Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

[Raghauler]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Good article, samagee. I am a middle-of-the-road American... I believe in many of the ideals of both parties. But the war on terrorism and being proactive in fighting off another 9/11 before it happens is the resolve I personally adopted on that horrible Tuesday morning. The world has changed, and it's time to play serious hard ball with these murdering cowards. I won't forget it, and I won't change my mind. It sums up why I truly fear the Democratic party in this new century. Their ideals will not allow us to stand up to terrorism. They are too soft.<br /><br />And Plywoody, we did try a new tact. It was GWB. Before him, we let the Taliban do what they wanted. We allowed Al-Qaeda to train it's cowards to kill innocent human beings. From burning Embassies to the USS Cole, we all assumed that since it is off shore, it’s OK, and Clinton and the Democrats were our leader. And you are concerned that GWB has deteriorated our relationships with European nations? Why should we give a cr@p? Germany released the terrorists within months of killing Israeli athletes at the '72 Munich Olympics. On Oct. 7, 1985, 69 year old disabled Leon Klinghoffer sat in his wheelchair aboard the Achilles Lauro cruise ship as four Palestinian terrorists shot then threw him overboard. The Italian government immediately sent Mohammed Abul Abbas, the mastermind of the hijacking to Yugoslavia for safety. The apprehended Palestinian hijackers were tried and sent to Italian prisons where they later escaped. GWB is the change… this is the new America, and it is necessary for our very survival. Damn everyone else if we need to… If that’s the corner they back us into, than so be it. It’s a post 9/11 world. The rules have changed.<br /><br />Regardless of your opinion of Iraq, I am not fickle, and I still believe that in the big picture, Iraq left alone would have certainly resulted in another 9/11. There is no doubt of that in my mind, none. For Democrats, it seems, we have to wait until we’re kicked in the crotch, and then, we still shouldn’t do anything… 9/11 proves this.<br /><br />Democrats are so out of touch, except with their own personal feel-good feelings, that we will be a bunch of fickle pacifists that will inevitably succumb to murder and tyranny, and it will mean the end of the United States if they don’t change their act quickly…<br /><br />As for the protesters, yes, it is their right to speak out. But the sheep really should be careful for what they wish for. Muslim extremists don’t like them any better than they like me.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

He's back....<br /><br />A little data is in order. The numbers come from memory so the they may be a bit off. A newspaper polled the demonstrators and found this:<br /><br />Who are they? 80% came from NYC or surrounding area<br /><br />65% are agianst the war in Afghanistan. Afghanistan!<br /><br />Then, another poll of Democrats found that over 50% think that American misdeeds abroad caused 911.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

The Not Quite Peaceful Protest in New York City<br />by Marinka Peschmann, Special to Canada Free Press <br /><br />August 31, 2004<br /><br />President Bush’s face superimposed on Osama Bin Laden’s was one of the many signs waving among the throng of protesters of all ages and nationalities who converged Sunday in New York City in what has been described as the largest protest ever during a political convention. <br /><br />Organized by the group, ‘United for Peace and Justice,’ under the blazing hot sun a hullabaloo of noise and visuals ringed through the streets. Competing complaints fought to be heard over marching bands with tubas, bongo drums, upside-down buckets drums, bells, whistles, and make shift noisemakers of soda cans filled with sand or rocks. <br /><br />Self-described anarchists carried black and red flags, protested both the Republicans and Democrats. There were socialists, communists, Cuban flags, rainbow flags and a group who carried giant cutout doves on poles. A unisex cluster of ‘cheerleaders’ in black and pink short skirts and ripped fishnet stockings broke into some incoherent cheer while one man with a huge American flag, walked around them saying, ‘God Bless America.’<br /><br />The signs, prominently anti-Bush, were mainly homemade featuring a wide range of messages; "No One Died When Clinton Lied,’ ‘George Bush Hijacked Our Grief and Flew it to Iraq,’ ‘Kerry Approves of Baby Killing,’ and ‘Bring the Troops Home.’ The more comical, ‘My Dog Hates George Bush,’ ‘Help the environment, Plant a Bush in Texas,’ and ‘More Football--Less War,’ lightened the mood and battled against the unprintable messages with swastikas and salacious messages including, ‘The Only Bush I Trust is My Own.’ Some protesters showed their displeasure marching clad in Halloween like skull faces while others wore T-shirts that read, ‘We Want Jobs Not War.’<br /><br />Two local New Yorkers, ‘Kalin’ and Gloria Mills came out ‘inspired’ by the Plaza Hotel demonstration on Friday that made headlines and resulted in several arrests and injured one police officer, mimicked their message with smaller versions of the sign ‘Truth’ and ‘Bush’ with opposing arrows. <br /><br />In front of the Hotel Pennsylvania, the temporary home to several delegates and members of the media right across from Madison Square Gardens, Randall Terry, ‘President For Truth and Justice,’ coordinated ‘Operation Witness’, comprised of RNC volunteers to counter the protesters and defend the Bush Administration. "If we pull out of Iraq there will be massive bloodshed," said Terry, ‘Women will be oppressed and they will curse these women who are marching here.’ Over the NYPD guarded blockades dueling arguments flew, with protesters giving ‘Operation Witness’ the finger, chanting ‘Shame’ and ‘Four More Months’ at volunteer Dubaldi who was there to ‘show support for my country and party,’ and clashed with the protesters, "Keep walking…" Dubaldi said, ‘Walk like the French…’ was called an ‘imbecile’ and a ‘Terrorist.’ <br /><br />At the corner of West 33rd and 7 Avenue a dragon shaped float made out of what appeared to be paper-mache accompanied by a giant sign, ‘Don't Just Vote Take Action,’ suddenly is sent ablaze. A thick cloud of smoke billows upwards momentarily throwing the parade into gridlock, a total standstill. Swiftly the parade is diverted around the corner, just a few feet away from the Gardens. Several firefighters emerge quickly extinguishing the flames, followed by phalanx of NYPD in riot gear with plastic handcuffs who quell what could have turned into utter mayhem. Overhead, helicopters hover. Over the course of four hours a couple of stink bombs are tossed out from within the crowd. <br /><br />Thirty-eight year old William Cooke a father of three and 37-year-old Steve Ryan stop in front of the RNC volunteers and lip-locked showing their message that ‘Intolerance is a beautiful thing.’<br /><br />Twenty-five year-old Bryan Martin from New York carrying a professional sign, 'No Draft. No Way…’ couldn’t explain why he was voting for John Kerry when confronted with the fact that the Democrats had brought up the draft, not the Republicans; then he admitted that he was given this sign to carry when he checked in. <br /><br />At the end, protesters solemnly carried make-ship coffins of cardboard draped in black fabric and the American flag to symbolize the death of each American soldier who has died in Iraq. This correspondent couldn't find any coffins carried in memory of the Iraqis found murdered in the mass graves at the hands of Saddam Hussein. Over one hundred arrests were made.

 

[samagee]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Isn't that interesting that people actually think Clinton didn't cause any deaths. So no Americans died in Bosnia then? The same Bosnia that Bin Laden was involved in as well. What about the mounting evidence that there was Al queda ties to Timothy Mcvea? Didn't that happen on Clinton's watch?

 

[dick]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

What about the mounting evidence that there was Al queda ties to Timothy Mcvea?

That made my day, thanks.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

v.good article chioce Ralphy... <br />wonder how such a demonstration would have played<br />out under sadam in bagdad?<br />don't be dismayed y'all... this is what makes this<br />country great IMHO.<br />a right to be heard for all, even if most consider<br />rediculous. don't worry, most know the real score<br />IMHO and will vote accordingly

 

[aspeck]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Thanks for the link samagee

 

[SCO]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Samagee, we all remember the middle eastern man they were looking for at the time of the Oklahoma bombing. This is not just a witch hunt, that middle eastern connection needs scrutiny now that we know who we are dealing with. Has that investigation turned up more than the face value suspicion?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Maybe some of my liberal friends can help me with this question (SCOs post reminded me of it).<br /><br />Why did Clinton et al, have no problem killing innocent women and children in this country on Ruby Ridge and Wacco Texas over simple arms charges, but not srike UBL for fear of doing the same?

 

[12Footer]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

This is a C&P;<br /><br />"THE ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER"<br /> THE ORIGINAL VERSION (an Aesop's fable)... <br /><br />The ant busts his butt in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter so he dies out in the cold. <br />The moral of this original version; 'Work hard, and be self-reliant, and reap the rewards in hard times'.<br /><br />THE NEW VERSION........<br /> The ant busts his butt in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter....<br /> so the grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and starving. CBS, NBC, and ABC show up and show pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to film of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. <br /><br />America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can it be, in a country of such wealth that this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Then a representative of the NAAGB (The National Association of Green Bugs) shows up on Night Line and charges the ant with "Green Bias" and makes the case that the grasshopper is the victim of 30 million years of greenism. Kermit the frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when he sings "It's Not Easy Being Green." <br /><br />Bill and Hillary Clinton make a special guest appearance on the CBS evening news and tell a concerned Dan Rather That they will do everything they can for the grasshopper who has been denied the prosperity he deserves by those who benefited unfairly during the summer, or as Bill refers to it, the "Temperatures Of The 80's". <br /><br />Finally the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equity and Anti-Greenism Act" RECTRO-ACTIVE to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and having nothing left to pay his Retro-Active taxes, his home is confiscated by the government. <br /><br />The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he's in....which just happens to be the ant's old house.... crumbles around him since he doesn't know how to maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow.<br />The grasshopper is found dead from a drug-related incident.<br />THE MORAL OF THIS VERSION; <br />Vote Republican.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

From FOX NEWS, Bill O'Reilly:<br /><br />

"Over in the opposing camp, things are not going so well. Senator Kerry's poll numbers are dropping a bit. And he's lost momentum because of the swift boat business.<br /><br />The people protesting the convention are actually helping President Bush. We'll explain that a bit later on. And the left-leaning press is having a hard time this week fueling anti-Bush feeling.<br /><br />The New York Times, for example, kicked off the convention, demanding that the Electoral College be thrown out. The Times, which has become the chief proponent of a new secular progressive America, wants a straight popular vote.<br /><br />Of course, The Times knows that just nine states hold half the population, thus a politician could ignore 41 states and actually win the election, promising massive entitlements for the few.<br /><br />But there is no way the progressives will ever win in this country as long as traditional folks in the smaller states have some power. So that's what The New York Times is up to."

There is legitimate political discent, then there is what you have in New York. The Extreme Political Left on full display in New York. <br />Note they are not protesting "for" something. They are simply out to destroy a President and anyone who would support him. It is reported overnight that GOP delegates were "physically assulted" returning to their hotels. That's free speech?<br /><br />So, what are they "for"? Bill O'Rielly's comments above about the New York Times may give a glimpse. The Left is for "political change". The minority who are fueling these protests want radical change in America. Change towards a Communist/Socialist form of life. <br /><br />The left is for "free speech" and "equal rights". They demand the rights to say and do whatever they see fit. Yet, they demand things like the ads and the book by the Swift Boat Veterans be done away with. <br /><br />It all reminds me of the book I was forced to read in school. ANIMAL FARM by George Orwell.<br />To paraphraze the ending...<br /><br />All speech is free and equal... but some speech is more free and equal than others.<br /><br />It is the Radical Left that is protesting in New York .<br />It is the Radical Left that is trying to limit the "free speech" of others.<br />It is the Radical Left trying to eliminate the Electoral College, marginalizing the votes of millions on Americans.<br />It is the Radical Left who is driving the goings on and hijacked the Demoratic Party.<br /><br />THINK ABOUT IT DEMOCRATS!

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Mrbscott, you have asked no intelligent questions deserving an intelligent answer. I've had exchanges with you in the past, and I know it's a waste of time. I have a fencepost in my back yard I'd rather argue with. It's far more gratifying that way.

 

[KaGee]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

From the NEW YORK TIMES<br /><br />

<br />August 31, 2004<br />CONFRONTATIONS <br />Protesters' Encounters With Delegates on the Town Turn Ugly<br />By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD<br /> <br />utside a hotel in Times Square, delegates to the Republican National Convention were swarmed by protesters dressed in black and swearing at them. Blocks away, delegates engaged in shoving matches with protesters seeking to spoil their night at the theater. And outside "The Lion King" on 42nd Street, a delegate was punched by a protester who ran by.<br /><br />Although the organized protests yesterday and Sunday have been largely peaceful, there has been a starkly different tone to smaller incidents in Midtown and elsewhere: angry encounters and planned harassment of convention delegates as they go out on the town.<br /><br />Sometimes the delegates answer back in toe-to-toe, finger-pointing shouting matches. Other times the police, who are guarding delegate gatherings, have dispersed protesters, who move on to other locations to taunt other delegates.<br /><br />The harassment of delegates came as organized protests continued to draw thousands of people. The Still We Rise march by advocates for social issues was peaceful, and a Poor People's March, a column several blocks long, proceeded from the United Nations to the Madison Square Garden yesterday after the police decided to let it go ahead without a permit.<br /><br />When marchers approached the Garden, a police detective was knocked off his scooter. He was then repeatedly kicked and punched in the head by at least one male demonstrator, the police said. <br /><br />The detective, William Sample, was listed in serious condition at St. Vincent's Manhattan Hospital, where Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly both visited him, the police said. There was no immediate word of an arrest in the assault, but as of 9 p.m., the police said there had been 11 protest-related arrests.<br /><br />

Yeppers.... really good class of people.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Great article KaGee -<br /><br />The hypocrisy is just staggering. They don't want to fight the terrorists and want "peace" yet they have no problem attacking their fellow Americans.<br /><br />They didn't want to kill UBL because they may hurt women and children or damage a mosque, yet they have no problem killing "right wingers" in Waco and Ruby Ridge.... They want "human rights" but have no problem with Islamo-fascists treating women like cattle or Saddam slaughtering 100s of thousands. The hypocrisy is just staggering! Staggering!

 

[samagee]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

SCO, I'll post the links later. I have to go back and get them from what I was reading. There is a couple of books out also. I don't remember the titles. There is more evidence, and there are questions as to why the FBI took some evidence and it disapeared. Apparently there were some videos that they have not been able to locate, since it was handed over to invistigators. The associates of Mcvae's were seen the day before, or a couple days before, at a Travelers Aide location trying to get money. These associates were with a middle eastern man that was ID'd as manap something or other. There is another name they use for him as well that starts with an L. Apparently they were driving Mcvae's beat up car with no plates. The lady remembers them because they got in her face when she told them she could not give them money with out an ID. One of the men flipped her off when leaving. She said no wonder they didn't want to show ID, the car doesn't have any plates.<br /><br />There is a bunch more to the story, you will have to read it if I can find the information again.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Absolutely wonderful people that the PW's and Rolmops have chosen to side with. But I guess that falls under the vail of tolerance and inclusiveness.<br /><br />Lest one try to argue that these people are just the fringe, go back a revisit all the weirdos at the Democratic Convention.<br /><br />This is where they want to take America. Anyone on board????

 

[SCO]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

No one is onboard, and that train isn't going to make it out of the station. We're going to see another primal scream( I think Peter Jennings coined that term) from the good and gentle people of this country come November. We'll get you to 105 JB..

 

[PW2]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Who suggested I sided with them, anyway? If they are part of the group that particiapated in the WTO protests in Seattle and elsewhere, for example, then they are idiots. To the extent that any of them violated the law, including assault and threatening assault to delegates, they certainly should be arrested and charged.<br /><br />To the extent they are simply protesting actions in the war, or other Bush policies, or the notion that somehow the flag draped coffins returning from that war cannot be photgraphed, which I find offensive, then that is their right.<br /><br />But none of them represent me, or the Democrats I support any more than a bunch of skinheads or Klan members, or Tim McVeigh types represent conservatives.<br /><br />Now Raghauler, yours is an interesting post that I would like to respond to:<br /><br />You wrote"<br />And Plywoody, we did try a new tact. It was GWB. Before him, we let the Taliban do what they wanted. We allowed Al-Qaeda to train it's cowards to kill innocent human beings. From burning Embassies to the USS Cole, we all assumed that since it is off shore, it’s OK, and Clinton and the Democrats were our leader."<br />---<br /><br />Well, if you read either the 9-11 commission report, or Richard Clarke's book, or both, you will see that there is plenty of blame to go around here, whether it is aimed at Clinton, or the FBI, or the CIA, or the Bush administration. And the CIA and FBI had not even officially decided that Alqaida was responsible for the Cole attack until after Clinton left office. I know it is easy and fun to demonize one person or group in this regard, but unfortunately, it isn't accurate, and wrong information up front often leads to incorrect conclusions, and inappropriate actions.<br /><br />_____<br /><br /> And you are concerned that GWB has deteriorated our relationships with European nations? Why should we give a cr@p? Germany released the terrorists within months of killing Israeli athletes at the '72 Munich Olympics. On Oct. 7, 1985, 69 year old disabled Leon Klinghoffer sat in his wheelchair aboard the Achilles Lauro cruise ship as four Palestinian terrorists shot then threw him overboard. The Italian government immediately sent Mohammed Abul Abbas, the mastermind of the hijacking to Yugoslavia for safety. The apprehended Palestinian hijackers were tried and sent to Italian prisons where they later escaped.<br />-----------<br /><br />Yes, I am concerned. I too am apalled at some of the actions of some countries involved in the past, as I am apalled by many injustices that have happened in this country. Injustices happen. And shortly after 9/11 the headline read in the French paper, and it was seemingly shared by a vast majority of Europeans "We are all Americans today". We had a huge amount of political capital to lead the world in this fight against Islamic Extremism, and virtually everyone was with us when we rightly went after the Taliban in Afghanistan, and terorists on the run in Tora Bora, etc. We had the Germans, the French, the Canadians, even the Pakistani government on our side in this endeavor. While one can argue with the tactics employed, few could argue with the goal.<br />______________<br />you wrote <br />"GWB is the change… this is the new America, and it is necessary for our very survival. Damn everyone else if we need to… If that’s the corner they back us into, than so be it. It’s a post 9/11 world. The rules have changed."<br />quote off<br /><br />--------<br /><br />I don't think the rules have changed. Clearly GWB had the world behind him, including many countries in the Mid East--clearly he had democrats behind him--in this endeavor to root the world from Islamic extremists--"To hunt them down and bring them to justice"<br /><br />Until Iraq (And it should be pointed out that Germany have arrested many Islamic terrorists even after Iraq)<br /><br />----------<br />you wrote<br /><br />"Regardless of your opinion of Iraq, I am not fickle, and I still believe that in the big picture, Iraq left alone would have certainly resulted in another 9/11. There is no doubt of that in my mind, none. For Democrats, it seems, we have to wait until we’re kicked in the crotch, and then, we still shouldn’t do anything… 9/11 proves this."<br /><br />quote off<br />------<br /><br />Well, I am indeed on record on this board, from long before the Iraq war started, saying that it was a mistake, that it would result in a relatively easy military victory, followed by a quagmire and the peace from hell.<br /><br />The problem with your argument is while it is often said that Iraq was a direct and imminent ("or great and gathering" if you prefer) threat to us, no one has explained exactly how they were a threat. Even if they had WMD's, how were they to deliver them?? They had no airplanes, they had a few missiles that maybe had a range a few km's beyond the limits of what the UN allowed.<br />We had sanctions in place--and a no fly zone--we knew their military was a just a shell of what it was in the pre-Gulf War days--even Israel wasn't particularly worried about Iraq.<br /><br />Now there is the argument that they might supply these weapons to terrorists...Ok, so if we were really worried about this, we would have sent enough troops in to secure at least the myriad of weapons caches thoughout, and stopped the superhighway of people going to and from Iraq from Syria and Iran---<br />But we never sent in enough troops to even stop looting, let alone secure the country.<br /><br />And terrorists can find weapons from all sorts of real sources, including Iran and North Korea to name a couple, and these two both have nukes.<br /><br />------<br />you wrote:<br /><br />"Dmocrats are so out of touch, except with their own personal feel-good feelings, that we will be a bunch of fickle pacifists that will inevitably succumb to murder and tyranny, and it will mean the end of the United States if they don’t change their act quickly…"<br /><br />quote off><br /><br />I completely reject this characterization. This is a complex struggle against terrorists that is going to require all manner of cooperation and strength--military strength at times, but at all times smarts.<br /><br />The cowboy approach, even if in the short term it feels good, long term it won't work. It may feel like you are accomplishing something when you go after that hornets nest with a baseball bat, but it won't necessarily solve the problem with the hornets.<br /><br />I personally consider myself neither weak, nor a pacivist, but first and foremost we need to do this in a way that is effective and smart.<br /><br />And I have no idea what to do in Iraq now. I predicted it being an unsolvable situation on this board long before the war started, and nothing at all has happened to change my mind.<br /><br />How a democracy will work, when you have a Shiite majority that would set up a theocracy, and give the Sunni and Kurd minorities no voice is beyond me.<br /><br />Hey, John Kerry was not my first choice either, and I would vote for someone like Colin Powell in a heartbeat if it were possible. But of course we have not really heard about him for a while--he is no longer a featured player in this administration, and will be gone in a second term guaranteed. And we will be left with nothing but neocon cowboys swinging baseball bats at one hornets nest or the other, and explaining who is at fault for why it is not working. <br /><br />BTW, Even George Sr (41) knew this about Iraq, and is the big reason he did not continue into Baghdad when he had the chance. He wrote about it in his book, but unfortunately Bush (43) listens to a "different" father.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Originally posted by PW2:<br /> But none of them represent me, or the Democrats I support any more than a bunch of skinheads or Klan members, or Tim McVeigh types represent conservatives.

Now PW, that is one lame analogy. Where was the KKK, the skinheads or the Tim McVeigh types at the Republican Convention, hmmm? Were any of them sitting in the box with GB Sr. Were any of them demonstrating against against the Democratic Convention on behalf of GWB? <br /><br />My Mother used to admonish me that I will be judged by the company I keep. I have no doubt she would have meant politically, as well. IMHO I hold you to the same standard.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Voting Democratic??? Take a look!

Nothing worth doing is ever easy or fast or simple. As RG pointed out last night, we tried the Liberal "smart way" for 30 years and all it did was encourage bigger and bigger atrocities. <br /><br />Like I said, Clinton had a couple of DOCUMENTED chances to kill UBL but balked because there may be collateral damage. yet, the same admin had no problem shooting a mother in the head while she held her infant or a 13-year old boy in the back or writing "rules of engagement" that allowed agents to shoot to kill anybody on that ridge (later found to be unconstitutional by the Supreme Court). He had no problem bulldozing a building filled with women and children in Waco with tanks and watch while they all burn to death. AND NOT ONE STINKING WORD from the Left! Not one word. The hypocrisy is staggering.<br /><br />We as a nation decided to take the fight to the enemy - all of them and that's just what we are going to do. Like Ed Koch says, this issues trumps all and the Democrats just don't have the stomach for it. So sit back, have a drink, and get out of the way. Don't undermine our efforts and make the job tougher than it already is.