wasn't sure about the order.

Every outdrive system I've ever heard of requires that once the outdrive is removed, the engine has to be lifted off the front mounts and the transom mount. There is no reasonably possible way I know to get to them with the engine still in the boat.

If I were you, I'd be taking extensive measurements of where the front engine mounts lie in the boat, the size, and shape of them made. They will need to be very strong and easy to get a wrench inside to hold it while securing them down. I'm also not a fan of lag screws, high grade bolts with lock washers is best.


Good floor joint tip:

If you are going to salvage a portion of the floor at the front area and the stringers are all good at the bow, you might want to cut the good floor portion in a clean manner with the edge being at a 45 degree angle, allowing an angled area where new plywood can drop on top with its edge cut appropriately to match it.

Just make sure you're not covering over hidden areas of rot not found at the bow.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

It is too bad that you will have to do so much work on the boat before getting good use out of it. what you learn about how boats are made will help you in the long run.

Your challenge will be to do it so that it lasts a very long time. Of course, most all of the foam will have to come out in order to get the stringers and bulkheads out and replaced. You will probably have to remove the fuel tank as well. It is best to empty it and then tape up the fittings, etc. so vapors are not escaping. You will want to check the tank for corrosion and pits, etc, assuming it is aluminum.

When I have absolutely nothing to do, I'd like to take a larger, aged boat and rebuild it from the hull up. Good luck with it, I will be following your thread about the restoration.

Thanks for the tips on the gas tank - we are going to have to remove it to get the resto done. Can I remove it with the 1-2 gallons of gas that are in there or should we siphon it before removal? (She was dry and we added 2.5 gallons to test her before the trade.)

We are sorta bummed that it will probably be early spring for us to get this done and use her, but we are also excited to have a boat that we've built to our (and our iboat experts') standards. I look forward to the day she splashes.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Wanted to update on our progress. We pulled the engine today which went surprisingly well considering we've never done it before. It was a lot easier than doing a car, that's for sure. The towable high engine hoist that we rented for $38 dollars was perfect and made the job really easy.

We took more core samples of the transom and motor mounts. There is an approximately 1' x 1' area in the lower starboard transom that is soft, but the rest is solid and dry. What are the pros and cons of injection epoxy versus partial replacement versus full replacement? Obviously full replacement will be best end product, but what's the risk around a partial replacement Should we go ahead and skin what we can to get a better look? Our transom is 1.5" deep across the full width of the stern, so we'll replicate that exactly. Can we replace the transom without removing the cap?

The starboard mount and bilge bulkhead are pure rot, the port side has a spot or two, we'll pull more floor up to get a better view. The factory bulkhead and stringers were half-inch, should we stay with that or upgrade to 3/4 or 1"? How long does the pky need to dry before we use it? Thinking about picking it up tomorrow as we won't get to even work on demo for another two weekends due to scheduling.

I also bought a second bigger respirator with replaceable cartridges so that hubby and I can demo together. Not fair if I get to have all the fun!!

The current plan is to remove the housing, blower, etc from the transom, skin the transom and assess what we can. I think we'll end up with a total replacement, but we'll see. Then we'll pull up the floor, foam etc up to the engine compartment and stop there until we replace/repair the transom. Then we'll do the rest of the floor. Should we demo and replace the stringers one at a time? Or can we take them all out? I don't want to lose support in the hull if possible. It's on a bunk trailer.

I appreciate any advice/feedback you can give.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

I wanna get me one of those high lift hoists . . . that looks awesome.

As far as the transom . . . You will get a variety of opinions that run the gambit. So, here is mine.

The challenge will be to kill the rot. So, you may want to take out more material than what is merely rotted. Some tricks that I have used to kill rot in wood is to spray some regular anti-freeze into the effected areas. Then let is sit and dry out.

If the wood is wet, but not rotted, then you will want to get it to dry out. Some holes and the gentle prolonged heat of a space heater or just some good sunny dry days may do the trick of drying out sections of wood.

Do you and the hubby each have your own sawz-alls? Looks like you will be cutting soon. It would be best to get the gas tank out, if you are doing the stringers. Gas tanks are dangerous, so caution is the word. I pulled the gas tank out of my boat . . . it too about 2 weeks , what a PITA.

Good luck, it looks like you are making good progress.

Here is a thread of a guy who restored a Wellcraft, in case you have not seen it. I think your journey will be similar. It may answer some questions along the way. http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=536467

When you get to the re-building part, some additional advice that I would give is to fully fiberglass the bulkhead and stringers. Merely resin coating them will give you about 10 years of peace.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

@tpenfield - the lift worked great - I highly recommend it!

A few questions that hopefully someone can help answer -

What are the steps to remove the gas tank? Do I need to disconnect the fill hose and vent hose in any particular order? Can I remove it with the ~2 gallons that are currently in there or do I have to siphon it first?

What is the best way to skin the transom? Should I use my dremel to remove the fiberglass skin or my grinder? Also, my transom is 1.5" across the entire width of the boat and about 85% of it is dry solid wood, any suggestions on getting it out?

Can I remove the transom and the stringers at the same time without the hull warping? I am not planning to remove the cap if I can help it.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

If you haven't read this...http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=510077 I highly recommend you spend a couple of hours to read and study it. It is probably the Best rebuild of an I/O boat anywhere on the Internet. Everything you will be doing is covered IN DETAIL in this thread. Pics, Videos, descriptions Everything!!!! As for removing the Transom wood, I'd recommend a circular saw with the blade set at 1 3/8" deep and cut multiple crisscross overlapping passes in the wood and then wood chisel it off. Finish up by grinding it down to fresh glass with a 4 1/2" grinder with 24 grit resin coated discs and a back up pad. Harbor Freight sells the whole kit and kaboodle for under $30 bucks.

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Thanks for the specifics Woodonglass - its exactly what I needed.

I have read all of frisco's thread and watched all the videos - there are just a few steps that I still have questions on - I am still going back to review them from time to time, as well as the Glastron he did. I've also spent a lot of time reading your thread and Oops hull extension, but I am still such a rookie! I am just scared of cutting through the hull (which is actually in really decent shape). I have been going back and reading all of the completed resto threads in that forum section as well and making notes about how everyone did it. We are going to fab the decks, stringers, etc according to your diagrams in the Flamingo thread - thank you for creating them, because it is really helpful to have the visual. I loved how Oops! got his transom out with the come-along, but I don't have one. I guess I could rent one and try it since it is so solid - but I'd have to skin it first, right? I think we'll be doing it more as you described cutting it up and chiseling it out, but I am open to suggestions.

I am bummed because so much of it is solid - but I am not sure I trust a partial replacement. I want to have confidence in the boat when I take the kids out, and I am not sure I ever will unless we replace it completely. Is there an easy way to skin it? I was going to dremel it and try to pry as much glass off as possible (the spot with the rot should come off easily, but not sure about the rest). Should I sand or grind the rest?

(BTW I do have all the safety gear and we've been adamant about wearing it to protect the family. The tvek suits stay in the garage with the rest of the safety gear and we strip the clothes there as well which go straight into the washer just to be safe.)

 

[VolleyGirlSC]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Hubby and I suited up this weekend, got the transom assembly and rear floor removed and skinned the transom. I am glad we did because we are going to have to replace the whole thing and now we know it for sure.

We?ll pull the transom wood out next weekend (not looking forward to that!) and replace the transom before starting on the floor.

This is our transom rebuild plan ? I?d appreciate any input.

Laminate together 2 pieces of ? ply with TiteBond III or PL to get it to the existing thickness of 1 ? and then soak it with resin. Hopefully we won?t have too many voids, but we?ll PB them if we do.
Cover it with 1.5oz CSM on all sides.
Bed the transom into the hull with PB.
Tab it in with both 1.5oz CSM and 1708.
Cover with one layer of 1.5oz CSM and two layers of 1708 over the entire transom.

Here?s what we found when we skinned the transom. There was no glass on the section of the transom below the floor. The motor mounts were the start of the rot ? it is worst in the mounts and the stringers next to the mounts, spreading across the floor out from the mounts and up the transom from the floor. There was a small amount of wet foam, but most of it was dry. Also, the motor mounts were filled with foam ? is this typical? What options do we have for rebuilding the mounts? Would solid wood (ie 6x6 block) be better?

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Give Trooper82's thread a read, he slightly changed the motor mount stringer setup allowing him to firmly thru bolt the motor mounts down.. I don't remember how Friscoboater built his motor mount stringers, but I'm extremely confident that they were done well.

No idea why the mounts were foam filled. Filled to try & keep water out of the void? But once wet, the wet foam lead to rotting the wood ?:facepalm:?

Building sturdy shelf-like mounts similar to Troopers would certainly resolve that void problem, there isn't one. And you can make checking the thru bolts & nuts for tightness part of the regular maintenance schedule...

Encapsulate any wood you install in the stringers or motor mount stringers in poly & CSM. A 6 X 6 will require the use of lag screws, seal the screw & screw holes w/ 5200 at installation.

And yes, once the wood starts to rot, it only gets worse, & moves thru any wood to wood connections.....

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1987 Reinell 192s Restoration Project

Hubby and I suited up this weekend, got the transom assembly and rear floor removed and skinned the transom. I am glad we did because we are going to have to replace the whole thing and now we know it for sure. We?ll pull the transom wood out next weekend (not looking forward to that!) and replace the transom before starting on the floor. This is our transom rebuild plan ? I?d appreciate any input:

Laminate together 2 pieces of ? ply with TiteBond III or PL to get it to the existing thickness of 1 ?. Hopefully we won?t have too many voids, but we?ll PB them if we do

Roll out & cover it with poly resin.
Cover it with 1.5oz CSM on all sides & edges.
Bed the transom into the hull with PB.
Tab it in with both 1.5oz CSM and 1708.
Cover with one layer of 1.5oz CSM and two layers of 1708 over the entire transom and running each layer further out onto the hull bottom & sides then the last layer

Other then slightly changing the order there at the beginning, adding the edges, and running the glass out onto the hull bottom & sides, & that it doesn't need to be a particularly thick layer of resin, and it's only rolled on, allowed to start to get tacky (NOT DRY) then roll out more poly resin & layup a layer of CSM, then as you describe