Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

maj75 · Apr 21, 2005

I bought 2 DF-225's at the '04 Miami Beach boat show. The engines were installed in April, 2004. The boat was dry stored until November, 2004. In December, 2004 the boat was put into a wet slip. As installed the tips of the lower units touch the water when trimmed-up. The boat has 7 hours since December, 2004. The port engine froze two weeks ago, and it was determined the the lower unit had a corrosion hole where the lower unit tip touched the water. Salt water had contaminated the lower unit gear lube, causing the seizure. There is a large area of corrosion on the starboard lower unit in the same place. SUZUKI WON'T FIX UNDER WARRANTY. I had the engines examined by a marine electrician. He found that the engine is not bonded to the zincs on the motor bracket, and there is NO corrosion protection for the lower unit when it is just touching the water! When the engine is fully lowered into the water, it has only half the bonding protection it should, again, because it is not bonded to the motor bracket with the main zinc and has only the small zinc on the lower unit itself. The electrician ruled-out the dock or other boats as the cause, since my boat was never connected to the dock by anything other than docklines. If your boat is dry stored (trailer or marina), the problem could take years to manifest. If your engines do not touch the water, the problem could take years to mainfest. MY LOWER UNITS WERE DESTROYED IN LESS THAN 5 MONTHS!!! The repairing dealer (who sells Yamaha's as well) showed me the stainless bonding cables that Yamaha uses to bond all parts of the engine to the main zincs on the motor brackets. Apparently, Suzuki does not do this. Even if I were to spend $9000 to replace the 1 year old lower units, they would be destroyed in less than 6 months, because the engine is still not properly bonded. ANYONE WITH NEW SUZUKI 4-STROKES SHOULD IMMEDIATELY INSPECT THEIR LOWER UNITS. MY LOWER UNITS DISINTEGRATED AROUND THE BOTTOM DRAIN PLUG FOR THE GEAR CASE. IF YOU LEAVE YOUR SUZUKI IN THE WATER WITH THE ENGINES TRIMMED-UP BUT TOUCHING THE WATER, IT MAY BE TOO LATE ALREADY. EVERYTIME YOUR LOWER UNIT IS IN THE WATER, IT IS CORRODING AT AN UNACCEPTABLE RATE. I am investigating a class action against Suzuki with the firm that did the Optimax class action against Mercury Marine.

JRJ · Apr 21, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

interesting

welcome to iboats and sorry you didn't get to use your boat more

rodbolt · Apr 21, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

bummer did your electrician do a continuity test between the bracket and the lower? I believe the bonding wire is inside the midesction and bods the lower with the mounting bolts. what kind of bottom paint did you use? what kind of anti-fouling paint was used to protect the drives ? did your electrician do a galvanic test with a reference electrode while it was in the slip? a test with the motors up as well as down? all are questions you will be asked anyway

seahorse5 · Apr 21, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

What Rodbolt is getting at is what type of anti-fouling paint was used on the gearcases. If it was copper based, the gearcase corrosion was the fault of the person who chose the paint. If it was tin based, then other problems were the culprit. Improper dock wiring or boat's 120 volt system could have leaked current and caused the corrosion. Were those items checked by an ABYC certified electrician? I have also seen automotive battery chargers used in boats and the stray currents have 'eaten' parts of the outboard that touched the water. Let us know about the outcome of the investigations and possible lawsuits?

maj75 · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

The boat was never hooked-up to shore power, so the 120 volt system can't be at fault. Neither can a problem with an adjacent boat or dock. (The boat does not have a generator or inverter on board.) No anti-fouling paint on gearcase. Only the tip was in the water and this would clean off with the boat running. No battery charger, never had to touch the 1 yr old batteries. No continuity between bracket and lower, either with engine up or down. The galvanic tests were done in the slip with a reference electrode.

rodbolt · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

you may have a case. will be interesting . keep us posted. but be aware that by trimming it out of the water,almost, you took the sacrificial anode out of the system. and stray dock currents or the boat next to you can eat up your unprotected metals without your boat actually being hooked to shore power. so by trimming the engine almost out of the water and defeating the anodic protection you may not have a case. will be interesting though.

maj75 · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Originally posted by rodbolt: you may have a case. will be interesting . keep us posted. but be aware that by trimming it out of the water,almost, you took the sacrificial anode out of the system. and stray dock currents or the boat next to you can eat up your unprotected metals without your boat actually being hooked to shore power. NOT TRUE. BOAT MUST HAVE AN ELECTRICAL PATH TO THE DOCK TO CREATE PROBLEM WITH EITHER DOCK OR ANOTHER BOAT, MINE HAD NONE. so by trimming the engine almost out of the water and defeating the anodic protection you may not have a case. THAT'S WHY THE LOWER UNIT HAS TO BE BONDED TO THE ZINC ON THE MOTOR BRACKET. EVEN WITH THE ENGINE DOWN, THE LOWER UNIT HAS LESS THAN HALF OF THE ZINC BONDING NEEDED TO PROTECT IT. IF YOU CAN'T TRIM UP THE ENGINE WITHOUT IT DISINTEGRATING, SHOULDN'T SUZUKI WARN YOU? will be interesting though.

jim dozier · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

You do not need to be connected by a wire to the dock or a nearby boat for you to experience galvanic corrosion, particulary in salt water. Electric potentials are generated through the water and can extend from boat to boat or from dock to boat through the water. Miami salt water is an excellent conductor of electricity. If you don't believe me put your foot in a plastic bucket of it an put one of your battery terminals in one hand and the other in the water and see what happens. I wish you luck with this, but while you pursuing this you may want to investigate your marina, your own boats wiring system, and neighboring boats as part of your problem.

maj75 · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

I'm sorry to correct you, but you need a two way path, like the example you gave. Without my boat being electrically connected to the dock (or throught the dock to another boat) it just like your example without you touching the battery terminal. I do not claim to be an expert, this was the "expert" opinion of the Marine Electrician (who specializes in galvanic corrosion issues)and tested the boat at the slip. There are 10 other boats on my dock, with their outboards just touching the water, and none have disintegrated in 6 months. The original 1989 Evinrudes lasted until 2004 under the same conditions.

maj75 · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

jim dozier · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Galvanic corrosion is common and well known problem with marine (saltwater) equipment. As soon as two dissimilar metals such as your stainless steel prop or prop shaft and the aluminum lower unit housing hit the electrolyte (saltwater), the galvanic potential setup between the two will eat away at the less noble (aluminum) of the two. This is why there are sacrificial anodes of zinc for saltwater. If the zinc is not immersed in the salt water it will not work. The galvanic potential of 2 dissimilar metals can be magnified by stray electrical potentials in the electrolyte (salt water). The electrolyte is an electrical conductor. If an adjacent boat or your own boat was supplying a stray current that was grounding to the dock or some other ground through the electrolyte, and your boat or motor is between the two, galvanic corrosion which is already happening will be magnified, sometimes considerably. Your motor does not have to be connected to either the electric potential source (other boat) or the ground (dock) it merely needs to be inline with the stray electrical potential for galvanic corrosion to be magnified. The saltwater is the "wire" that connects the initiator (other source such as nearby boat), your boat or motor, and the electrical ground (dock or whatever). In my vastly over simplified example you would get a mild shock of 12 volts in your foot (the electrical ground) by placing it in the saltwater where the battery wire (the nearby boat) is submerged . Current will flow through the electrolyte from the wire to your foot. If you place your outboard between your foot and the wire, galvanic corrosion will be worse than if the battery was disconected. None of these 3 items (the wire, the outboard, or your foot) have to be connected to each other by a wire. It is the saltwater that connects them. That said, why is your problem worse that anybody elses. I don't know, but if you want to win your case with Suzuki, you need to investigate nearby boats, your own wiring, and the marina, but that's just my opinion. Were the anodes on the motor bracket submerged? Do what Rodbolt suggested and check the electrical continuity from the motor to the motor bracket. It is unlikely that there was no continuity as you stated since the two are mechanically connected at the tilt tube. However, it is possible that a design or assembly defect has reduced the continuity to an inappropriately low level. Was the power on your boat turned off at the battery switch? How close, and what type of boats were near you. Does your dock have AC power? It is my belief that you don't need a marine electrician, you need a electrical engineer with some experience in corrosion control. This is a well documented problem not only in marine equipment but in industrial pumps and equipment that move liquids many of which can set up galvanic corrosion cells and cause early damage of industrial equipment.

maj75 · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

In your example, if I put my foot in a bucket of salt water with a million volts, I won't get a shock unless I am completing the connection somewhere else. I could float in a swimming pool with 10 million volts without a shock, unless I ground myself to a ladder. There was no "dissimilar metal, only the tip of the aluminum gearcase, which dissolved. The electrician explained that for the electrolytic corrosion to occur from an adjacent source, my boat HAS to be connected to the dock. Why would this guy lie? Are you saying that I should accept your opinion (based solely on my feeble attempts to describe the situation) over that of the master electrician that inspected the boat at the slip? I really don't care who is at fault for my gearcases falling apart in 5 months. It's not my dock and I don't own the adjacent boats. I just reported what I was told by the electrician and the fact that the original engines lasted from 1989 too 2004 without falling apart. I did not do the Suzuki installation, that was handled by an authorized Suzuki dealer. Galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals does not need any electric current, it generates its own. That is why sacrifical anodes are supposed to be bonded to the engine, so the current generated flows through the path of least resistance, the anodes, and they sacrifice themselves. You have not addressed why the engine is not bonded to the zincs on the motor bracket. Irrespective of whether the dock or adjacent boat has a problem, the zincs on my bracket should be gone, before the gear case dissintegrates. The zincs on the motor bracket are still there, protecting the bracket, which has no corrosion damage, despite being underwater. As to why I have a problem, read the original post. If the boat is stored on a rack, trailer or davits, (or the lower unit does not touch the water when trimmed up) this problem will not manifest itself until well after the warranty expires. The dealer installed the engines and the result was that the engines touch the water when trimmed up. There are no warnings to tell an owner to not trim up the engines under this circumstance. The majority of boats with outboards on my dock have their gearcases in the water, without the lower unit zinc touching the water. Their lower units are bonded to the main zinc, protecting them. WOULD ANYBODY BUY A SUZUKI FOR USE IN SALT WATER IF THEY KNEW THAT SUZUKI EXCLUDES ALL CORROSION AND DAMAGE CASUSED BY "EXPOSURE TO SALT WATER OR NORMAL GALVANIC ACTION OR ELECTROLYSIS"????????????? Does the perforation of both gearcases seem "NORMAL" to you? My old lower units were not perforated after years of being in salt water. Galvanic corrosion is a fact of life in the salt water environment. A manufacturer has a duty to sell a product which is fit for its intended use. If your gear cases are perforated in 5 months, are the engines you paid $27,000 for really worth anything?

rodbolt · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

dont wind up at me I just tell it like it is. good luck dealing with suzuki. but I know of one boat that the drive fell off 3 weeks after we launched it. boat had no a/c power. was a 21 ft with a 260 and an alpha drive. we tied it in his slip, 3 weeks later he got onboard fired it up and when applying reverse the drive tore off and was dangling. 3 weeks later the dock was rewired but no one could prove anything. your boat is grounded at all times if its in the water,especially saltwater its grounded. now introduce a current in the water and you will have a complete circuit from the motor to the seafloor. the motor being a different potential than the seafloor and dipped in a conductive medium with a current applied and bingo your units become anodes and the seafloor or a nearby boat with lots of stainless becomes the cathode. I dont know were or if the bonding wires were placed or not placed on your engines. but by your theory the motor was not grounded anyway so its not an issue. the electrical issue here is a difference of potential not current carrying capacitiy. I know where a pair of these engines are and ill try to look at them monday and see if they are bonded. suzuki has never been noted for its corrosion resistance. before 91 we called them alka-seltzer motors. plop them in salt water and watch them fizz. they got better in about 91. your anode on the gear case is held at the same potential as the anode on the bracket by the metal contact or a bonding wire. its possible that the wire was damaged, left off or misspositioned. but with the gear case out of the water, especially if the bracket anode was not properly cleaned before launching, the gearcase may have become an anode. my reccomendation would be to place the boat back in the same spot and test usuing the mercury marine silver chloride refence electrode and a DVM and check fot the potentail to corrode. this will be measured in millivolts. do the test with the drive up and the drive down. should be no change in voltage displayed on the DVM., any mercruiser dealer can run the test. the hull needs to be in the water for 8 hours before testing. your theory of corrosion induced by stray currents is like swiss cheese. stinks and full of holes. you DO NOT need a two way path just a difference of potententail and an electrolyte. you now have a battery.any 8th grader knows that a piece of copper and a piece of zinc suspended in saltwater will induce a voltage and an electron transfer. they dont have to touch anything. it will produce a volt or so. one will become the anode and the other a cathode. same as used in electroplating of metals. the anode gives up electrons and the cathode recives them. so next time you attempt a wind up at least get your facts correct.

jim dozier · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

In my example as stated above in my original comment you would be holding the other terminal of the battery in your hand thus completing the current from the submerged wire through the electrolyte (salt water) into your foot. You can take my opinion and do whatever you want with it. Personally I would get a second opinion on your situation from someone who is in your area to examine and quantify it and has the proper background. I don't think your electrician lied. He no doubt believes he is correct. But you don't know if he graduated in the top of his class at Dade Votech or the bottom half. I am not on Suzuki's side here or against you. I was just pointing out, as others here have, some of the variables which you have or have been told to dismis that might be worth another look. Although you correctly state that only the aluminum of your lower unit was immersed I believe that with stray electrical potentials in the water you could have galvanic corrosion still occur, don't forget there are other dissimilar metals nearby and the addition of a separate electric current stray or otherwise can make things worse or if properly applied as in cathodic protection, protect you from galvanic corrosion. The fact that this happened to both engines can be an argument for or against your case. You might make the case that because it happened to both engines there is a problem with Suzuki. Suzuki's rebuttal might be problems with both engines indicates that it is a problem specific to your boat/location. If it was a problem with only one it might be more likely an isolated problem with a specific engine. Make sure your guns aren't pointed at your head when you fire them. But then you know this because you are an attorney.

jim dozier · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Rodbolt I think his windup was directed at me. But just like stray electrical potential in electrolyte if you get in between the pitcher and the catcher you can get beaned.

DJ · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

The rate at which those things were destroyed is alarming. That may be one "hot" marina. Maybe not. With all that aside, I think your best plan of action should be the following. 1. If the engines were installed by a Suzuki dealer, or approved Suzuki boat builder, that will be to your benefit. 2. Take pictures of other boats, in the same area, with the engines at the same attitude. 3. Get some statements from other boat owners, in the marina, that store their engines like you do. I find it a bit strange that other engines would survive, yet yours went south in five months. Something is not right. It could be the installation, the manufacture of the engines, or the marina. The marina being last since there are other boats there not showing such drastic problems. I personally do not see what you did wrong, but you definetely need to get to the boittom of it. A repeat cannot be tolerated.

Kanadakid · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

I know you are eotinally charges with this situation. This is a terrible ordeal. however, I think you are knocking yourself out. These new engines are not performing and are under warrenty. Send a certified letter to the dealer stating that the lower units disitgrated on you in 5 months. He has 10 days to either repain like new or provide new engines for you. If not Depending on the state. File a lemon law suite against the dealer. Class action suites will give you nothing. The lawyers will get paid ........you will get little. A consumer suite will give you restitution one way or another and you most likely can file the complaint yourself. The dealer may say that it is the fauly of the marina.........but in order for him / suszuki to win. He will have to prove it. If he is able to prove it.......you now have a rock solid case against the marina. IMO the it will be much easier for the dealer /suzuki to repair your engines. But you will have to get serious with them first. The engines don't work. make the dealer prove (not just pass the buck) that it is not the fault of the mfg. Put them on the hot seat and take yourself off. Hope this helps, Kid

JRJ · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

Some years ago my Bro in Law bought a Trophy with twin Force motors at the Miami show. You two have a lot in common. He just sold his quietly

seahorse5 · Apr 22, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

One other point of corrosion is if the copper bottom paint in saltwater (electrolyte) used the aluminum gearcases as anodes, the aluminum being a less noble metal, will get eaten away. In this case you would also have a "battery", just like putting a piece of copper and a piece of aluminum in any type of conductive liquid. Like Rodbolt's experience, I've seen outdrives turn white and disintegrate when left in the water. I once saw a bass boat with a battery hooked up with the trolling motor incorrectly and the potential between the trolling motor and the outboard was 12 volts. You could watch the bubbles rise from around the outboard. In a weekend, the gearcase looked like it had acne scars. Maj75, keep us informed as to what each party you contact says and does. Thanks and good luck to you.

Steamboat · Apr 23, 2005

Re: Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

I agree with KanadaKid on the approach through warranty but if you decide to follow the lawsuit direction, get both a marine surveyor and a licensed profesional electrical engineer or a forensic engineer (someone trained and certified to determine what went wrong). These individuals will carry far more weight in a legal battle than a master marine electrician.

Suzuki 4-Stroke Corrosion Disaster

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