TWO STROKE OIL

catfish

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
45
THIS IS A OLD DOG TO BEAT, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK OF TWO STROKE OIL. THE WALL-MART OIL VERSUS AN OIL LIKE PENZOIL OR YAMAHA OIL? :rolleyes:
 

ajp

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jan 6, 2002
Messages
280
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

If I had a new boat motor with a warrantee, I'd use the best. On my 1969 Johnson 115, I don't think it matters. <br /><br />Modern TWCIII oil is much better than the oil suggested by the manufacturer in 1969.<br /><br />Just my opinion.<br /><br />Arlan
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Mar 25, 2001
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45,907
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

Howdy, Catfish.<br /><br />Yup, an old dog.<br /><br />WalMart SuperTech is Pennzoil. For years I thought it was just a very good oil, but then found out that it is produced by Pennzoil.<br /><br />Red sky at night. . .<br />JB :)
 

catfish

Seaman Apprentice
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Feb 28, 2001
Messages
45
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

I TAKE IT THAT PENNZOIL IS A GOOD OIL THEN
 

Dman

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Mar 6, 2002
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251
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

Glad you asked the question. If all the oils are certified to meet all requirements of TCW-3, what's the difference between them? If they don't void the manufacturers warranty, shouldn't they all be the same to use? <br />Could it be that the major manufacturers are trying to make more money by recommending their own brand vs the cheaper stuff? I'm sure this is true but if they all are held to the same standard, what's the difference? I've raced Motocross bikes and used all different brands and prices, no difference in any of them and no problems either.<br />Dman
 

grandx

Petty Officer 1st Class
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May 21, 2001
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383
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

JB<br />How did you find out that super tech is made by Pennzoil? I would like to find out who makes other oils as well, but it seems to be a well kept secret.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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45,907
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

I found out right here, GrandX. We were having one of those hundred-post-sharing-of-opinion discussions and I said that SuperTech smelled and felt like Quicksilver. <br /><br />I don't remember who it was or why I accepted his word, but this guy comes back and quotes a bunch of research that comes up with Pennzoil being listed by WallyWorld as the supplier of SuperTech.<br /><br />Catfish: Anything certified TC-W3 is good oil and should not void any warranty. TC=two stroke cycle, W=water cooled, 3=third spec.<br /><br />Red sky at night. . .<br />JB :)
 

Tracy Coleman

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Mar 23, 2002
Messages
215
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

Any time you have a "have to have product" priced from $6.00-$40.00 gal., most people tend to go to the bottom until they understand that it is where the trouble starts. How many times have we heard that the "product is TCW-3 approved". That TCW-3 standard is the minimum. All the Mfg's oil exceed the minimum, some by 30% or more. Special additives that do certain things like, reduce carbon, improve mixability, protect against rust, anti foaming,etc..... may or may not be part of the cheap oil at all. Part of the problem is lack of a Consumer Reports type through test of all the good, bad, and ugly oil products. There is a wide range of engines out there, some will run on on about anything. DFI's better be fed what the MFG's say or better and better is not cheaper.<br />My choice for normal operational use is Ram Ficht with Carb-X, for all carb and efi in bulk from a Bombardier dealer,+-$14.oo gal., Yamaha YamaLube2M for all Yamahas O/B -+ $14.00 gal. bulk, Optimax Oil only for Merc OptiMax. Rest easy, you won't have a oil quality problem. If you have a warranty problem with pistons, rods, bearings, etc., the mfg. can tell you what oil you are running. The best oil can't save an improperly setup engine, over-proped so WOT is below the top rpm, or a plugged carb that starves a cylinder(s), etc.... As for Wal-Mart, Penzoil synthetic is the only oil I would buy they have on the shelf, if I wanted to spend more than $14.00, like $20.00 gal., but why? Just my view.<br />Backfire :)
 

seahorse5

Rear Admiral
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Jan 24, 2002
Messages
4,698
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

In the Aug 2000 issue, Bass and Walleye Boats lab tested TC-W3 oils to see if there were any formula differences. The only two alike were Exxon Superflow and Wallmart's Tech oil. Every other oil, OEM and aftermarket, had a different formulation, color, and viscosity.
 

John from Madison CT

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Oct 14, 2001
Messages
176
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

FWIW, I used to be in the antifreeze business and people constantly used to say, "ah common, all antifreezes are the same". <br /><br />If it helps understand the oil business in any way, let me tell you that despite all Antifreeze manufacturers claiming to pass the "tests" for certification, they all did not necessary do so.<br /><br />My company used to perform the industry standardized tests on dozens of brands of Antifreeze, and while they all claimed to be able to pass the certification (similar to TCW 3) many did not pass and some not by a long shot. ( and that applies to brands like Shell A/F etc etc.)<br /><br />Don't just trust what some of the oil guys are telling you, they may not be telling the truth. BTW, when was the last time you heard of someone suing a manufacturer of OB oil for selling inferior product. Other than their advertising how else would you know that they actually pass the TCW3 test? It's a matter of blind faith I'm afraid.<br /><br /> Personally, I do believe there are differences, in OB oil. For the amount I use in a season and for piece of mind, I buy expensive Oil, in my case Yamaha. I believe it behoves the OB manufacturers to make/sell excellent oil. If their OB's started blowing up, like the '98/'99 Fichts, you know what that does to a reputation.<br /><br />John from Madison, CT
 

catfish

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2001
Messages
45
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

what would be the correct mix for a merc 70 year 1981? im using 50:1 now?
 

Pursuit2150

Chief Petty Officer
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Dec 3, 2001
Messages
553
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

Go to yahoo and enter TC-W3 oils, and see the results of certification.
 

muskiedaze

Cadet
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
Messages
24
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

Hi, Does anyone have an opinion on the quality of Lubrimatic TCW-3 oil? I've been useing it for years in a merc 50 hp and a johnson 50 jet for many years. sure, both my motors blew up, but don't think the failures were because of the oil.A bolt backed into the crank on the merc 2 months out of warrenty because someone forgot to bend a lock tab and the johnny, well I suspect that I overloaded it way too many times for it to have survived more than 8 years. Anyway, I'm getting a new 80 HP jet and I need to make a decision . Lubrimatic is 9 bux a gallon. Name brands are twice that. OB manufactorers seem to charge twice what I'd expect to pay for parts and I think they do the same for oil. Lubrimatic oil seems to work well. Anyone have other opinions?<br />Thanks,<br />john
 

Yepblaze

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 1, 2001
Messages
1,686
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

I personally, have never been impressed with the Lubrimatic brand of products. <br /><br />I prefer to use Pennzoil Premium Blend. It gives the benefit of base oils for it's cushioning effects on rod bearings, while providing the benefits of syntetics for anti-seizure protection, and port and ring gland cleanliness.
 

crab bait

Captain
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Feb 5, 2002
Messages
3,831
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

it kills me when people talk about oils they love or hate be it automotive or two cycle .. how can you tell either way.. since it's a" blind faith " thing as JOHN FROM CT said.. it's human nature , i guess to devolpe strong faith & opinions i reckon, to make ourselves feel less vaugherable.. i always think about the makers' laughin' at us sayin' " boy , if they only knew " that X is as good a Y but 1/2 the cost.. hehehe lets keep it a secret "
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
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8,217
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

This subject pops-up more than moles in that game with the hammer!! But I understand why. We all want the absolute best qaulity/cost compromise.<br />I copied this from another great site of learning, (Marinemecahnics.com).<br />It's kinda wordy, but it de-mistifies the subject, and we need to post it here for future reference...It makes for dry,but definative reading..So here goez:<br /><br />Oil and the common person<br /><br />Marine Mechanics need to have an overall understanding of oil products. Always, refer to engine and or owners manuals for specific information, but you should be aware of the basic, yet significant, differences in the oils and lubricants used today. <br /><br />Two stroke gasoline engine oils are formulated with the following additives: <br />* Detergents to neutralize acids formed during combustion<br />* Dispersants to hold contaminants in suspension and off the metal surfaces of the engine<br />* Anti-wear agents<br />* Rust and corrosion inhibitors<br />* Polymers to reduce exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking. <br /><br />Major performance requirements of two-stroke gasoline engine oils include:<br />* Protection against ring sticking<br />* Protection against exhaust system blockage<br />* Protection against piston and cylinder scuffing<br />* Protection against deposit-induced pre-ignition<br />* Rust prevention<br />* Biodegradability <br /><br />There are two designations that a two-stroke gasoline engine oil may be classified as:<br />* American Petroleum Institute "TC"<br />* National Marine Manufacturers Association "TC-W3" <br /><br />TC-W3 quality oils are preferred by most outboard engines and personal watercraft. Some personal watercraft manufacturers, (Bombardier for example), specify not to use TC-W3 quality oils. <br /><br />TC (low-ash) and TC-W3 (ash-less) oils primary difference is in ash content. Ash content is the non-combustible portion of a lubricating oil. Many of the additives found in fully-formulated lubricating oils contain metallic, non-combustible derivatives, such as barium, calcium and magnesium. Ash-less oils must be formulated without metallic or noncombustible additives. <br /><br />In North America, four-stroke gasoline and two- and four-stroke diesel engine oils are all classified by the American Petroleum Institute. The engine manufacturers will specify the API service category and Society of Automotive Engineers viscosity grade that they prefer based on the ambient operating temperatures and the quality of oil required for the design of the engine. <br /><br />Four-stroke gasoline engine API service categories always begin with the letter S. <br />Diesel engines begin with the letter C. <br />These letters stand for "Service" and "Commercial" sometimes refereed to as... "Spark Ignition" and "Compression Ignition". <br /><br />There are five current API service categories:<br />* API SJ is for four-stroke gasoline engines.<br />* API CF-2 is for two-stroke diesel engines.<br />* API CF, CF-4 and CG4 for four-stroke diesel engines. <br /><br />The requirements of four-stroke gasoline and two- and four-stroke diesel engines, motor oils are formulated with the following additives:<br />* Anti-foaming agents<br />* Oxidation inhibitors<br />* Corrosion inhibitors<br />* Rust inhibitors<br />* Anti-wear and anti-scuff agents<br />* Detergents to neutralize acids formed during combustion<br />* Dispersants to hold contaminants in suspension and off the metal surfaces of the engine<br />* Polymers to improve the ability of the oil performance in cold temperatures and over a wide range of temperatures. <br /><br />There are three API service categories for gear oils:<br />* API GL-1<br />* API GL-4<br />* API GL-5 <br />Most outboard manufacturers recommend API GL5 gear oils for their lower units. API GL-5 gear lubricants are for both mechanical shift units calling for Type B gear oil and electrical shift mechanisms calling for Type C gear oil. (only the viscosity value will be different for each application) <br /><br />Transmission fluid needs to have excellent oxidative stability and anti-foaming characteristics, and must be able to perform over a wide range of temperatures. Dexron(r) III/Mercon(r) formulations meet the requirements of Type A, Dexron(r), Dexron(r) II, Dexron(r) II-E and Mercon(r) ATFs. Current Dexron(r) III/Mercon(r) formulations are also generally suitable as Allison C2, C3 or C4 type fluids. <br /><br />On the other hand,Type F ATF has a different frictional property than Dexron(r) III/Mercon(r). (Note: some transmissions use regular motor oil) <br /><br />Always refer to the manual for exact specifications but as you can see, standards exist to create a uniform atmosphere for compatibility in lubricants. This should make it easier to choose one brand over another. Also note that every "generic brand" lubricant has to comply with the same standards as the "brand name" lubricant to carry a specific classification. (and there are only a hand-full or so of lubricant manufacturers as compared to the numerous "brand names" they manufacture.) <br /><br />There is a case for "product specific" lubricants that are distributed by engine manufactures for their product. These engine manufacturers can specify changes or additions to a specific type of oil that would carry that engine manufacturers "private label". Ask your supplier or rep some cold hard questions. <br />(See an experiment run by Mercury a few years back.)<br /><br />The bottom line is that each oil has to pass the test for it's category, but the question is: "How well, did they pass?" and "What did they put into the oil, so it would pass? " There in lies the difference.....
 

Pursuit2150

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
553
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

Yesterday, I went to the NMMA TC-W3 Oil certification site and found there are 41 "Certified" oils they tested for 2002. <br />Bottom line "use any of them"
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
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Mar 25, 2001
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8,217
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

NMMA is a must on the label for me. Personally,I've had carbon build-up problem with some oils like Lubrimatic's base brand. It worked fine but, lots of ash,which means lots of carbon..And I idle more than most boaters (due to sea cows).<br />I have found that for the money, NOTHING beats Wally world's Supertech, or Tech2000 oil (they changed it,but I can't remember from which-to-what.<br />Good cheap stuff tho.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: TWO STROKE OIL

LOL yea, that's the game! My kids used to be ate-up with it. We used to go to Chucky Cheese,and they would feed that table quarters until they spent thier allowance for the next month.<br /> :D
 
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