Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Jim, glad things are coming along for you. What thickness plywood did you go with for your transom? Also, I'm assuming you wrapped your transom in CSM and put two layers on after installing. One more, how thick was your hull after all the grinding?

My hull was about 1/4" thick after grinding off the old peanut butter. I used two sheets of 3/4" plywood glued with Titebond III for the core. I followed Woodonglass's recommendations almost entirely; I covered the entire transom shield in CSM before installing it, I tabbed it in with CSM (and added a layer of CSM around the perimeter of the keyhole so the lower part, where I tabbed, wasn't built up more than the upper area around the keyhole), and then covered with two layers of 1708. It all came out to just about 2" (I believe 2" to 2 1/4" is what Mercruiser specs.)

I thought about making the transom from a sheet of 3/4" and two of half-inch plywood, and I'm glad I didn't. It would have taken me pretty close to the outer range of thickness that is specced. I figured if I miscalucluated I'd be better off with a thin transom that I could build up with layers of 1708 than a transom that was too thick...

I was really careful about the clamping and maintaining a uniform thickness of the PB. I also mixed the PB to cure slowly so I had time to fiddle around with it.

Let me know if you have any other Qs. I understand that this is a step you don't want to mess up!

Jim

 

[christoner2002]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Enjoying this thread. I have a 1997 Larson 206 SEI, and will be using this as a model if I end up having to do mine. Looks like you are doing a Nice job. North Central Illinois here.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Enjoying this thread. I have a 1997 Larson 206 SEI, and will be using this as a model if I end up having to do mine. Looks like you are doing a Nice job. North Central Illinois here.

Sounds like you aren't far at all from me. Hope you enjoy the thread. I'm hoping to splash by early May.

Jim

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Well, I had another interesting discovery tonight. I had to pull the garboard drain receptacle to replace it. (I spilled some resin in the bilge. I cleaned it up, and I thought I got to it before it ran out the drain, but I was wrong. The threads on the bottom of the garboard drain were clogged with resin. Wish I would have thought to check it BEFORE it cured....)

Anyway, I unscrewed the flange around the garboard drain and popped it out. I was surprised to see it wasn't bedded in some sort of sealant! Nothing! It was held in by the three screws and it's seal was created by the pressure of the rim of the flange against the gelcoat.

Is this common? I can't believe it wouldn't be bedded in 5200 or something similar...

Jim

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I'm putting down my last layer of CSM on the deck, and next is the final layer of 6 oz. cloth. I am planning to use some sort of rolled on deck covering (gel coat or Durabak, I can't decide...) so I expect I'll need to do some fairing and sanding.

Does it make any sense to do some fairing BEFORE I apply the last layer (the 6 oz. cloth)? I am thinking there will be some print-through of the weave from the cloth when I gelcoat/Durabak it, and I'm wondering if it would look better if I tried to get the deck faired before I applied that last layer (of 6 oz. cloth). Does that make any sense, or would it be a bad idea?

I'm planning to fair by using US Composites' fairing compound in poly resin. (If there are deep areas to level, US Composites recommended filling them 75% with PB made with resin and Cabosil, and then using the fairing compound and resin to fill the remainder.)

What do think? Fair first, or lay the final layer first?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

If you have to fair after the 6oz cloth, I don't think I'd want to do it twice.

If you think that you need to do it twice, you might try to build up a low w/ an additional layer of CSM or a small patch of 6oz.

The garboard drain may not have had a bedding of any kind, or maybe it should have, but doesn't.......

In the NEW & IMPROVED Larson: The JASinILL2006 version, it probably should be bedded & have some 4200/5200 applied to the screws too...... Why do all this work & not bed the drain & it's screws, ya know what I mean? :watermelon:

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I caught this over in max's thread:

I think I found 5200 at one of the big home improvement places... Home Depot, Lowes or something similar. I even think WalMart will do a free ship-to-store if you order it online. I think I paid $16 or so for a 3 oz. tube. It performs such a critical role that it seems worth the cost. It's the one item just about everyone seems to trust for below the waterline sealing...

Ouch, I just ordered 5200 from the big box L-word & it was $11-12/tube after tax, free shipping directly to me (that was a sale or something when ordered online, normally shipping would be added) and these are 12.8oz tubes...Carp, it's $9.68/tube now....

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I've never considered buying the big tubes because I figured it would go bad before I used most of it. But dang, that is cheap! I better start checking more carefully before I buy...

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I've never considered buying the big tubes because I figured it would go bad before I used most of it. But dang, that is cheap! I better start checking more carefully before I buy...

Just a smidge in the morning coffee & you'll use it up before you know it....

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

If you have to fair after the 6oz cloth, I don't think I'd want to do it twice.

If you think that you need to do it twice, you might try to build up a low w/ an additional layer of CSM or a small patch of 6oz.

The garboard drain may not have had a bedding of any kind, or maybe it should have, but doesn't.......

In the NEW & IMPROVED Larson: The JASinILL2006 version, it probably should be bedded & have some 4200/5200 applied to the screws too...... Why do all this work & not bed the drain & it's screws, ya know what I mean? :watermelon:

You got that right... this boat will be 100 lb. heavier by the time I'm done with it, and half of that will be 5200! :laugh:

I finished the second layer of CSM on the deck last night, so it's time to prep for the final layer, the 6 oz. cloth. My CSM is bumpier than I would like, so I'm going to have some prep before I can lay down the cloth.

I covered the ski locker lid with some of the 6 oz. last night, and it was interesting. The cloth is so much lighter than the other stuff I've used so far (1708 biax and CSM). It seemed to get out of shape easier and to wrinkle easier than the heavier stuff I've used. I'm not sure how that will play out when applying large pieces of it to the deck. I'm wondering if there are any tricks to laying down lighter cloth? I like how it looks and feels, though. Really nice.

Jim

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

With the 6 oz. do smaller sections, pour the resin in the middle and always work to the edges. Don't use too much resin. You can always add more. It does NOT take much to wet out 6 oz. Use Light strokes with the brush or roller. Bubble roller works well. Make sure the CSM is sanded smooth

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

With the 6 oz. do smaller sections, pour the resin in the middle and always work to the edges. Don't use too much resin. You can always add more. It does NOT take much to wet out 6 oz. Use Light strokes with the brush or roller. Bubble roller works well. Make sure the CSM is sanded smooth

Gotcha. I'll be laying this over the sanded CSM; do I still put down resin and let it tack out before applying the cloth, or should I put the cloth down before the resin has started to tack up?

Thanks,
Jim

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I always roll on a Light coat of resin first and then Immediately lay the cloth using a bubble roller.to smooth it out and let the resin come up from the bottom side. I then add more resin as needed but ONLY what's needed.

 

[HalfFish5087]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Well, I had another interesting discovery tonight. I had to pull the garboard drain receptacle to replace it. (I spilled some resin in the bilge. I cleaned it up, and I thought I got to it before it ran out the drain, but I was wrong. The threads on the bottom of the garboard drain were clogged with resin. Wish I would have thought to check it BEFORE it cured....)

Anyway, I unscrewed the flange around the garboard drain and popped it out. I was surprised to see it wasn't bedded in some sort of sealant! Nothing! It was held in by the three screws and it's seal was created by the pressure of the rim of the flange against the gelcoat.

Is this common? I can't believe it wouldn't be bedded in 5200 or something similar...

Jim

Jim,
Mine was not in any sealant either.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I always roll on a Light coat of resin first and then Immediately lay the cloth using a bubble roller.to smooth it out and let the resin come up from the bottom side. I then add more resin as needed but ONLY what's needed.

OK, I'll give a shot. Thanks!

Jim

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Jim,
Mine was not in any sealant either.

Looking at it, it's hard to believe it was not leaking, too. The back side of the garboard drain is not very flat...

I'm going to slather in the 5200 when I put my new one in.

Jim

 

[HalfFish5087]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I covered the ski locker lid with some of the 6 oz. last night, and it was interesting. The cloth is so much lighter than the other stuff I've used so far (1708 biax and CSM). It seemed to get out of shape easier and to wrinkle easier than the heavier stuff I've used. I'm not sure how that will play out when applying large pieces of it to the deck. I'm wondering if there are any tricks to laying down lighter cloth? I like how it looks and feels, though. Really nice.

Jim

Hey, could you post a pic of the ski locker lid? I was looking at the carpet on mine last night and thinking of doing the same thing. Also, why did you decide to go with 6oz cloth on the decking? How does the cloth differ from the CSM?

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

I'll post a pic when I'm home. Right now the top of the lid is glassed but I haven't trimmed the extra off or painted it or put the aluminum trim back on. I like how the 6 oz. cloth looks. On the super-flat surface of the locker lid, it really looks nice. I'm a bit worried that if I don't get the CSM on the rest of my deck sanded nice and smooth, it might look a bit shabby...

I went with the 6 oz. largely following the recommendations of oops in his sticky (at the top of this forum) on how to foam and fiberglass a deck. In it, he recommends getting at least 8 oz. of fiberglass on the deck. I got some and did a test panel where I put down several layers of fiberglass. One test panel had only layers of CSM, another had two layers of CSM, topped with 6 oz. cloth, and one had two layers of CSM with the cloth in between. The section with 6 oz. cloth on top looked the best.

The 6 oz. gives a very nice uniform look with a slightly textured feel. I think it has a much more finished look than CSM, which looks a little irregular and randomly bumpy to me. Whereas CSM just has fibers randomly distributed, the 6 oz. is a fairly fine weave of glass fibers running at right angles to one another.

Jim

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Yep, that's why the Cedar Strip canoe builder use 6 oz on their canoe builds. It lays down smooth and almost totally disappears.

 

[JASinIL2006]

Re: Transom problems with Larson 186 SEI I/O Bowrider

Got the seat bases glued in with thickened resin last night. Today I puttied around them with more thickened resin and got a layer of 1708 on them. I plan to put on at least one more layer of 1708 on them tomorrow. Then it's 6 oz. for the whole deck and I should be done with the glassing.

I better make up my mind about the deck covering...

Jim