Still wont start - what's next?

R

Rmsari

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Haffiman said:
Defective/missing crank shaft seals will lead to loss of crank shaft compression, at least lower cylinder.
Parts here:
http://www.marineengine.com/parts/j...803C&manufacturer=Evinrude?ion=Gearcase+Group
Click to expand...

Thanks - I assume you are referring to the seal lower bearing. Is it the spring that causes pressure to seal it? In doing a quick look it - looked ok but the O ring and gasket (#1) was a little narled up. Overall top seal looks ok, pistons and walls look smooth. I still need to check reed valve. Thinking while I'm this far may as well change rings, clean up pistons, put new gaskets (including seals), and rebuild carb and put back together. I'm assuming I have to split the case to put new rings in correct? Does this seem worth the effort? Kind of looking at this as a kearing experience. Appreciate all your help!!
 
R

Rmsari

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Oh well looks like I did enough damage for today. My new favorite tool is an impact driver and a camera so I can figure out how to put back together. I think I need to have a beer before I tackle needle bearings.

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H

Haffiman

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

A critical area is the sealing between the two crank cases (center bearing). What did the leaf plate/valves look like?
 
RandyJ

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Half the fun of having an old junk motor like this is in the learning experience! I've "wasted" hundreds of hours "learning" and now am pretty dog gone good at making just about anything like this run.... not always run good but I now know pretty much what to look for and where to get about any kind of part. Prior to the internet I just about could not get parts or anyone to work on old motors more than 10 years old... I don't own a motor less than about 30 years old...and I've got piles of them.
 
H

Haffiman

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Learning is not a waste, but not using what you have learned is!
Don't just 'pile' the oldies, make them run!
 
R

Rmsari

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Leaf plate seems to look ok but to be honest never seen one up close and personal till today.:)
What do you think? Also what kind of sealent is best for cankcase?

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H

Haffiman

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Leaf plates looks 'rusty' and I would say questionable. Rusty plates gets brittle and may crack if/when you get it going.
For the crank case halves only use a sealant called Gel Seal II. Extremely important that the surface is 100% clean and all remains of old Gel Seal is removed.
For all other gaskets except gaskets on leaf plate and intake/carb, use BPR Sealing Compound or Loctite Aviation. Use Sealing Compound on all screws like head screws, exhaust cover screws, engine-leg screws, gearcase-leg, water pump etc.
Get a min 1/2" thick glass plate, glue on an 800 grit wet paper and use it to clean and plane out head, cyl-head surface, cyl-leg, but NOT crank case halves!!! Use WD 40 or kerosine as wet medium, not water.
 
R

Rmsari

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Haffiman said:
Leaf plates looks 'rusty' and I would say questionable. Rusty plates gets brittle and may crack if/when you get it going.
For the crank case halves only use a sealant called Gel Seal II. Extremely important that the surface is 100% clean and all remains of old Gel Seal is removed.
For all other gaskets except gaskets on leaf plate and intake/carb, use BPR Sealing Compound or Loctite Aviation. Use Sealing Compound on all screws like head screws, exhaust cover screws, engine-leg screws, gearcase-leg, water pump etc.
Get a min 1/2" thick glass plate, glue on an 800 grit wet paper and use it to clean and plane out head, cyl-head surface, cyl-leg, but NOT crank case halves!!! Use WD 40 or kerosine as wet medium, not water.
Click to expand...


For the leaf plate are you referring to the reeds (#4)? Thanks for advice on sealent.

If/when I get it started I owe you a case a beer (wonder what shipping is to malaysia :) )

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H

Haffiman

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Yes, reed #4 does not look in too good condition.
Remember to use Loc-Tite on the screws when/if removing. In addition I used to take a punch and 'deform' the screws at the back to be sure they did not get out.
 
R

Rmsari

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Just had a pretty major duh moment. In looking at crank i was trying to figure out how this thing gets sealed at top. In looking at it dawned on me it is missing the top seal under the cam. When I pulled off cam and I just assumed the painted clay colored surface under it was rubber. It's not it cast. Thing was missing top seal. #53 in attached. I'm guessing that would lead to not having good crankcase compression and no start correct? Althought I don't know how I got it started the 1st time (50 pulls and all)..

seal.png
 
H

Haffiman

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

No top seal, not too good bottom seal, hopefully you are closing in!
 
R

Rmsari

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Haffiman said:
No top seal, not too good bottom seal, hopefully you are closing in!
Click to expand...
I think you're right. You got me in the right direction in the crank compression problem spots.

I'm going to do the rings in any case - might as well since I already split the case. I've gotten some mix responses on compression (currently at 55psi). Only area I'm still a little concerned with is the crank sealent - I'm sure I will have some more ?'s. I think I have a new hobby:)
 
R

Rmsari

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

Another major duh moment - scaping off gasket on top of the thermostat housing and looks like I took a chunck out of the top. Black was not gasket but actual soft cast - turned black. I can try to either sand down to smooth out or hit hard with gasket sealent and hope it does not leak. Little concerend about sanding and interferring with thermostat. What do you think?

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H

Haffiman

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Re: Still wont start - what's next?

I would have tried taking it 'down' a bit, the thermostat gasket just get squeezed a bit more. If too much, use a double gasket under the cover.
 
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