1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Yeah, Yeah Yeah may the itch be w/ you too my friend

Hey, I just found a good download copy of: Mercury repair service manual. Download only, so need to print a 557pg 'book' but I can load it onto all my electronic devices & have almost instant access anywhere anytime. The warden loves it when I read at night......

I picked up some tools & supplies while in Louisville, & plan to get a bunch of the remaining 1" strip of decking out along both sides, and the stern deck across the transom done as well. Over the xmas week, I'll get the bow decking out. Need to get that out so I'm not 6" from the grinder working on the rubrail nuts & bolts. Their buried in 'glass at the hull/cap joint.

I have been chewing on raising the transom & splashwell while gone this trip. This 650 will require it, or a jack plate, but I don't think I like the look of that on the stern. At least not on a glasser. Tinny maybe. I think I have a plan, but will give it alittle more time to soak in & then lay it out w/ tape & post pix to see if I'm daft or crazy. Seems like it might be straight forward, but being my 1st glass job, it will pose some challenges. Anybody got a tinny they want to trade??? They keep sending me PM's offering cookies to turn away from the dark side & the itchy/scratchy....:facepalm:

Have a good week

Oh yeah, & photos of 650 hanging out back are pending!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

They aren't great but here are 3 pix of the 650 hanging off the back of the FireFlite!





It's a 1971 650 Thunderbolt (photo of cowl & face plate soon)
It's a Long Shaft so the transom has to come up or use a jack plate. Raising the transom is a little more intimidating, now that I have motor on board & look at the sculpted corners of the transom. I thought I had a plan, but I'll work on that this weekend. The PLAN not the transom...:facepalm: I'm really not a fan of the jack plate look. But I will be in the Jasoutside/PMCraney indecisiveness corner for a few days......

And it seems to sit down on the splashwell pretty good!

I like it! I will need to spend some time looking at the ny-guy's decals before I order anything. It may be a combination of 650 & earlier model year graphics. W/ some of the turned metal gold vinyl behind to match original embossing.

Plan to taste/smell some FG dust this weekend! Need to build another motor stand & find 6 people to help get this beast off the transom!:redface:

 

[andgott]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Looks good... Raising the transom, if done right, gives you a lot more options as far as power goes. If done correctly, and with some forethought, it can be done without screwing up the lines too much on some boats. On other boats, it's not so easy.

Do yourself f favor and invest in an engine hoist if you plan to move that engine around much- They come in REALLY handy. I've used mine for lifting motors on and off the boat, lifting the boat off the trailer, and lifting the cap off the boat. They make life a LOT easier!

-Andrew

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Santa's head elf has already assured the warden that an engine hoist has been loaded into the sleigh for delivery next weekend.

I guess I've been better then I thought this year.....:facepalm: <---These are my chief elves...

Actually, Santa's little helper (me) is going to have to swing for the fence for the warden's christmas jewlery. But she's definitely earned it.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

These contours are what concerns me now that I've got the 650 on the transom, and can SEE how the transom, gunnels, corners & sides all come together.



I am confident I can make it work, & get the job done. I need to spend some time w/ a sharpie & some tape to confirm I can make it look decent and that it has a 'possiblly original' detail/look instead of a hack job. Photos of progress this weekend

 

[GT1000000]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Hey JB,
Don't know if this would be of any use, but it is a short shaft 65HP merc... http://www.ebay.com/itm/65-HP-Mercu..._Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item1c21fc53e8

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Thanks gt1m. Its a bit of a haul from here, but we'll see. Just so you know you know, you & I just made the naughty list

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

It appears to me that the transom and splashwell have a slight upward curve to them. I think you could continue this upward curve and it would blend nicely with the original form of the boat. A little glassin and sanding and fairing and painting and no one could tell the difference. Here's my rendition for what it's worth.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

If that is supposed to have an arch across the top, with a flat spot for the motor, that might be a possibility. I can gain almost 2" by raising the sides of the transom to match the height of the splashwell. Either end in your rendering. I can get at least that much curve in the arch at the top. That gets me close. Close enough anyway. I really need a full 5". I need to lower the nose of the trailer, so I can get the motor close enough to confirm the height difference between the cavitation plate & the keel.

I had visions of removing the splashwell & re-contouring the surfaces where the original steering cable went under the gunnels. Plus the entire perimeter of the splashwell to gunnel surface.

I need to get an elevation change measurement & un-mount the 650 to do any mock ups. I see some archbuilder-esque cardboard construction in my future.

Got a cart to convert into a motor stand. Progress & photos soon......

Thanks woodonglass! Fresh perspective, and a much easier solution.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

You do know the formula or method for determining the height of the transom for your specific motor...Right???

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Yes, I copied & saved the transom height drawing posted in another thread. I had to hang the motor & raise it on the hydraulic lift arms, else the skeg is hitting the floor, its above the crown in the garage floor pitching in towards the drain. I can't get a good bottom of inside of transom hanger mount to anti-ventalation (A-V) plate measurement. And with the motor on the transom, it's hard to get a straight edge across the transom from the end of your arch in the rendering to the other end. That measurements will dictate the amount of arch I'll need to add to raise the motor. Until I can at least get close, all I can say is it might be possible. And look fairly good, I think it is a much better alternative to raising the entire splashwell.

This is where/how I need to measure:


This is how motor looks now:
Just not 'trimmed' out, it's raised

After moving trailer around & lowering the tongue, I can lower motor it will look like this:


Either way, the A-V plate needs to be just above the water while underway at a normal cruise (not WOT). Like this pix:


In which case I may need to make adjustments after I put it back in the water redone & w/ new motor on transom, may move fuel or battery up under bow.

How about we go w/ this instead:
hmmm w/ an extra $45K....Maybe Andgott can retrofit cowls on them to 'look' like 1960's vintage
Ok, maybe not... Gotta go,



Thanks for looking out WOG!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

I'm guessing that I either got that spot on for transom elevation, or 100% incorrect, no response WOG?

I think I got it right. Spent some time stripping a shopping cart down & getting it ready as a stand for the 650. I actually found it in the flood plain along the creek at the edge of the on campus parking area. I drive above & along it everyday to avoid the campus side traffic. Basket was trashed. Looks like the guys from Jackass had been racing each other in it, w/ some unfortunate consequences. :facepalm:

Anyway, Mon I should be able to mount some ply & a 2X4 across as a clamping surface for the 650. I may put the Johnson 35 on the cart (its lighter & smaller obviously) and put the 650 on the other stand. The cart is/was fairly new, so it's slightly smaller (L & W) then a regular shopping cart. I guess it's all about the amount of material & fab for the original cart maker.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Moved the boat backwards on the trailer. It was much easier to move her around w/ out the 650! Now it sits about where it should, and pushed the winch & bow bumper post back into contact w/ the bow. It will be easier to move around when I need to push it in & out of the garage. W/ some of the weight behind the axle again. Esp w/ the 650 on there.

Spent some time on evil-bay, found some stuff to watch. Me & another bidder are fighting over a 'FireFlite' original metal emblem. Re-installing trim is so far off, I am probably not going to rebid. I know there aren't many spare anythings from 1960 vintage FireFlites out there. But I need to keep things in perspective. Especailly w/ xmas in a week.

Have a great week!

Also printed some stern shots to give some sketches of an arched transom some thought......

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

This will tell you exactly how to measure and KNOW for sure how high your transom needs to be for the long shaft motor.

Shaft Length: How do I measure? If mounting directly to a boat transom: Measure from the top of the transom down to the bottom of the hull or keel (lowest point). Measure the area of the transom directly where the engine will be mounted. See diagram below.

If using an auxiliary mounting bracket: With the bracket in the down position, measure from the top of the bracket's mounting surface down to the bottom of the hull or keel (lowest point where engine will be mounted). Tip: For most auxiliary applications, it is possible to use a longer shaft length than what is called for, provided there is sufficient clearance when the engine is in the up position. This can be especially useful in heavy seas.

If measuring an existing outboard: Measure from the inside top of mounting bracket down to anti-cavitation plate above propeller (this is the largest plate/fin directly above the propeller).

Height Measurement:	Recommended Shaft Length:
14” – 17.25”	15” Shaft (Short)
17.25” – 19.5”	Varies by application
19.5” – 22.5”	20” Shaft (Long)
22.5” – 27”	25” Shaft (Extra-Long)

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Yep, need a short shaft, have a long. Well the Johnson 35 is a short, the 650 is a long. And although I like the look of the 35 motor, it's slightly underpowered for my uses. Especially if we're going up river. Probably avoid holiday weekends at the lake & river. But on any given day they both gets lots of traffic.

I spent the time moving & adjusting everything so I could measure, then didn't...????:facepalm:

It's official, I need to raise the transom 4.25" minimum more like 4.75-5" to be even with the keel. I need to move the 650 so I can strike a line across the existing transom from the edges where WOG's rendering starts on either side & see how much that gives me going straight across. It looks like I can come up about 1.75-2.25" just raising the transom up to height of those. Then I can get the amount of arch or remaining amount to raise the transom. If I can get by w/ just another 2", I may try & raise it all the way across to the height of the 2 pulley eye sockets where the steering cable goes below the gunnel (no arch). Then I might get luck & not have to re-contour the splashwell itself, just the new transom height to either side of the splashwell.

There is an 3/4-1.5" of play in the anti-vent plate to keel dimension rule, depending on where you get the info,so....

And it all depends on your final CG & CB based on where 'normal' loads of batteries & fuel, plus people & stuff end up. And your underway at @75% WOT & planed out. Anti-vent plate just above the water.

But we've got plenty of time to get to that point.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

JBC,

Just so we're clear, My suggestion is to cut the top portion of the splashwell just at the ends of the aluminum rub rails so the 1 1/2" transom can protrude thru this newly cut opening and arch its way up to the height you need for the long shaft. It should be relatively easy to blend this back into the existing splashwell and would be almost un-noticeable when finished. Your completed transom blank would look something like this...

 

[archbuilder]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

JB I have been trying to get caught up.....maybe I'm missing something, but couldn't you find a short shaft with a bad power head and swap out the power head? That seems like a lot easier than redesigning the transom.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

Yes, I drew that nearly exact profile out on my hard copies I printed. I need to get the 650 out of the way now that I know it's 4.5" +/- I need to come up. Then I can get mock-up supplies & do a few versions (w photos!).

The fiberglass already has a bit of a rise from the end of the 'fin' to where the trim terminates under that cap at either end of the transoms flat area:

I wonder how much rise following that profile will give me? Take a few steps this week, looking forward to making some headway during my week off!

Former control box mount (half gone!)

Main deck is gone!

Great! No wood stringers!Edit: These are fiberglass only stringers, no wood core, sorry WOG, thanks for looking out. And I will have to core them for foam, 1st person to mention it. w/out float foam of any kind, I doubt it, but I could stand to check for water, there is minimal keel abrasions, but the water is coming out from the center stringer in the above photo.

Rear deck still needs to come out

Even a glacier makes progress a little at a time!

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!



Yep, like the 650 Thunderbolt! needs some attention before the deep freeze gets here! Same for the Johnson 35.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: 1960 Glastron FireFlite has a new home!

UHMMM JBC, those 5" wide raised areas are your stringers. You may be lucky and they may be foam filled but you need to find out by core sampling them.