Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

[maj75]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Originally posted by BLACKSHEEP1:<br /> maj75-<br />I am a Suzuki dealer in New York and heard of the problems you are having with your Suzuki engines. I have sold over 30 Suzuki V-6 Fourstrokes so far, and havent had any troubles....so obviously when I came across your post,I of course am concerned. So if you could answer some questions, so I can take any precautions if neccessary.<br />1.What kind of boat do you have? ( already answered)<br />2.what type of electronics are you running on your boat?<br /><br /> Garmin 2010 (installed be dealer at same time as engines)& VHF <br /><br />3.Is your bottom painted, and if so what type of bottom paint are you using?<br /><br /> The botton is painted, I believe its Trinidad, the lower units were NOT painted. <br /><br />4.Is there a reason why you would leave the motors in the down position when you are not using the boat, as opposed to trimming the out of the water?<br /><br /> I DO trim the engines up as far as I can, the tips of the gearcases remain in the water when the motors are fully in the up position. <br /> Is your dock slip not big enough or do Out of all the manufactureres, Suzuki engines tilts the highest..and should be completely out of the water.Is your engine mounted on the transom or on a brackett?<br /><br /> Mounted on the Transom. No metal reinforcing plate on transom <br /> <br />If on a brackett, is it aluminum or stainless?<br /><br />5.It seems that the boat is sitting heavy is the back, and thats why the skeg may be sitting lower in the water......is there a reason that you have not added some additonal weight to the front of the boat to compensate for the weight of the motors?<br /><br /> The old engines had 2-3" more in the water, while the boat does sit lower in the back due to the additional weight of the engines, it never dawned on me to add weight to the bow of my boat. However, I tried standing on the bow pulpit with my son (400+lbs ) and the engine is still in the water (even with the port lower unit removed) <br /><br />8. Is your local dealer working with you to help resolve your issues & to help explain what may have caused this? This seems like a very one sided story and I feel that there has to be more details to this matter(although I could be wrong)<br /><br /> The installing dealer has gotten me nothing from Suzuki. The repairing dealer has gotten me nothing from Suzuki. The repairing dealer has said he will testify that the corrosion was due to the engines not being bonded to the main zincs (as they should be) and that he knows of no reason why Suzuki should deny the warranty claim. I have spoken to Suzuki Customer Service and I got their "final word" that they will not cover this under warranty because it is "corrosion." <br /><br />9. Has a Suzuki Tech Rep(factory personel) come out to take a look at this. If not, why????<br /><br /> According to the repairing dealer, they only wanted digital photos e-mailed to them. <br />10. Have you hit bottom with your engine because this could cause the paint to chip and would break the bond.<br /><br /> No <br /><br />11.Ground to motor(gearcase) with bolt would complete a ground. Also, the zinc can not work if it is not in the water.<br /><br /> There is NO continuity between motor and bracket/main zinc. The main zinc is in the water. Obviously the little zinc on the lower unit is out of the water. No-one leaves their motors down, here. The Suzuki dealer says he would never tell a customer to leave the engine trimmed down. I will have to run a SS wire from the motor to the bracket/main zinc to prevent the problem from occurring. <br /><br />12. Are you aware that you can add a Merc ball zinc on the bolt....this would give you extra protection<br /><br /> Which bolt? If the bolt is on the bracket,See above, No continuity between motor and engine bracket. If not, I don't know of a bolt that I could add a zinc to that would be on the lower unit AND submerged when the engines are tilted up. <br /><br />13.All Suzuki wires are bonded, but unfortunately saltwater gets everywhere.<br /><br /> My dealer can't find bonding wires (bonding motor to main zinc)on his schematic. If they are there, he has never seen them. They are visible to cursory inspection on a Yamaha, jumping from bracket to motor. <br /><br />14.There are 6 zincs in the powerhead, have you checked those to see what type of condition they are in?<br /><br /> Like new. <br /><br />I am just trying to find out all of the particulars on this story. To me, it seems like there is some pertinent missing information. We would like to see some pictures and offer our help with you in this matter............If you would like please call us (631)226-9739 and identify yourself as the Iboats guy and I will let you speak the the head mechanic here, or you may email us at jensenmarine@aol.com.Our head mechanic has been working on Suzuki Engines for almost 30 years.....Not once, has he heard of any type of siuation like this.

Will do

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Bump<br /><br />Any news?

 

[maj75]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Spoke to the Jensen Marine dealer who responded. He confirmed that the 225 four strokes do not have any "visible" bonding method between the engine and the motor bracket. I have not heard from him since, despite sending my phone number, engine serial numbers, etc.<br /><br />Suzuki has not changed their mind. My attorney is drafting a letter to Suzuki giving them a deadline to do any inspection desired, prior to my repairing the boat. At the expiration of that time limit, I will be filing a lawsuit against Suzuki for the original cost of the engines plus the full costs related to the repairs.

 

[swist]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Just a quick aside here, many boat/transom/engine/bracket configurations only marginally keep the lower unit completely out of the water - usually there is not more clearance because that level of tilt would cause the cowling to crash into whatever the rearmost part of the boat is.<br /><br />My boat (Yamaha on a bracket) will fully come out of the water by about an inch if the fuel tank is on the low side and the boat is unloaded. Otherwise it's about an inch in the water. When I first got the boat I worried about this for corrosion reasons (galvanic or otherwise), but in the 12 years I've had it, it's never been a problem. And I agree with maj75 that inspection of a few marinas (I did) will show lots of outboards in a similar situation (just barely in or out). It can't be that big a deal.

 

[HeadHunt]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Any developments??<br />HeadHunt

 

[Johnshan1]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Hey I just came back from alaska 2 hours ago, saw a few Suzuki 4 strokes (200 hp) tilted up, with the lower unit still partially in the salt water. This was in Sitka and the charter boat we used runs Suzuki as well (200 hp's) and I doubt theirs are any different.<br /><br />Just a little FYI.

 

[maj75]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

My attorney wrote to Suzuki and Travis Boating Center Key Largo (the selling/installing dealer) a few weeks ago, giving them until June 15, 2005 to repair the engines or do whatever inspections they wanted. They never responded. I have ordered the parts to repair, and will hopefull start next week. I have to get the boat towed from its slip to the lift basin, and have it hauled out and put on a rack. The lower units will be replaced, and a bonding system created, so this will not happen again. Should cost me $12,000 for everything. I will include these expenses in the lawsuit being filed next week.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

What did you plan to use the boat for?

 

[maj75]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Originally posted by JRJ:<br /> What did you plan to use the boat for?

Boating with my friends and family, occassional fishing?<br /><br />What do you plan to do with your boat?

 

[JRJ]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

I use mine as a piggy bank. Its great because I can never get the money back out of it to go waste somewhere

 

[ianyoung77]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

I write with caution as I usually go to work to get dumped on!<br /><br />The argument regarding not having a return path contradicts the statements regarding bonding. If there is no return path it would not matter whether the bottom is bonded or not. I would guess that the bottom was originally bonded and the currents that have enhanced the corrosion have also corroded the bond.

 

[tommays]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

would any motor maker cover this ? <br /><br />i would think admitting anything was worng with there motor would open a big can of worms for them with anybody who had a problem like this<br /><br /><br />tommays

 

[31900]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

I have great sympathy for maj75 and I wish him well in finding a satisfactory solution to this saga. It seems to me that it is most important to remember that it is preferable to leave your motor completely out of the water when tied up. If the motor will not trim far enough up to clear the water, the set-up is probably wrong and the only option you have is to put enough of it in the water so that your anodes are wet and so do their job. Good Luck Mate!

 

[swist]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

it is preferable to leave your motor completely out of the water when tied up. If the motor will not trim far enough up to clear the water, the set-up is probably wrong

Not always true. Raising the engine moves the powerhead quite a bit forward and the design of the transom or other obstructions can make it impossible to get the lower unit totally out of the water. Although this seems to be true mainly on older boats.

 

[31900]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

swist you are right in that on some boats it is not possible to raise the motor sufficiently for the lower unit to clear. In that case, it is better to leave sufficient motor in the water so that the anodes are submerged and can do their job.

 

[maj75]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

I have now filed a lawsuit against Suzuki and Travis Boating, in the Florida Keys. The attorney for Travis has indicated that his position is that Suzuki should have repaired the engines under warranty, and he will be demanding that Suzuki defend Travis in this lawsuit. Failing that, Travis will file a cross-claim against Suzuki seeking to recover their attorneys fees in defending the lawsuit.<br /><br />As for the argument that the lower units of the engines should be left in the water, its is WRONG according to the Yamaha/Suzuki dealer doing the repairs. The growth on the SS props and in the water pumps alone would be too much.<br /><br />After I replaced the lower units, I had the Marine Electricians retest the engines for bonding. There was still no continuity between the motors and the main bracket/zinc. The electrician installed stainless bonding wires from the motor to the bracket and the bracket to the main zinc. Now there is continuity between the motors and the zincs. This should prevent the lower units from disintegrating in the future.<br /><br />The old zincs were just replaced at the annual service interval, they had no appreciable corrosion/wear.

 

[Nos4r2]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

That sounds like it's gonna go well there if their attorney is holding Suzuki liable too. <br /><br />Hate to be a rubbernecker but I find this fascinating. Good luck Maj75.More power to your elbow!

 

[garyN]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

OK, now where are the old lower units? One issue that always comes up is the MFG want them - but you need to keep them.<br /><br />Just for kicks I would suggest you find the nearest local university with a metalurgical(sp?) progarm.<br /><br />I would bet that the alloy these units are made from has a funky composition. Remember the web site says it is an extra hard coating - or something like that.<br /><br />My guess is some subcontractor shortchanged Suzuki. You don't have to worry because you can sue the MFG. for anythinhg the sub did.<br /><br />The federal warranaty laws are quite broad in this regard. Also, remember to have your attorney send out "a lot" of paper discovery for stuff like the records of the specificatin they send for the alloy, the receipts for it, what the MFG paid etc. along with any and all recods of testing that was done and previous other complaints.<br /><br />You win these cases by simply putting the pressure on- you will know all when you find out who the MFG hires - expect them to put in about 100+ hours of biling before they suggest a settlement.<br /><br />Gary

 

[tommays]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

i had to sue Shimano for a defective xtr v-brakeing system<br /><br />japanese companys can push out more useless papers than you afford to pay a lawyer to read which is what happened in my case and they have a LOT to lose once they settel a case like this<br /><br /><br />i hope it goes easery for you then it did for me<br /><br /><br />tommay

 

[clanton]

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

The Johnson manual for the V6s shows two bonding wires, looks like one goes to mounting brackets, not real clear, look at page 308 and 309. Service manual does not say tilt engine out of water for storage, may be in operator manual or PDI sheet, you should have manual and dealer should have PDI.