self etching primer vs zinc chromate

[Triton II]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

You get what you pay for! If your economics preclude such a job, use what you have and stop fretting about it. Expect it to need recoating in 2 years, then spend 12 more bucks and do it over again. Part of the fun of having a boat is tinkering with it once in awhile.

Well said Jim. Here in south-east Queensland there a lot of shoally, sandy shallows and skegs and props suffer. I bought a rattle can of Yamaha blue outboard paint and simply keep spraying the skeg whenever it gets scuffed. Looks like new even though half the rattle can is gone after two seasons. The prop is SS so I'm not so worried about it...

TII

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Well the epoxy paint i'm talking about is still in the spray paint form at autozone.Thats what i'm talking about not spraying with a compressor.I found epoxy paint there in cans so thats what i need to know about.Is epoxy black in a can better then rustoleum or the phantom black?

Also will it work for the cowl?

 

[kilowatts]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Hi Guys:

My money's still on Rustoleum. Takes a little longer to dry but lasts longer than other rattle can paints.

kilowatts

 

[JimS123]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

A true epoxy requires blending the resin with a hardening agent. The coating film cures by chemical reaction and is an extremely hard and durable product. Saltwater is a piece of cake. Epoxy can be used to coat an acid tank.

You can't get it as a single component in a rattle can, thus it must be blended and applied using professional painting equipment. Single component "epoxy" spray cans are more than likely a simple alkyd with an epoxy monomer added in to make it sound good. Simple adsvertising BS.

 

[RRitt]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Maybe I am spoiled by too much use of Dupont's and PPG's. I have shelves with every paint discussed here and I even have a 5 gallon bucket for alodine (aka chem dip). Of them all, hardware store rustoleum is the worst product I have. Second is hardware store red-devil enamel, third is industrial rustoleum. Hardware store rustoleum's biggest problem is it's inability to apply an even coating to an uneven surface.

You don't have to spend a ton of money on equipment to get a good paint job. Harbor freight puts a pancake compressor on sale for $39 every month or so. They have one coming up after thanksgiving. Just don't overuse it and let it run hot. Hot compressors will put water vapor into your air. They also sell an quickchange airbrush for $9. You can buy empty aspirin bottles for 0.15 each and throw them away instead of cleaning up. I just don't see why anybody would use inferior paints.

************************************************
oh, regarding epoxy. There are two ways to make paint.

One way is to dissolve paint in a solvent. When sprayed the solvent evaporates and the paint hardens. This type of paint can usually be softened or removed by putting solvent on a rag and wiping. This type of paint is suitable for use in aerosol form.

The other way is two have two chemicals that react with each other to form a molecular bond. This type of paint usually has to be used within 72 hours of mixing. It is not suitable for use in aerosol form. Most of these paints arrange into interlocking strands when they cure and can not be removed with solvents.

It is just like glue. You have elmers and you have JB Weld.

 

[dingbat]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

(PS - the post above came while I was typing. I didn't think any OEM outboard paint was lacquer any more. Surely, based on your past problems it doesnt sound like it is. But better find out for sure)

Tempo and Moeller both sell their Phantom Black in lacquer.

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Ok so it seems like the rutoleum is out for me as there are a couple of people who think it's garbage.I will use the mercury phantom black paint.I'm sure if i do it right i will get a few yrs out of it.I am over doing the situation and just need to get her done.

50/50 vinegar wash,2 very light coats of moeller zc primer,2 coats of black and one more if needed and be done with it.No clear coat.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

I disagree that Rusto is junk but your plan sounds like a good one to me.

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

I don't thing ruto is junk i'm just going by what the people are saying on here.Also i want to know is a black lacquer paint better then an enamel paint as the phantom black is?

I have worked my butt off to the point i also sanded my fingers half off to (ha ha).My fingers were bleeding from sading so much.Thats why i want to do this the best way possibe for the most reasonable amount of money.I just want to know what paint in a can will hold up the best.I know the zc will hold up as i have read more into it.But i don't care if the can of paint is pricey as long as it's not crazy,crazy priced then i will buy it.I don't paint much and i may here soon just buy a aluminum boat that has bad fading paint and get a compressor and whatever else i need and practice on that.If i screw up the boat in the area i did then i can just use the aircraft stripper.As with an outboard it's more tedious work and the aircraft stripper will tear everything to pieces.

That makes sense right?I have never needed so much patience to do something like this.Plus for the last week here in fl the wind has been whirling so i havn't been able to paint anyway.Monday the wind is suppose to subside to like 5mph or less perfect conditions to paint i would presume.I am also doing it outside in a little wood shed i built with a tarp around it as it is 100% waterproof.I am starting a business of buying and selling outboards up to 25hp as the demand for bigger outboards is not there.So i really need to learn how to paint just in case i get a outboard with a clean motor and the paint is bad i can put a nice reasonable paint job on it to make it more desirable to the public.I hide nothing from people either as i tell them everything that has been done to them.Honesty is the best policy and the only way i will ever go.

This outboard i'm painting now is my own personal motor.I should of just did the right thing when i got it.The lower unit had some small chips and i should of just sanded them out and just painted it.But i just got the urge to just do the whole thing for some reason.The motor is a 2001 15hp merc with less then 45 total minutes on it.The guy i bought it from just took it out of the box this july and used it as a demo in his marina and sold the prop off it to someone.His guys moved it a few times and thats were the chips came from other wise it is brand new and still needs to be broken in.I got it for $1000 which was a crazy steal.I put it up on craigslist for $2000 obo and i had a guy come over and offer me $1600 cash but i said no as i have been wanting this motor for yrs and yrs ever since they stopped production.The next one i want is a 25hp merc as a keeper motor.That will go on a new 16ft alumacraft next yr.Ok sorry so long.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

I know I allready chimed here..but..

If its bare alum... you really should alumprep..alodine.. then ZC prime.

I just fear any alum under water that does not have these coatings..

Watch your application windows.....

What you dont want is too much time between the processes... wash and rinse..dry..and then prime.. you can allways go from there..

I Allways do these stages in ONE DAY.. not allowing any kind of dew or humidity affecting my job... but its just me here ..

YD.

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Were do i get this alodine and alumaprep from anyway as i have never used it before?Also i will do this in one day yacht dr as you made a very good point.Here in fl the weather changes like womens attitudes=a ton.So i will start in the late morning like 10 am and try to finish it all in one shot.

 

[RRitt]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

alodine is a chemical wash. Almost like brushing on bleach to kill residual mildew.
brush and wait a minute then rinse it off. It leaves a slight yellow stain in the metal. Don't expect it to work like paint. It is not a coating. It is a conversion coating that chemically alters the top layer of molecules. It just looks like a stain. And it will stain anything (even plastic) so be careful what it touches.

you can buy the dry form from some place like summit racing. I think the trade name is chem-dip for the dry stuff and the smallest purchase I have ever seen is 50 gallon size. The wet version is trade-named alodine and comes in gallon or quart jugs. You can mail order it from aircraft spruce. PPG dealers resell alodine as DX503. I forget Duponts trade name for it. You can just look up automotive body shop supplies and wholesale in your local yellow pages. a lot of cars have aluminum doors, hoods, trunk lids, hard tops, etc. So an alodine type product is going to be in stock at any body shop supplier.

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Thanks rritt but i don't think i need to go through all that crazy stuff for it.I will just do the old 50/50 water -vinegar clean,2 light coats of zc,2 coats of the phantom black paint or some type of black lacquer paint.I would thing gloss black is just that no matter what brand you buy.

I found some epoxy paint made by vht that is suppose to be made for metal,it has all kinds of rustproof stuff in it and is suppose to hold up as well as a baked on finish,it also comes in gloss black.

Anyone ever heard of this stuff and is it good stuff?It's only $8 a can.Seems like it would be better then the enamel paint i want to use.Any opinions on this?It also says no need for primer or curing as it is fully dry overnight.Just curious about it.

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Any help on the vht epoxy paint from autozone.It's used for tools,axles,and other stuff on cars.It's made specifically for metal.It is rust and salt resistant,All weather paint,no cure time either as it dries to touch in 30 minutes,dries overnight to use.It also states that you don't need to prime before using this stuff but i still will.It states it self primes.Seems like this is the best way to go.Anyone use this stuff?Will it go over zc or self etching primer.Thanks for any help on this one.

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Talked to a guy who works at autozone who works on boats and paints.He said do 2 coats of zc and 2 coats of the phantom black enamel so that is what i'm going with.If it needs a third coat go with it but no more then that.He said i could use duplicolors 500 degree heat resistant gloss black engine enamel also.But he said stick with the factory paint it's the best way.I will let you guys know how it turns out,then the engine cowl is next.

 

[Gary H NC]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

All the lower units and drives i have painted did much better with one very light coat of Zinc Chromate.
I tried the 2 coats and had problems with the paint wrinkling or having an orange peel affect.
Just my experience....

 

[thefairlaneman]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

For a small job you can use the white epoxy bathtub re finisher sold at home depot as the primary coat . Then paint with rustolium

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Garyhnc when your talking real light how much is light,like maybe a dust coat?I know one thing when i sanded down the lower unit and hit the original green zc that stuff was darn thick and darn near impossible to sand.But i guess if one light coat will do the trick then that is what i will go with.Also when you sprayed the zc did you sand it?Also how long did you wait to top coat it?

 

[kilowatts]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

Hi Guys:

The ZC is only applied to coat the bare aluminum. It does absolutely nothing for the existing paint. Thin coat only on the bare metal and a quick zip over the rest for continuity. Forgive me but I don't really understand why you sanded your finger's off. You only need to scuff and dull the existing paint.

kilowatts

 

[boater1234]

Re: self etching primer vs zinc chromate

I atempted to repaint the lower unit from the cavitation plate down,then decided to do the whole motor and screwed it up badly by putting way to much paint on it so it all peeled and then some.I did sand to just scuff it up the first time i did it belive me.The top half came out rather nice besides a few small runs and the paint did not peel there but the lower unit looked like garbage and would never pass my expectations.I will do this 50 times if i have to till i get it rite.

I had 2 choices after i screwed it up sand to scuff it up a little and repaint it again which is what i was gonna do but then all the paint starting peeling off the lower unit right down to the bare metal and most of it came off easy,like the big parts.It peeled so bad the original factory paint came off with it.So i decided on route 2 sand all the way down to the metal from just above the cavitation plate down.I got every milk and crany that is why it took me days to do it and my fingers were raw.

I have never painted a full outboard before only touch ups.This is a complete learning process for me so bare with me please as i'm clueless about painting.Jims123 suggested either way to do it so i took his advice and i'm glad i did it this way as i know the paint will be rite and done to my expectations.From the cavitation plate up just needs one good coat of black as i just wet sanded any runs out of it and scuffed it up with 1000 grit sand paper and it came out sweet and under the cav plate down needs zc and 2 to 3 coats of black paint and done.

The biggest mistake i did last time was do it at night when it was colder out and i put way to much paint on and it ran bad.The only reason i did alot of paint i figured it would protect it better plus i read a thread here about a guy who put 7 coats of white on a outboard and held up nicely.Is there any truth to this that more is better or vice versa not to much as it is bad to do.How many top coats is the perfect amount were it is not to much and there will be the least chance for it to peel off?I know to put the zc on very lite like dust so i have that down.Any help would be great as monday is the day i will tackle this baby.