1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

I agree mountain man. I am sure someone will ask why my color sanding isnt done after a couple days.

 

[micks110]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

I guess that's all just part of the forum experience!

OK- I ordered my foam yesterday so I started to think about how I would be going about things.

I was wondering how many holes I would have to drill in my ply to allow for the foam to have a place to escape. Looking at my boat I will have 9 separate voids so 9 pours.

[/IMG]

My question(s) are;
How many holes should I drill in each of those areas?

Should I drill them at all four corners and one in the middle where I will pour the foam?

Is a 1" or 1.5" hole big enough?

I will have to jack the front of the boat up a bit to try and get it as level as possible so I don't have foam running to one spot- but I will do that the day of the pour.

Your thoughts???

Thanks

 

[archbuilder]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

I guess that's all just part of the forum experience!

OK- I ordered my foam yesterday so I started to think about how I would be going about things.

I was wondering how many holes I would have to drill in my ply to allow for the foam to have a place to escape. Looking at my boat I will have 9 separate voids so 9 pours.

[/IMG]

My question(s) are;
How many holes should I drill in each of those areas?

Should I drill them at all four corners and one in the middle where I will pour the foam?

Is a 1" or 1.5" hole big enough?

I will have to jack the front of the boat up a bit to try and get it as level as possible so I don't have foam running to one spot- but I will do that the day of the pour.

Your thoughts???

Thanks

Mick,

I used 1.25 holes, just big enough for my funnel. I would raise it so it is tilted one direction. On mine I drilled a hole on each end above the deepest part of the void. I carefully calculated how much volume there was, then poured that much foam. I discovered it took about 50% more foam than the directions said.....that was at about 80 degrees. In your large areas, you might try holes in the corners....that way after the pour you can find out if you got it all. A couple of places I had to do two pours. ?the holes also act as vents, I duct taped mine and poked a small vent hole in them.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Mick,
The vent holes don't have to be all that big. I would recommend that you not try to make the large cavity pours at one time perhaps a couple smaller pours to make sure you get a good mix. A poor mix will also cause you to need more foam. Mix as long a possible before you poor. Keep in mind once it starts to react you had better be pouring. Don't mix too long. Make a few small pours to get an idea of how long you have.
Remember that stuff will not come out of cloths.
Have fun
Bob

 

[micks110]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Well thanks for the input fella's - that about answers everything except I'm not quite sure what you mean about the duct tape and vent holes???

I still have the forced air heater for the foam too so what temp should I try to get it to. If I do get to it this weekend hopefully we have another warm one so I can get it up to 80-85 again. The hotter the better right?

How long do I have to keep it warm after everything is poured?

No work on the boat today. I have to get ready with lesson plans for a new course I'm teaching starting Friday. I'm kinda at a stale mate anyways waiting on the foam. I just have to sand down the stringers, clean up, fiberglass the bottom and sides of the deck, and glue and screw it down.

Thanks

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Mick,
Once you pour the foam, it will cure in a few minutes. It really doesn't take that long.
Just remember that the ambient temp is not really all that important. The mold temp is the most important. In your case, the hull is the mold.
You can use a heat gun or even a hairdryer though the hole to increase that temp. The higher the temp the more it will blow and the faster it will kick. Higher ambient temp will effect the cream time which is the start of the reaction.
I believe what Archbuilder is saying is that he taped over some of the holes he cut and then put smaller holes in the tape just to let the air escape.
Foam is like any other liquid, It will take the path of least Resistance. If you don't have vents in the right places you will have a void. Even air can only be compressed so far, once the air compression and the pressure of the foam equalize it will stop moving in that direction.
I hope this helps.
If you want any more information, just ask
Good Luck
Bob

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

also store the foam in a warm place till you are just about to use it. its best to have everything at the ideal temp. Good luck with it. A video of the foam would be real cool but you would need someone else to tape it because you will be very busy.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

[unpopular opinion]With a hull that shallow I would so not bother with foam of really any kind I don't think. If anything I'd stick some sheet foam in there and call it a day. I don't think you could achieve adequate flotation in that small of an area.[/unpopular opinion]

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

I agree, but he's already ordered his pour-in foam. Make sure you have enough holes to give the foam room to spread/expand/set without pushing the new deck up.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

one of the side benefits is how much the foam stiffens up the floor. I was amazed at how stiff my 1/2" plywood floor was afterward. And Bob is correct about what I was using the duct tape for. If the foam made it to one vent hole, I had the duct tape there to force it toward another hole. I also had the advantage of having my cavity open on one side, the "dams" i made worked great. They allowed me to mix more than was needed in a cavity, and still give the extra a place to go. That really seemed to minimize any air pockets. You'll have to do the same thing with the vent holes. One other note, it seemed like the stuff would only "stack up" about 3" or 4" on its own.....then gravity took over and it would spread out. Bob what has been your experience with that?

 

[micks110]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Hey guys thanks for the replies. I understand the whole duck tape idea now.

For you guys who questioned about flotation- I am not doing the foam for floatation. I am doing it because this boats hull had alot of give to it. After the 3 layers of fiberglass it stiffened it up quite a bit but I am mainly doing the foam to add rigidity to the hull and deck- that's the main reason for the pourable foam. The sheet foam would not give me the rigidity and stiffness I am looking to achieve.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

It will, that is what I was getting at with my diagram. when do you get the foam? I picked up more primer and sand paper today.....may need new fingers pretty soon!

 

[micks110]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

I'm not sure when the foam will be here. I ordered it Monday night or Tuesday? It has to make it's way across the country from California so???

Sounds like you are having a fun time priming and sanding Arch! Skibum too for that matter!

I cut out the deck this afternoon with the wife and kids Wow that was fun and they lasted about 1 minute.

I have to come up with a solution though because when I bought the wood from the lumber yard it was straight and now it has a nice bow in it

I have it sitting in the boat now crown down with some weight on it but I know that isn't going to do much until I get it screwed down. What I am worried about is glassing the bottom- I can't glass the bottom with it bowed- it will never level with screws.

What I'm thinking is screw the deck into a couple straight 4x4's to get it flat, then glass the bottom. Once everything dries- remove the screws and glass over the screw holes.

That's pretty much the only option I have I guess other than getting new wood and I'm not doing that

 

[Isaacm1986]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Mick,

I have straighted out wood again like that. I think it should work, plus the fiberglass should help it hold its shape. I don't see any problems in using that method.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

One other note, it seemed like the stuff would only "stack up" about 3" or 4" on its own.....then gravity took over and it would spread out. Bob what has been your experience with that?

Once again it depends on temp and area. We do bucket shots and cup shots and it will raise several inches over the top and look like a mushroom. A 32 oz cup can't hold 50 grams of foam by weight. if you contained it on the sides so it had to go up and put a 1/2" of foam in, it would rise 8-10 inches or more.
ezmobee,
I don't think your opinions are ever unpopular and always welcome. At least for me.
Mick,
Can't wait to see some more progress.
Bob

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Sounds like a better idea than laying it flat on concrete and weighting it down.

 

[archbuilder]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Make sure you get it laid out flat.....but the real key is getting the moisture content to balance on both sides of the plywood....that is what is causing the warping. That is assuming it was balanced when all of the plywood layers were glued together. That is one of the reasons that some plywoods cost more than others. The APA has very strict guidelines on that....I wish more people on here would read up on that.

 

[micks110]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

I guess I know why people spend the extra money for marine grade. Heck when I went to the lumber yard I asked about them getting marine grade for me. I read on here about d fir being good and the guy at the lumber yard pointed me in that direction so I figured it's gotta be good.

If I could do it again I'd go marine grade ply- would've saved me the hassle of all this extra work I gotta do now.

Oh and about drying it out- they told me at the lumber yard it was dried out because it was stored under roof since it left the factory. Even when I brought the two sheets home I screwed them together just to keep them straight. When I unscrewed them today- booiiinnngg!- bowed! I was flipping!!!

What is easier glass to use to wrap around the edges to avoid air bubbles- strand or cloth? I was practicing on a small piece tonight with the 6" cloth I have and I couldn't avoid air bubbles right off the edge to save my life!

 

[micks110]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

Here are the pics from today and the deck. It's not to bad but not perfect. I have to trim some more wood off the one side to make it flush and then glass the bottom and sides.

Again, what is better to use to prevent bubbles on the sides- strand or cloth? Anybody have experience they want to share

The kids testing it out!

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

[SKIBUM1M]

Re: 1962 Arkansas Traveler restoration

For at least $60 a sheet more than what I spent on plywood I dont see the need for marine grade. Any wood will rott if it gets wet. So the best thing to do is make sure it never gets wet.