what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

hare2 · Jan 9, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Hello OilDoc, I started this topic because I did not know what FC-W means. Now I know a little more. I have read the magazin's article. They may have tested unscientificly, but I do not call the results inconclusive. They published the ingredients of the oils. So you at least can see,they are not equal. There corrosion test was simple but conclusive : similar procedure as NMMA does : dunk cleaned metal pieces into the different oils and let them corrode in air. What concerns me is, that especially Yamalube was one of the poorest performers on corrosion resistance. But Yamalube has FC-W rating. Perhaps this is the reason, why it is recommended to fogg even 4-stroke Yamaha OBs.

31900 · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Just about sick of this lot. If FC-W is the oil of today and you want to use it and don't mind paying a little more (and it can't be that much in comparison to the fuel used in a day)then go for it! If you don't believe in the advice given then stick to what you believe and use what you want. (Not here....Not today)

TheOilDoc · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Originally posted by hare2: I have read the magazin's article. They may have tested unscientificly, but I do not call the results inconclusive.

The main problem is that those tests DID NOT include FC-W rated oils. In fact the article only mentions that four-stroke oils will "soon be certified" by the NMMA and "will be" labeled FC-W. At the time of Trailer Boat's testing (early 2004), the NMMA hadn't even published their complete certification manual, and outboard makers didn't even sell a formulated FC-W rated oil. The test data shows only API ratings (SJ, etc.), no FC-W ratings.

Originally posted by hare2: similar procedure as NMMA does : dunk cleaned metal pieces into the different oils and let them corrode in air.

The tests were not similar at all. First, the metal pieces that the magazine tested were cut from basic "steel flat stock". Not many of an outboard's internal parts are going to be made from that. The metal pieces used for FC-W are cut from actual cylinder liner material, most likely a cast iron alloy (possibly containing alloys like nikasil or even compacted graphite). Next, the magazine scuffed their metal strips with an abrasive pad. This is not a procedure the FC-W uses, as it adds an inconsistent variable to the coupon cleaning process (possible contamination, physical change to the metal surface, variations of surface texture between coupons, etc.). They also did not use the FC-W's three-step cleaning and preparation process of detergent, water, acetone. The magazine heated the oil on the strips to 250F several times. Unfortunately this temperature is about when motor oils, particularly conventional motor oils, begin to break down and lose many of their properties. The FC-W tests do not include variables that might be introduced by subjecting the oil to extreme temperatures, or some type of heating device (whatever the magazine used?). The magazine soaked the metal coupons in the oil for 12 hours. It is unclear if they aggitated the coupon or not. The FC-W aggitates the coupon in oil for only 10 seconds. And then another 1 minute. The FC-W uses an accelerated salt exposure environment by dripping a special heated sodium chloride solution into a special humidity chamber where the coupons hang. This is a much more controled environment than the magazine's open air/garage test, which could result in different test conclusions according to climatic, atmospheric, or air quality changes. Finally, and most importantly are how the coupons are evaluated for corrosion. It is unclear how, or who, evaluated the corrosion of the magazine's test. FC-W rates their corrosion standards on the area covered by the corrosion, not the intensity of the corrosion. And they use trained professionals to do that.

Originally posted by hare2: What concerns me is, that especially Yamalube was one of the poorest performers on corrosion resistance. But Yamalube has FC-W rating.

Again, the Yamalube 4M tested was not the FC-W formulated and certified Yamalube 4M.

Jan Z · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Sometimes we get stupid about oil, my new Yamaha gets Yamalube at $4.75 a qt (with tax call it $5 bucks) and a new filter every time ($12.00) with tax say $15 rasbucknicks. Sooooo, for thirty bucks generaly speaking once or twice a year my very very expensive to buy and or replace outboard motor gets a good oil that the manufacturer recomends. Yeah I can get oil a lot cheaper at Kragens but will it keep my motor running out there on the pond where I really need it? It's like spending $500.00 bucks on a custom rod and reel loaded up with the best spectra money can buy and then fishing with hooks you bought off the bargan table at Save On drug store.

hare2 · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

O.K. OilDoc, hope I got it, did not know,that Yamalub 4M has changed their ingredients. So Yamalube 4M / FC-W MUST have good corrosion resistance -- right ?

TheOilDoc · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

I don't know if Yamalube 4M is the best FC-W rated oil or not. But I do know it's good enough to meet your engine's specification and the NMMA's more strict FC-W marine standards.

Kanadakid · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Its not just about price boys, its about being told that this rated oil is superior or offers better protection for your 4 stroke engine....and that is just not true. Personally I want't put the best protection I can in my engine, and I don't beleive that yamalube offers that even with the F-WC on the label. So now let's move on to a really important topic, which is better Astro Turf or Natural Grass. Adam, you right, I need to get a life, but this spirited conversation helps get me through the fever bro. Kid

TheOilDoc · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Ok Kanadakid. So price isn't necessarily the issue. And we know you don't like marine certified oils over other oils. We know you don't like the Yamalube brand. We know you think the outboard maker's FC-W requirement is a scam. And we know you believe what profiteers like Amsoil and Trailer Boats Magazine tells you, but not what the volunteer non-profit National Marine Manufacturer's Association says. So now's your chance....What oil do you believe offers the "best protection", and why?

TOHATSU GURU · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

If astro turf and natural grass both had an FC-W rating would they be equal?

seahorse5 · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Originally posted by INTERNETOUTBOARDS: If astro turf and natural grass both had an FC-W rating would they be equal?

I think they both would need to pass AFL and NFL certification tests first !

Kanadakid · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Doc, Your way of handling issues is to stray from what is really being said and restate the point inaccurately. I said its not just about the price. Yet you restated price isn't nessesarily the issue. Which is different than what was said. And this issue is not about what I tink is good. Its about requireing consumers to use certain products that are no better than much of their competiton. It is very clear to me that you are and indusrty and most likely NMMA insider. Anyone that I speak with in the oil indusrty has has been the basis of my thoughts on this topic. Thus the reason I'm not buying into your flowery support of the NMMA test. So if I understand you correctly. Yamahlube will protect my 4 stroke engine better than any Non NMMA F-WC approved oil product ? Another question that won't get answered. Its really very simple, yes Kid that is true or no Kid than is not true. Kid

Kanadakid · Jan 10, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Doc, Your way of handling issues is to stray from what is really being said and restate the point inaccurately. I said its not just about the price. Yet you restated price isn't nessesarily the issue. Which is different than what was said. And this issue is not about what I tink is good. Its about requireing consumers to use certain products that are no better than much of their competiton. It is very clear to me that you are and indusrty and most likely NMMA insider. Anyone that I speak with in the oil indusrty has has been the basis of my thoughts on this topic. Thus the reason I'm not buying into your flowery support of the NMMA test. So if I understand you correctly. Yamahlube will protect my 4 stroke engine better than any Non NMMA F-WC approved oil product ? Another question that won't get answered. Its really very simple, yes Kid that is true or no Kid than is not true. Kid

LubeDude · Jan 12, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

It is very true that the new oils are not what they used to be, I wouldnt use a new API SM rated oil of any manufacturer in the collector cars I maintain. I am presently using a FC-W rated oil in most of them, Racing oil in others. It happens to be Amsoil. If I wasnt using this oil I would be using a Diesel oil. If you want the best there is out there right now, use Amsoil FC-W and run it like ya stole it..

TheOilDoc · Jan 12, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Kandakid, please read back. I have answered your questions, re-quoting them verbatim for clarity and providing lengthy discussion to help you understand. You simply don't like the answers. However, I have asked you several critical questions that you have ignored and left unanswered. I have asked you to explain yourself regarding certain comments and misinformation, and you have not. I haven't seen you substantiate anything you've posted.

Origianlly posted by Kanadakid: I said its not just about the price. Yet you restated price isn't nessesarily the issue. Which is different than what was said.

Ok. So please explain exactly what you mean? You have focused on the high price of FC-W oil several times in this discussion. Yet now, after its been shown that the oils you think are better are more expensive, you say "it's not just about price".

Originally posted by Kanadakid: And this issue is not about what I tink is good. Its about requireing consumers to use certain products that are no better than much of their competiton.

I'll say it again....using a FC-W is not required. If your issue is with a warranty requirement, then you need to speak with the engineers who designed the outboards and specified the oil, rather than trash the NMMA. FC-W is about outboard engine manufacturers specifying a better, more suitable oil (over automotive oils) for their high tech engines. And through the certification process, it is about consumers knowing what oils those are. And I'll ask you again....show how FC-W oils are no better than "competitor" oils? FC-W oil must meet special marine standards that go above and beyond automotive oils. Even if an automotive oil already meets these standards, we have no way of knowing that...unless you want to take the word of the oil marketer themselves without any checks and balances (FC-W certification).

Originally posted by Kanadakid: It is very clear to me that you are and indusrty and most likely NMMA insider.

What seems clear to you is quite off. I have already stated once that I am in no way affiliated with the NMMA. I do not work for an oil company, oil marketer, or an outboard manufacturing company.

Originally posted by Kanadakid: Anyone that I speak with in the oil indusrty has has been the basis of my thoughts on this topic.

And I ask again...who would that be? Profiteering companies like Amsoil? Mobil 1? Trailer Boats Magazine? Or is it the NMMA, ASTM, etc.?

Originally posted by Kanadakid: Thus the reason I'm not buying into your flowery support of the NMMA test.

I'm not trying to get you to buy into the NMMA (I don't care what oil you use). But I would like to hear, specificaly, why you don't support the NMMA tests, and what tests you would support?

Originally posted by Kanadakid: So if I understand you correctly. Yamahlube will protect my 4 stroke engine better than any Non NMMA F-WC approved oil product ?

Yes. Of course your question is vague and I have to make an assumption that you meant Yamalube FC-W, and I'm guessing at what you mean by "protect", "better", and "any". If you have proof that a non-FC-W oil is "better" than a FC-W certified marine oil in an outboard, I would appreciate seeing it.

Originally posted by Kanadakid: Another question that won't get answered. Its really very simple, yes Kid that is true or no Kid than is not true.

I have again answered your questions verbatim. Now I would appreciate it if you would read back and do the same with all the question's I've asked you.

JRJ · Feb 15, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Thanks for all the info.

31900 · Feb 16, 2006

Re: what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

And so it seems as is advertised here "Oils aint Oils"

what oil brands do you use on Yamaha 4 strokes

Cadet

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 1st Class

Seaman Apprentice

Cadet

Petty Officer 1st Class

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 1st Class

Admiral

Rear Admiral

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Petty Officer 2nd Class

Admiral

Petty Officer 1st Class

Commander

Petty Officer 2nd Class