Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

How about Pertronix D200810 distributor? I'm not too worried about gasket prices. I've understood that vortec heads require different kind of intake gaskets, but are rest (exhaust, cylinder head) gaskets the same as all other 350s?

Am I going to have trouble with marine distributor and car cams combined? I've understood that these crate engines are manufactured for marine use as well (that's what wikipedia told me). Any way to find out if the engine is originally manufactured for marine use with the help of engine identification codes?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

How about Pertronix D200810 distributor? I'm not too worried about gasket prices. I've understood that vortec heads require different kind of intake gaskets, but are rest (exhaust, cylinder head) gaskets the same as all other 350s?

Am I going to have trouble with marine distributor and car cams combined? I've understood that these crate engines are manufactured for marine use as well (that's what wikipedia told me). Any way to find out if the engine is originally manufactured for marine use with the help of engine identification codes?

Ayuh,.... You Don't have Vortec heads,....
The head in the picture is the old school style combustion chamber head,....

The head gaskets are Marine specific, the others less so,...
But, buyin' a Marine set covers the bases,...

I wouldn't worry 'bout the Cam,... It ain't radical enough to worry 'bout,...

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Ayuh,.......I wouldn't worry 'bout the Cam,... It ain't radical enough to worry 'bout,...

Unless I missed it somewhere, is it known 100% that this motor IS a marine engine? If it was just an automotive motor someone popped in there its not going to live too long with that cam as most (automotive) have 'overlap' between exhaust and intake.. Works great in a car, as the exiting exhaust creates a suction effect, drawing in the intake charge (its known as 'scavenging') but guess what happens in a wet marine exhaust system? Yup, water WILL get sucked in, motor will die. Not to mention the automotive cam grind won't work well in a boat, power band and rpm range is totally different.. That starter looks automotive to me, and with the obvious NON marine carb and distributor (and you said electric fuel pump as well?) my bet is its a car or truck motor somebody dressed up with some of the marine gear... and I agree, unfortunately, it is literally a bomb waiting to go off in its current state..

 

[Maclin]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

That thing on top of the distributor is the ignition coil. Based on the types of question you are asking methinks even a highpriced boat mechanic would cost you less over time, just sayin'.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

..... my bet is its a car or truck motor somebody dressed up with some of the marine gear... ...

If it were a truck engine, that would be good. Truck cams are made for low end torque and do not have the overlap issue.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

If it were a truck engine, that would be good. Truck cams are made for low end torque and do not have the overlap issue.

Uhhh... not quite... an "RV" cam would work, but as far as i know most regular truck motors still wouldn't have a suitable cam for a marine application..

Once upon a time I bought a boat.. it had just had the motor "replaced" and I took it out for a run.. had some issues, would run ok but not get up on plane.. Changed prop, got on plane but wouldn't rev out (could barely hit 4000rpm) In the 20 mins I was out, it slowly lost power, in the end barely making it back to the dock. Got it home, compression check, all cyls were low, two pretty much dead. (Under 70psi) THEN I talked to the person that 'changed' the motor. Turns out in the end it was a typical 'junkyard 350' out of an old chev 1/2 tonne truck. (at least the guy was smart enough to put ALL the marine gear on it, starter/alt/dist/carb/etc) I puled it out, tore it down, wouldn't you know it, WATER/rust in the cylinders and on the valves (ya, marine exhaust valves are usually different as well, to prevent rusting.. stainless or inconle [sp?] i believe) and yes, the automotive head gaskets that do NOT have stainless fire rings .. heh, well, one poped between cylinders, and the other side was ready to go. The guy did give me some money back, it all worked out in the end, but this was not my first go around with a boat OR a chev V8...

Either way, I agree with Maclin, it seams to me there will be a time consuming and pricy learning curve here without some experienced help from someone (in person) and i would say don't do ANYTHING else until u gather some more knowledge, and determine exactly WHAT u have, and what went wrong...

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Looks like you have an aluminum intake manifold. Hope you don't run this thing in salt water.

Also be aware that the distributor you currently have, besides being non-marine, can not be adapted to work with your ESA to allow your Cobra drive to shift out of gear properly.

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

The starter is Wilson 91-01-4388N, replacement for OMC 3855177. Definitely is a marine starter. Did I say it reads USCG approved on it? And you know what? I have a receipt that the previous owner gave me. The engine was replaced by a "professional" marine mechanic in 2009. The identification numbers on the receipt match to the identification codes on the engine. I have been screwed with local mechanics previously as well. There is no way I'm trusting this to a local mechanic. If something is beyond my skills, I will have that particular job done by a mechanic, but nothing more. I have never seen an Ignition coil on top of the distributor, that's why I was asking. Seems I'll have to get a new ignition coil as well when I change the distributor.

The intake manifold does have some corrosion, but it is not badly corroded. The salt water concentration of Baltic Sea is much lower than that of the oceans. I guess now it works as an anode for the engine, being less noble than iron. The car distributor has been wired to work with the OMC ESA system, as the microswitchs do interrupt ignition. Don't ask me how this has been done.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

I have never seen an Ignition coil on top of the distributor, that's why I was asking. Seems I'll have to get a new ignition coil as well when I change the distributor.

............................The car distributor has been wired to work with the OMC ESA system, as the microswitchs do interrupt ignition. Don't ask me how this has been done.

That distributor is a GM HEI distributor. It's one of the best ignition systems ever made (for a car/truck) If you could safely seal it for marine use, it would be safe to use.

I'm not sure how hard that would be to do....
Then there's the problem of removing the vacuum advance and changing the springs/weights so the centrifugal advance curve is right for that engine. The only way to make that work would be to run it on a distributor machine to tweak it.


CTCI - Gil's Garage - Sun Distributor Machine - The Ultimate Tool

DAVIS has already done it.....but they're not cheap!

Here's one at Summit ...........DAVIS DUI


Regards,



Rick

 

[PS94]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

carrier82 - A few things I've learned on my years on iBoats...1) LISTEN TO BONDO.(also, ANYTHING by the great, patient, understanding, forgiving and omnipotent and sadly passed on, Don S, may be taken as gospel) 2) If its not meant for a boat, like a carb, intake or distributor, starter, alternator, spark plug etc, its probably a bad idea...I can build rowdy *** street engines (402 rwhp 408 rwtq 302 based 347ci n/a pump gas) but boats are A DIFFERENT WORLD. 3) Listen to iBoats. we have all been there....and have made mistakes...if getting it right, means spending $$ out the *** on USA based parts on Amazon or E-bay....its the cost of boat ownership...

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

I do intend to listen to Bondo and I'll see that the distributor and carburetor get replaced before next season. Must check the alternator. I hope Bondo's right about the cam as well. And as I said, the cam has worked nice with no issues. Planes easily, low consumption, good top speed. I would place my bets on it being suitable for marine use. At 2500 rpm speed is about 22 knots. I don't have to rev the engine very much and still have power potential if I need it.

What comes to the intake manifold, I might use it for the next season, but I'm also considering switching to Megasquirt. Is that a bad idea? Electric gas pump is something I'll try to live with. By spending ~500 €, I could get a reconditioned Mercruiser rochester carburetor with electric choke off ebay, as well as the Pertronix distributor (shipping & taxes included). How does that sound? Edelbrock 650 cfm wouldn't be much more expensive (and I would get a free Edelbrock hat). Checked the local used market, quite silent and of course new / reman parts are better than used ones...

HT32BSX115, thank you for the tip. If it is a valued HEI distributor, I might sell it to some car hobbyist to get funds for marine dist. Doubt I'll be doing any modifications for it.

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Is the bolt alignment always the same or do i have to get a different manifold for the merc carb? Is the aluminium intake something that'll try to kill me somehow?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

I do intend to listen to Bondo and I'll see that the distributor and carburetor get replaced before next season. Must check the alternator. I hope Bondo's right about the cam as well. And as I said, the cam has worked nice with no issues. Planes easily, low consumption, good top speed. I would place my bets on it being suitable for marine use. At 2500 rpm speed is about 22 knots. I don't have to rev the engine very much and still have power potential if I need it.

What comes to the intake manifold, I might use it for the next season, but I'm also considering switching to Megasquirt. Is that a bad idea? Electric gas pump is something I'll try to live with. By spending ~500 €, I could get a reconditioned Mercruiser rochester carburetor with electric choke off ebay, as well as the Pertronix distributor (shipping & taxes included). How does that sound? Edelbrock 650 cfm wouldn't be much more expensive (and I would get a free Edelbrock hat). Checked the local used market, quite silent and of course new / reman parts are better than used ones...

HT32BSX115, thank you for the tip. If it is a valued HEI distributor, I might sell it to some car hobbyist to get funds for marine dist. Doubt I'll be doing any modifications for it.

Ayuh,.... As I said, the cam is the least of yer worries,...

I donno what a Megasquirt is, but if it's aluminum, ya don't want it, go with cast iron,...

'n Merc dropped the Rochester carbs back in the 80s, 'n went to their Merc/ Weber carbs, which are carbon copies, part for part, of the Edlebrock,...

For the distributor, the Delco EST in kit form is reasonably priced, Great unit,...

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Ok, I will search for Delco EST kit, Edelbrock 650 cfm carb and cast iron intake manifold. Thank you for your help, Bondo. After marine alternator (if not marine), starter (done), carburetor, intake manifold and distributor, I should be safe for the next season? (Of course I'll carry a big fire extinguisher, red flares and marine VHF radio in case of emergency )

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Megasquirt is a DIY fuel injection kit. MegaSquirt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Fortunately the weekend wasn't all tears, i was able to change winter tires to my car, and manage to replace a blown headlight bulb as well (that was quite an achievement on a modern french car...)

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Megasquirt is just the controller. If you are attaching it to an automotive EFI, its still not going to be marine rated.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Im going to jump in here

Based on the pictures The distributor in the picture is an Automotive HEI. the coil in the cap is the giveaway.

As many stated, the distributor and the carb are not Marine. The starter is hard to tell, however I doubt that is marine as well. If that is the case, what alternator is on this engine.

The carb is definitely not marine, and the intake is aftermarket aluminum. Aluminum intakes and salt water are a bad combination. While the carb could be made to work (different base plate, j-tubes, etc.) it is not worth the trouble vs selling to someone who needs an automotive carb and then buying the correct one.

Regarding the cam, if it is an Automotive cam, that will be a problem as well unless it has a really anemic cam.

the block and heads appear to be correct for the vintage (from the limited view of the combustion chambers and piston tops)

The best we can hope for is the marine serial number tag is still on the block, indicating that the ancillary components were just swapped and not the whole motor

Carrier82, where in the Baltic are you?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

you could use enecon to coat the water passages of the aluminum intake and use it. However it would require etching and blasting the interior of the water passages.

There are dual alloy castings - Bronze for the water side, aluminum for everything else. I have one on my boat.

 

[81 Checkmate]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Carrier82...Is your boating season about over? ..... If so i would go ahead and pull the other head and have it checked also......all your out is the labor. You have it down this far why not do the whole top end.... The head gaskets come as a set.

You are going thru all the trouble to make it right!

Just a thought.

Good luck!