UK sailors captured at gunpoint

[OldMercsRule]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Well Murk, I vigorously disagree about many a liberal's belief in man's fundamental goodness.

[colour=blue]Hmmmmmm, show me any Lib philosophy that assumes man is good. I cant see any. Liberalism seems ta be a *'mental illness' ta me, (not an origional statement here: see below for footnote).[/colour]

It is a cornerstone of a lot of their rhetoric especially the one about no need for religion . . .

[colour=blue]I think you are real wrong here again. Their religion is BIG GOVERNMENT: QC![/colour]

But contradiction is required for most liberal doctrine which makes it OK to label conservatives as fundamentally bad, so there ya go . . I stand by my assertions.

[colour=blue]Liberalism is based of feelin's QC, the contradictions are the *'mental illness' part. (*as stated by Dr. Wiener) illogic to the rest of us.[/colour]

Yes, I know there are many exceptions, just refer to my necessity of contradiction statement if you need to make sense of it . . .

[colour=blue]I guess we will have ta agree ta disagree QC! JR[/colour]

 

[QC]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

It is a cornerstone of a lot of their rhetoric especially the one about no need for religion . . .

[colour=blue]I think you are real wrong here again. Their religion is BIG GOVERNMENT: QC![/colour]

Well we can agree to disagree, but you must consider that you will not get one liberal to admit their belief in government is a religion, so how is that a contradiction? . . . Oh and BTW, it is Health and the Environment that are their religions . . .

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

It is a cornerstone of a lot of their rhetoric especially the one about no need for religion . . .

[colour=blue]I think you are real wrong here again. Their religion is BIG GOVERNMENT: QC![/colour]

Well we can agree to disagree, but you must consider that you will not get one liberal to admit their belief in government is a religion, so how is that a contradiction? . . .

[colour=blue]The fact that Libs will not admit the truth does not prove anything: QC.[/colour] ps: the Libs even have a psychobabble word for what yer talkin' 'bout: IT'S CALLED "DENIAL": QC!! 8):$

Oh and BTW, it is Health and the Environment that are their religions . . .

[colour=blue]QC: please don't cornfuse the 'tactics' of Liberals with thier religion. Tactic: scare the population about something they can identify n' "feel": health care or environment. Most Cornservatives also "feel" but make decisions after critical thinkin' about facts n' history n' assumptions about the 'nature of man', (generally possitive; not negative: like Libs, [jus' think of Lib rhetoric n' please review Michael Medved's thread that I posted a few days back]). The tactic of fear based on feelin's leads to votin' higher taxes n' bigger government which Libs all feel better about, ('cause their god is doin' their part with yer money QC). Sorry my rants don't lead ya to a logical cornclusion. Again: we shall agree to dissagree. Murky's brain cell thinks it has Libs figured out, n' yer take is sooooooo full of holes, (that you characterize as a contradiction), Murky would need a much bigger brain or somethin ta scramble ol' Murky's cell, (like Rolmops' smoke), ta even begin ta understand yer twisted logic: QC. Respectfully JR[/colour]

 

[JB]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Well, I have a comment or two here.

Off topic: When you start putting thoughts and motives into your adversary, then attacking them as though they were facts, rather than your own inventions, you have abandoned debate for argument. It really cheapens and weakens your position. Knock off the bull about liberals' motives and religion. You don't know what you are talking about.

On topic:
"I know war as few men living know war and I can tell you that noone detests it more than I do."

"History shows with unmistakable emphasis that appeasement but begets new and bloodier war."

Douglas MacArthur

Talking and negotiating is not necessarily appeasement. Shooting from the hip without exhausting possibilities for peaceful resolution with honor is just plain stupid.

The government of Iran is playing the same game that Saddam played. Defy the UN and the world, boast about how powerful they are, provoke incident after incident with "the west". Saddam (and the world) paid a high price for his game of brinksmanship.

Are we willing to pay a similar price to punish Iran? Did Iran learn anything from Saddam's experience? Did we learn anything from what we are involved in now?

We are in a war on terrorism. . . radical Muslim terrorism to be more precise. They know better than to use conventional warfare. It would only end in their extermination. But a guerrilla war allows small numbers to defeat large numbers. As long as they see any farfetched hope that they may prevail the war will continue. Only when they see that they will have a better chance of success by stopping will it end. . . diplomatically.

It is not a war that we can end by withdrawing.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Strike now!

 

[OldMercsRule]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Well, I have a comment or two here.

Off topic: When you start putting thoughts and motives into your adversary,

[colour=blue]JB: I don't cornsider anyone here on iboats an "adversary". I think you are the one with a label here.[/colour]

then attacking them as though they were facts, rather than your own inventions, you have abandoned debate for argument.

[colour=blue]They are my observations JB, that I do cornsider an accurate organization of Left and Liberals' well known policies. I have stated these since I started posting here on iboats DC. You may cornsider these observations Murky's "inventions" and you are the Moderator here. I cornsider my posts to be debate. You can characterize them any way you wish, and have the power to ZAP what you don't like. [/colour]

It really cheapens and weakens your position.

[colour=blue]I guess clarity is cheap and weak eh JB?[/colour]

Knock off the bull about liberals' motives and religion.

[colour=blue]OK I'm done. [/colour]

You don't know what you are talking about.

[colour=blue]Same to ya.[/colour]

 

[QC]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

JB,

In response I will say that I used the fundamental goodness argument as a general description of a belief held by many (not all) "liberals". And despite Murk's vigorous, but unconvincing opposition, I actually believe that. It was used in direct response to another's comments and questions in this thread, and despite your assertion, was at the time, on topic.

I also used "liberals" in quotes as I, like you, don't really like those labels, but there are needs for labels to be descriptive, and until someone comes up with a better word for those that are generally associated with the left of the political spectrum I, for one, will keep using it.

I did not really intend it as a religious discussion although I can see how Murk received it that way. I do, however, feel that "bull" is not consistent with the qualitative level of my assertion, nor consistent with my use of a generality, nor automatically necessary whenever you feel that religion is invading your personal sense of logical discussion.

Generalities and stereotypes are used by all of us every day. I completely understand your need to feel above them, because I felt that way once. The fact is that all of us are discriminating individuals, that's what separates us from animals. Generalizations include things like assuming that retired guys with white beards that drive Mercedes, have been responsible with their money, appreciate fine machinery, and lead reasonably comfortable lives. Accurate for all retired guys with white beards in Mercedes? Of course not. Most? I would say probably . . .

If your swipe was reserved for Murky or TG, then never mind . . .

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Well, I have a comment or two here.

Off topic: When you start putting thoughts and motives into your adversary, then attacking them as though they were facts, rather than your own inventions, you have abandoned debate for argument. It really cheapens and weakens your position. Knock off the bull about liberals' motives and religion. You don't know what you are talking about.

On topic:
"I know war as few men living know war and I can tell you that noone detests it more than I do."

"History shows with unmistakable emphasis that appeasement but begets new and bloodier war."

Douglas MacArthur

Talking and negotiating is not necessarily appeasement. Shooting from the hip without exhausting possibilities for peaceful resolution with honor is just plain stupid.

The government of Iran is playing the same game that Saddam played. Defy the UN and the world, boast about how powerful they are, provoke incident after incident with "the west". Saddam (and the world) paid a high price for his game of brinksmanship.

Are we willing to pay a similar price to punish Iran? Did Iran learn anything from Saddam's experience? Did we learn anything from what we are involved in now?

We are in a war on terrorism. . . radical Muslim terrorism to be more precise. They know better than to use conventional warfare. It would only end in their extermination. But a guerrilla war allows small numbers to defeat large numbers. As long as they see any farfetched hope that they may prevail the war will continue. Only when they see that they will have a better chance of success by stopping will it end. . . diplomatically.

It is not a war that we can end by withdrawing.

Good postion to come from JB, i just thought id stike a nerve or too. Perhap's this is why the debate's get so heated

http://www.answers.com/topic/anwar-al-sadat

No matter what is said and debated that action changed the world forever. You see they felt they did have the right to survive, and after 30 years of police action's, political favor's, financial incentive's, UN resolution's,armed intervention's, and death threat's (Gadaphi cooled his heel's a bit didnt it) We had 911, Spain and now it's going to stop? Here i am sorry i cannot agree with you, history has shown they do not, they just futher

up the anti every time.

If indeed we are hit with a nuke or Israel or the uk or any free western society the result will be .......... hell you guess............ they have the will, and the warped sense of drive to do just that......

So peace out, there's a old chinese proverb that say's:

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Haut, I gotta respect ya. We don't agree on many points, but the fact that you're willing to punish a country who illegally captured soldiers of an ally nation....I gotta respect ya man.

My respect for ya' has gone through the roof.

OMR, you're right, one thing a nation can't ignore is a slow decimation of its territory. If you flatten places and kill people you will show them that there are consequences to actions such as what they took.

Libs, they know one thing, power. Military, to be specific.

 

[JB]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Well, that got your attention, didn't it.

With this habit everyone seems to be getting into of quoting endless qoutes of other quotes it is difficult to identify who, exactly, made the statements I objected to (not because I disagree with them, but because they are merely constructed to discredit without facts).

There is no evidence that the liberals (that I identified as adversaries) see no need for religion or deliberately use tactics of fear to intimidate the populace. To say so is to put motives and thoughts into their heads. Interpretation is not fact. Further, that topic is only by the remotest stretch related to the thread topic.

You need to decide if the shoe fits.

My job here is to try to keep debate civil. Perhaps I should delete remarks I see as inflammatory or inappropriate, rather than trying to steer discussion back on topic and back to civility.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Well said, in every social invoriment there need's to be standards. It is how civlization learn's to grow and develop becoming a cohesive body for the good of all,

Without this we would have anarchy, somewhat similar to the dark ages......................

 

[QC]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

This from the guy that got me in trouble . . . ^^

:= 8) Well, maybe it was Murky, nah, I'm goin' with TG

 

[Link]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Haut, I gotta respect ya. We don't agree on many points, but the fact that you're willing to punish a country who illegally captured soldiers of an ally nation....I gotta respect ya man.

My respect for ya' has gone through the roof.

First I agree with JB with keeping on topic.

But that is why I made this statement:
"I will let our religious leaders here on iboats figure this out.
Hault, Aspect, and Rolmops"

I disagree with all three on many levels.
And they do also, but each of them will always give a honest answer/reply as they see things.

And I respect that.

They also provide a balance here on iboats.

This post is a little to close to home for me.
Don't trust Art!
He is just a "Fat Boy American" who wears a baseball cap backwards!...

Thanks again Art for emails and support!
Link

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Remember way back in the beginning, when I said the brits wouldn't do anything but talk? I do.

I remember most of the folks jumping on me and accusing me of being anti-brit. Where are you now?

Some of my british buds told me how they had a strong resolve and action was imminent... now they seem to be the ones demanding we do nothing! Talk it out... beg for mercy. That's just what I said they would do.

 

[jimlad]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Hi Rubberfrog i dont thing for one second you are anti-brit nor do i believe we are begging for mercy but i repeat my question in that what would a strike on iran actually solve besides the obvious of killing millions for just 15

i have to admit though i have been watching it all unfold on the news and it is getting pretty tense but also quite petty iranians changing there minds on this and that we wont bow to there demands for admittance to anything but we wont have a confrontation either but something does need to happen now



Lisa

 

[oddjob]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Something needs to happen......but what?......

 

[Vlad D Impeller]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

A naval blockade would be a good start.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Hi Rubberfrog i dont thing for one second you are anti-brit

Thanks Lisa. I love you guys. Except I have to admit that I once had a girl dump me for a guy with a brit accent. I don't even think it was a real one! :devil: It took me a while to come back around to liking you... 8)

nor do i believe we are begging for mercy

That was meant more for effect...

but i repeat my question in that what would a strike on iran actually solve besides the obvious of killing millions for just 15

A strike the first time they took your boys would have ensured that you didn't have 15 more being brutalized this time...

i have to admit though i have been watching it all unfold on the news and it is getting pretty tense but also quite petty iranians changing there minds on this and that we wont bow to there demands for admittance to anything but we wont have a confrontation either but something does need to happen now

Something needs to happen... more talk? Or is it time to make a stand against Islamofascists?

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Vlad has an excellent idea........
Cut off their gulf ports, & see how they like them apples......

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Re: UK sailors captured at gunpoint

Vlad has an excellent idea........
Cut off their gulf ports, & see how they like them apples......

How about we blow up their ports?