The stRingers are out!

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Ohio,

I wouldn't use pressure treated plywood. I have heard many arguments about fiberglass resin not sticking well to them and the laminations come apart soon after applying it.

Regular plywood works best, and if it is covered in resin and glass it will last years...

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stRingers are out!

OK here's where we satnd as of tonight. The interior of the transom is 100% clean. The hull where the new trnasom will bond is 98% cleaned to bare glass. There's still some spots around the laps and where the FG transom meets the hull. I hope to have everything cleaned up by tommorrow night.

Now I have a question. There are a few spots where the transom attaches to the hull where the FG is very thin. There are a few spots where there are holes in the joint where the transom and hull come together. Nothing major but there are 3-4 holes the size of a pencil eraser in that joint. I was thinking would it hurt to lay a 6" wide strip of glass in that joint to help stiffen it up before the new transom goes in? If I were to do that would I have to rough it back up again before the new transom goes in? This patch would be done with resin/glass. The new transom will be covered in resin/glass then epoxied to the existin FG transom. Will I need to rough the edges of the new transom to bare the glass before I epoxy it in place. My understanding of epoxy is, that you don't have to do any of that prep work. I thought that I can use the epoxy right on the cured resin with out roughing it first.

As for the keel yes there is a wooden keel on the outside of the hull. There is no FG over the keel as it is just fastened to the hull. It doesn't appear rotted anywhere that I have found. Once the stringers and transom are in I plan on rolling over the hull so I can repair a rough spot on the garbord (sp) before everything else goes into the hull (that would make the roll over easier as there would be alot less weight).

I have also learned in my hours of grinding the fiberglass. I have been using a cupped wire wheel for the last 2 nights. Today I bought some 60grit grinding wheels for my angle grinder at Harbor Freight. MAN WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! Talk about alot quicker. You have to use it a little more gingerly but it is far superior to the wire wheel.

Thanks again all for all of the help!!

Lowell

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Juppers, 80 grit is the bomb on that job. If I understand you right in the above post; clean and epoxy all the holes. That is the outer skin. Lay some tape on the outside, fill, and you'll not have to do any grinding on the outside. You can then roll some tickened epoxy over the whole transome outside and lay a one piece of plastic wrap over it and gently squeegy the bubbles out. She'll be as smooth as a new-born's butt. Your transom strenght will come from your build-up on the inside and the stringer tabbing.

 

[Mark42]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Ohio,

I wouldn't use pressure treated plywood. I have heard many arguments about fiberglass resin not sticking well to them and the laminations come apart soon after applying it.

Regular plywood works best, and if it is covered in resin and glass it will last years...

Saskatoon, the only problems I have read about with pressure treated wood is applying resin to wet wood. Tests that other folks on this site pointed out show that resin and glass stick to p/t wood just as well as regular ply. (wish the search engine worked better, I would try to find some of those posts)

Using regular ply will save money. But over they years when fracturs develop and water starts to leak in, the p/t will not rot and will give many more years of use.

I also believe that regular ply will work just fine when glassed in properly.

Either way, its the quality of the workmanship that will make the real difference and stand the test of time.

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Nova,

Should I apply a layer of tape to the interior joint of the transom? If I apply the tape to the exterior then I'll have to grind the exterior of the hull and in order to do that properly I'd have to remove the spray rails. Would tape on the interior accomplish the same thing?

They were all out of 80 grit pads at Harbor freight. The 60s work great, you let the grider come up to speed then touch the hull with the pad and let the hull slow the pad then bring it up to speed again. Wash rinse repeat! LOL

Thanks,
Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Ohio,

Is the wood keel covered in epoxy? How is it sealed to the boat? I don't know if I would trust putting screws through the hull into exposed wood. There has to be a better way to make sure that the hull is sealed and in no way would leak.

The way the boat is set up right now, I can see leaking to be a problem in a very short time. I wonder if you can cover the entire keel in epoxy, and then cover in plastic wrap (like Nova II 260 said with the transom), then you would have a pretty solid protection from leaking...

Another way would be to rough up the sides of the bottom of the boat next to the keel with your new 60 grit sanding discs, and then actually glass in the keel to prevent any leaks from occuring. You would have to put in a couple of layers because when you beach the boat, you will wear it out pretty quicky.

That seem like a pretty tricky area to deal with..maybe some other people will be able to help you more...but I would definately seal somehow that keel, and if at all possible...do NOT screw through the hull. It spells trouble...It is possible to build an entire boat without using one screw...there are guys on here who have redone there whole flooring and transom without using one screw (they have even installed seat posts as well). Try to fix that whole keel part without using screws...

Good Luck!

Patrick

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Ohio,

You can definately use a 6" piece of fiberglass to reinforce that transom joint. I am not sure about epoxying to it. Some resins have wax in them that float to the top and allow the resin to cure. When re-glassing over that kind of resin, you have to rough up the surface (removing the wax) to get new resin to stick to it. Just to be safe, I would go over the newly cured strip with a little sandpaper (or your cupped wheel) and then epoxy the transom to it. That way you are sure to get a great seal between the taped joint and the transom.

I agree with Nova on the whole epoxying the transom and then plastic over top to smooth it out and then it will look like new...very smart!

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks guys! I'll keep you posted. Maybe I'll roll the boat over before I install the center stringer over the keel. Let me work through this new info in my mind then I'll let you know.


Thanks
Lowell

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Lowell, what I meant with the tape was to just make a flush back stop, on the outside. You remove the polyxxx sheet once the epoxy sets up. Clean tape area with Lac thinnner and apply, once the epoxy sets up remove the tape. Or you can use a piece seran wrap or sandwich bag and then hold it in place with duct tape. Epoxy will not stick to polyxxxx stuff. You need to mix some epoxy with thickner(i.e. microballoons) to a peanut butter consistancy for the holes.
Inside the transom skin, you should filet and tab in and then build your transom up from there.
Take a look, here good article.
On materials and costs. Don't build a 100 year boat, you won't have it that long. As old as the boat is now...It lived well and it found a buyer. Just make it safe and reliable while you own it.

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: The stRingers are out!

If you do your sanding wet you'll get more use out of your discs and and a lot less dust. (wash out your old disks) Yes, it makes a mess but you'll have it localized and no FB dust on everything you own.

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Hey Nova,

That is an amazing site into building and repairing your boat. I added it to my bookmarks...very good stuff.

Patrick

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks for the link nova! That makes sence. I have read every book I can get my hands on about "stitch and glue" boat buiilding. The approaches you guys are giveing are very much like that. Now I see what you mean by "tape" up the outside? What do you mean by polyxxxx. Plastic wrap?

Thanks a ton
Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Epoxy does not stick to any type of plastic! Sandwich bags, saran wrap, any clear wrap product will work.

Patrick

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Here are a few more pics of the boat. The first two are of the damage to the keel. Nothing major but still a leaker. You can also kind of make out that there is no FG over the wooden skeg(?) on the keel. The last is a shot of my 4HP Evinrude for Sas..

I've gotten more of the interior perpped but I don't want to untarp the boat as there's a chance of rain and as soon as I get the tarp off it'll come a downpoor! LOL I'll probably go out tonight and grind somemore as the wind is really kicking and will help to blow all the dust out. I'll take more pics before I recover the boat.

I think I have come to a decision on the foam also. I think I'll foam under the casting deck and fill each of the bench seats with about 4-6" of foam. This foam would have a small sheet of 1/4" ply laid overtop of it to help protect the foam. I'll probably use some of the blue construction foam under my new floor too. If I'm meerly "displacing" water then the bouancy of the blue foam really doesn't matter, right? How do I calculate the volume of can foam? I guess the easiest way would be for this much mix it yeilds this much volume?

Thanks again!
Lowell

 

[Saskatoon2005]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Ohio,

About that keel...Here is what I would do...

1) Turn boat over.
2) Grind all blue paint off of the keel and also 3 inches (at least) of bottom of boat next to keel.
3) Now you need to make sure the seal between the keel and the fiberglass hull is structually sound.
4) Patch any non-structually sound holes or splits with either marine-tex filler, or epoxy resin. Make sure that if anything is questionable, that you throw some resin or filler at it.
5) I would then put a couple of layers of glass over that keel. That will prevent any more water leaking into the boat ever again.
6) Then paint it if you choose...

What kind of paint is on that old boat anyways? You may find it easier to strip the whole boat and then repaint it. The nice thing about gel coat, is that it actually seals the fiberglass laminations and prevents delamination of the hull. A good polyurethane paint can also give years to an old boat.

If you do not seal up that keel area perfectly, then all the work you are going to do on the inside will be done in vain!

 

[Nova II 260]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Lowell, Patrick said it. With Polyxxxx, I meant just about any flexible vynil, garbage/sandwich/freezer bags, scotch tape, etc.
If they are clear at least you can see bubbles better etc.
In the state your boat is in now, I'd let the rain collect and wash the dust/dirt out. What's it gonna hurt? just water.
To answer your other question; Use Epoxy everywhere!

 

[Mark42]

Re: The stRingers are out!

OK. enough of this yackity yack. I want to see some PICTURES of you latest work.

Just for reference, and to be followed in this order:

1) boat building/repair take precedent over any other home project.

2) boat building/repair take precedent over any other home project.

And - - -

3) boat building/repair take precedent over any other home project.

If you follow these 3 simple rules, everything will work out just fine.

 

[OhioLowell]

Re: The stRingers are out!

Thanks guys! I was thinking the same thing about the keel. DO you think it would hurt to run a couple of screws through the center stringer into the keel if the keel's going to be fiberglassed in completely? Yeah the front area of the keel in the pictures is kind of rough. I was thinking about injecting some exopy into the areas where there are gaps in that area before I glass it in. I was looking at a catalog the other day and they had kevlar tape in 6,8,10,12" widths. I was thinking I could put a layer or two of this over the glass on the keel and make it just about abrasion resistant. Good idea, bad idea?

Here are some more pictures. The first shot is of the cleaned transom and inner hull where the new transom will bond. I still have a few small areas to scrape out yet on the hull as you can see in the picture. They're all in areas around the laps! The FG transom sure looks like swiss cheese with that sunlite shining through it!

THis shot is of the grinding in progress on the stringers. As you can see the 2 outside stringers are just about completely ground out and the center stringer still has a ways to go. The area up near the bow on the center stringer should be a freakin pain in the neck!! Also as you can see in the pic I have cut out one rib where it crosses the stringer (area circled in red). I was thinking about cutting all of the ribs where they cross the stringers in a similar fashion (areas indicated in green). DO you think this is too much? If I don't cut them this way then there really isn't any way to clean under the ribs. I've gotten in as well as possiable and there is still an area about 1" wide under each rib that isn't very clean. I was thinking if I cut the ribs in this fashion and re-epoxied the ones that are loose then there wouldn't really be any harm done. I would say that 2/3 of them need refastened anyway. Good idea, bad idea?

Nova, I noticed that you're in SW Ohio too. Can I ask where? I'm about 45 min out of Cincinnati.

Thanks,
Lowell

 

[Mark42]

Re: The stRingers are out!

That looks great.

I stand by my last post about building your transom. Just fill the darn holes with epoxy.

Nice work on the stingers. At this point, just cut the darn ribs and lay in the new stringers as outlined previous.

Based on what I see for quality of workmanship, your boat will out last your kids.

Mark

 

[Mark42]

Re: The stRingers are out!

And don't forget to clamp the old original transom to the new as the glass hardens. Use screws, or clamps. If you use screws, fill holes with epoxy after the screws are removed.

Me