Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

The starter is hard to tell, however I doubt that is marine as well. If that is the case, what alternator is on this engine.
...
Carrier82, where in the Baltic are you?

The starter has a tag that says "US Coast Guard approved". The model number is Wilson 91-01-4388N. Google seems to reveal it as a marine starter. Is there any support for it not being a marine starter? I will check the alternator.

I'm located in Finland, which is not in the baltic, but the Baltic sea is where I sail. Haven't found any marking on the engine, except for the identification numbers. Is it possible to trace the original use for this engine using those codes?

I might remove the other head as well, as Checkmate suggested, as the boating season is over. Any reasons not to do so? I will look into the possibility of using enecon on the existing intake (I do have sand blowing equipment).

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Ok, I will search for Delco EST kit, Edelbrock 650 cfm carb and cast iron intake manifold. Thank you for your help, Bondo. After marine alternator (if not marine), starter (done), carburetor, intake manifold and distributor, I should be safe for the next season? (Of course I'll carry a big fire extinguisher, red flares and marine VHF radio in case of emergency )

Even with "all of the above", make absolutely sure you have a WORKING (well) engine compartment blower that pulls air (vapor etc) out of your bilge.

Gasoline vapors are heavier than air and you want a fairly powerful blower that will extract them quickly from the lowest point in your bilge

EVERY YEAR up in the Seattle area marinas, someones boat goes BOOM on start-up and either kills someone or sets the adjacent boats on fire etc.......


Make sure that blower moves a LOT of air and run that thing prior to EVERY engine start, hot or cold!!


Cheers,


Rick

 

[500dollar744ti]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Unless I missed it somewhere, is it known 100% that this motor IS a marine engine? If it was just an automotive motor someone popped in there its not going to live too long with that cam as most (automotive) have 'overlap' between exhaust and intake.. Works great in a car, as the exiting exhaust creates a suction effect, drawing in the intake charge (its known as 'scavenging') but guess what happens in a wet marine exhaust system? Yup, water WILL get sucked in, motor will die. Not to mention the automotive cam grind won't work well in a boat, power band and rpm range is totally different.. That starter looks automotive to me, and with the obvious NON marine carb and distributor (and you said electric fuel pump as well?) my bet is its a car or truck motor somebody dressed up with some of the marine gear... and I agree, unfortunately, it is literally a bomb waiting to go off in its current state..

Give the guy a break, he's a new boater, he understands the hazards now and will be responsible for the consequences if he doesn't fix them.

I seriously doubt it's from car or truck, and if it were from a truck that would be just fine. You think someone went to the local scrapyard and pulled a 350 from a wrecked Volvo or Skoda? They don't have junkyards with suburbans, camaros and roadmasters, everything has to come from overseas and any smallblock American v8 in the area probably came from a boat. People that want to build a hotrod 350 start with one from a boat because that's the only place to find one.

 

[500dollar744ti]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Megasquirt is a DIY fuel injection kit. MegaSquirt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I run that on my race car, you don't want that on your boat.

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Ok. Some people around here do use MS on boat engines. But some people put car parts on marine engines here as well, so I'll take your word for it.

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

And, I also thought it might be a good idea to build some kind of wall to separate the engine compartment from the battery / main power switch / stereo amplifier space that can be seen on one of the pictures.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

And, I also thought it might be a good idea to build some kind of wall to separate the engine compartment from the battery / main power switch / stereo amplifier space that can be seen on one of the pictures.

Not necessary.

 

[bigdirty]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Give the guy a break, he's a new boater, he understands the hazards now and will be responsible for the consequences if he doesn't fix them.

I seriously doubt it's from car or truck, and if it were from a truck that would be just fine. You think someone went to the local scrapyard and pulled a 350 from a wrecked Volvo or Skoda? They don't have junkyards with suburbans, camaros and roadmasters, everything has to come from overseas and any smallblock American v8 in the area probably came from a boat...

Not at all what I was inferring, but that entire BOAT would have been imported from North America, no? Well, seams quite possible to me it COULD have been an automotive motor that was swapped in BEFORE he got the boat... now he says engine was replaced my a 'marine mechanic' ok, fine.. what 'marine' mechanic would drop an auto/truck HEI distributor into a marine engine??? or that carb? Guess hes right not to trust 'local' mechanics...

And not that I was trying to give you a hard time carrier82, but from the first few posts it seamed you just didn't understand what other posters were trying to tell you, and it is all designed to be safe (IE; NOT explode!) so for me (and likely others here..) its frightening to hear someone say "Oh, it doesn't/cant really matter" to all these things.. but they don't recognize the HEI distributor on their boat, then when their told its dangerous and not a rated 'marine' part that could be a serious hazard, they seam to want to argue the fact..

About using Megasquirt.. its been a while since I played with it, but does it not need an oxygen sensor to work? I know they had a 'megasquirt and spark' but either way you would have to convert your motor to fuel injection.. likely easier and cheaper to just get a marine carb and iron intake, bolt it on and you are done.

If the # on the starter checks out as "marine rated" that's good, it just looked from the pic (to me) like possibly an aftermarket high torque starter of some kind. Didnt see the "USCG approved on it" part, my apology.. I'm curious about the alternator as well..

Battery switch stereo is fine as is, you don't switch the battery(s) while motor is running either, so shouldn't cause any issues the way it is.

Something i just thought about the distributor, aside from the safety issue, in theory it shouldn't work well in a boat anyway.. but I wonder if someone modified/pinned the weights under the rotor? (that the vacuum unit on the side would normally operate) I know stock car guys here do it all the time, tack weld them in place at full advance.. idle is rough, but advance is all in, all the time.. just a thought... but yes, that distributor is quite possibly worth something over there, as I doubt there are many around.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

You also mentioned an electric fuel pump had been added. Here lies another very serious issue IF (note the IF) that electric pump does not have a "no oil pressure" safety circuit. What that means is if the engine dies for whatever reason and the ignition is not turned off, the fuel pump will stop. Why is this so critical. Imagine the engine stopping because of a carburetor malfunction. The fuel pump keeps pumping and the engine fills with fuel. You cannot help yourself so you turn the key in an attempt to restart an engine that is now loaded up with fuel. Can you say "KABOOM?" Some oil pressure sending units have the necessary contacts for this circuit, or a separate oil pressure switch can be used. The way this works is that when cranking the engine, the fuel pump will run as it is getting power from the start circuit. When oil pressure builds and key is released, the oil pressure switch feeds the pump. If the engine dies, oil pressure drops and the pump quits and you are saved.

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Not at all what I was inferring, but that entire BOAT would have been imported from North America, no? Well, seams quite possible to me it COULD have been an automotive motor that was swapped in BEFORE he got the boat... now he says engine was replaced my a 'marine mechanic' ok, fine.. what 'marine' mechanic would drop an auto/truck HEI distributor into a marine engine??? or that carb? Guess hes right not to trust 'local' mechanics...

And not that I was trying to give you a hard time carrier82, but from the first few posts it seamed you just didn't understand what other posters were trying to tell you
...

About using Megasquirt.. its been a while since I played with it, but does it not need an oxygen sensor to work? I know they had a 'megasquirt and spark' but either way you would have to convert your motor to fuel injection.. likely easier and cheaper to just get a marine carb and iron intake, bolt it on and you are done.

I consider it quite sure the boat was imported new. In the end of 1980s, Finnish banks were giving up loans for free and without security, and all kinds of luxury products were imported in masses until the financial system capsized a couple of years later. 90% of US boats here are from that era. I could check the boat registry for this, but considering the receipt, i doubt the boat was imported with that engine.

After browsing the local forums here, it seems to be a common practice to install modified HEI distributors on boats. Some boaters consider the US safety regulations concerning distributors an overkill, and state that the USCG propane test does not match reality. We do have a maritime accident investigation board here, which investigates all serious accidents, no matter how small the boat and I found no reported incidents of boat exploding or catching fire due to improper electrical components. Remember it is quite cold in here...

Now, for me an overkill in safety is fine. I have a small son I don't want to kill by using dangerous components. But considering it is possible that some people here, even professionals, think the US regulations are not based on true risk, it might be possible that even a professional has installed the car dist and carb on this boat in violation of US regulations.

Not sure how true this is, but some even argue that on some older european models of Volvo Penta do not originally have sealed / marine rated distributors (mechanical "CSB", or is it "SBC" distributor? No further details provided). You do understand my point, though? As i'm not bound by US regulations, if I spend cash on something, it really must be necessary. I think I do have the right to question the necessity of a marine rated distributor, as legistlation is seldom perfect anywhere in the world. I think I'll replace it anyway, being near the carburetor, altough that will be marine in the next season, might still fail and an explosive atmosphere can occur that could, at least in theory, be ignited by the distributor.

MegaSquirt requires multiple sensors. Just a thought - if I need a new intake manifold, i might as well get one for fuel injection. But switching to MS requires quite bit of involvement, I will likely settle for a marine carb.

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

You also mentioned an electric fuel pump had been added. Here lies another very serious issue IF (note the IF) that electric pump does not have a "no oil pressure" safety circuit.

I will check the wiring of the fuel pump as well. If it is not properly wired, I will get it fixed at some point. Until that, I will have to make sure I immediately switch off ignition in case the engine stalls.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

In your country are boats sold with Volvo Penta or Mercruiser power? If so the the right parts should be available. Expensive yes but available. The explosive danger of a gas inboard is no small matter. It is enough of a concern that some people will only have outboards. I'd save up till I could fix it properly. My boat needed new stringers and deck and I could not use it for a season. Wasn't safe. Now it's better built than new.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

After browsing the local forums here, it seems to be a common practice to install modified HEI distributors on boats.

Its not just the safety issue. The distributor you have is for an auto application and relies on vacuum and centrifugal advance. The advance curves are all messed up for a marine application. You need centrifugal only to get the proper advance for your engine or buy one like the Delco EST that does it all electronically.

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

While we are harping about the distributor, you asked what "that was on top of the distributor?" It is indeed the ignition coil. Been that way on GM cars since the mid 70's when HEI ignition came on the scene. As for the vacuum advance line, that yellow tube apparently has a bolt or something in the end of it thus plugging it so it was never used. The picture of the carb base shows two ports capped with rubber caps. One of those in an auto application would have gone to the vacuum advance unit on the distributor. As a final thought, some of the engine/outdrive factory service manuals can be downloaded from this site. You probably should spend some time reading those to avoid getting into the situation you are now in.

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Its not just the safety issue. The distributor you have is for an auto application and relies on vacuum and centrifugal advance. The advance curves are all messed up for a marine application.

The "common practice" here, at least to some extent, seems to include somehow filing the centrifugal advance of the HEI distributor and locking the vacuum advance. I'm afraid my distributor might be modified as well, as it worked so fine. That's bad news now that I'm going to sell it :grumpy: I wonder if there's an easy way to check if it's modified. I already have two shop manuals for OMC. It's just that the engine, manifolds etc. don't match to the ones on the books.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

The easy way is to see how much advance you get from your base timing as you increase the RPM of the engine. When the engine is running, you should be getting over 20? of advance from your base timing at 3000RPM or so.

For example, if your base timing is 10? your total advance will be 30?

 

[carrier82]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Bruce, is that the initial+mechanical advance curve for the HEI dist without vacuum control, or is that what it should be when a distributor is suitable for marine engine?

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

HEI advance kits used to be about $4 hear. my last one cost me $11. without knowing the history, and knowing that HEI advance kits are as easy to buy as a 6-pack of ones favorite beverage, the curve and advance would have to be tested, or mapped.

selling a GM HEI distributor in europe should not be a problem. I know of a few hot-rodders over there that had trouble finding distributors for SBC's

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

Bruce, is that the initial+mechanical advance curve for the HEI dist without vacuum control, or is that what it should be when a distributor is suitable for marine engine?

The HEI distributor will only have so much mechanical advance. It relies on the vacuum advance to get the rest of it. Not knowing what your distributor has, it could have 10? mechanical and 10? vacuum. If you only ran with 10? mechanical, the extra amount of fuel you would be using over a years time, because your engine is not running efficiently, could pay the cost for the correct distributor.

When I say mechanical advance, its possible the advance is done electronically and not with weights. I think that is what Scott is alluding to.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Went to check my boat, end up with a removed cylinder head

yes

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-929g/overview/

$8 plus shipping