Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Going to cut out the transom. After I cut them out. How do I bond them? Is it only 1 layer of csm and poly between the 2 sheets? I know I need to sand the ply surfaces first. Is 1 enough or do u need more? Once that is bonded together. Use the same method to bond to the hull then use thru bolts and spare wood to clamp it down? Or do u just use a diluted pb mix?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

1.5 oz CSM in between layers and use a "Ketchup" consistency mix to bond em together. Make em oversized because they WILL slip. Do the final cut after they dry. Or use screws and then fill the screw holes later. Use regular PB mix to attach to hull again with 1.5 oz mat and use PLENTY so you don't get air pockets and DON"T clamp to hard so you don't squeeze it all OUT! Be prepared to fillet the sqeezeout around the edges. Make sure to wax all your Clamping material so it does NOT get stuck. DO a DRY run first to make sure everything fits and you have it in your mind how all the steps are going to go. You only get one chance one the resin is mixed and starting to set up.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Is poly okay? Or should I use epoxy? And roughly how much pb should I make? Ive never made pb before. I have the recipe. But am not sure how much a quart covers with all the stuff added or half gal. I just don't want to use to little

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

what's the approx size of your transom

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

70"L x 24"h by the plug. 18"h on the gunwhale.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

3/8 to 1/2 gal oughta be about right. I like to use epoxy on the transom but lots of guys use poly with NO PROBLEMS. what ever you want to use is fine. Key is try to get a good even coat so as to NOT get any air pockets and DO NOT clamp to tight but tight enough to get a good bond. How are you going to clamp out on the outer edges?

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

There isn't any wood around the drain hole. But a bolt thru the drain hole with a 2x4 then the 2 motor mounts with a 2x4 across. Then 2 bolts on each side thru the tie downs. These r located on the upper part of the transom by gunwhales. Not sure how to clamp the bottom corners other than using a 2x4 across the motor mounts along the bottom of the transom. I'm on my phone. But I'll post pictures later. I'm at work now :/

Any suggestions

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

I like using these. Cost less than 10 bucks to build even less if you got some 2x4's layin around. I use some 12" bolts instead of all thread. Just tighten the lower bolt snug then tighten the top to squeeze the lower jaw then tighten the lower bolt again to squeeze the upper portion of the transom. The work really well. 2x4's are 5 ft long. you need two bolts 6nuts and 6 washers per clamp. I use 3/4inch bolts.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Maybe I'll make 2 for the very sides, do u think my current bolt pattern will work enough? I have a couple 2x4s and on a pretty tight budget. I like that idea tho. Giant wood clamps. I use to use those all the time in shop class. Thanks for the help. In my pics u can see how the wood is cut out around the drain hole. I like this design because it keeps the wood out of the little bit of water. Even if it's just alittle bit. The transom will be fully glassed in and stringers and bulks will have drains with PVC pipe halfs. Then I'm gonna lay 1/2" rope along stringers when I pour the foam then remove the rope. This will create a drainage channel. Any special technique to glass in the PVC/ drain holes? Glass? Or just 5200 it with my finger

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

does anyone have any clue/tips on how to remove the remaining amount of wood stuck to the glass once you remove a transom? the grinder with any sort of wheel doesnt work. im now just using a chisel slowly removing a piece at a time, but this is taking FOREVER!!!! anyone have any ideas?

 

[tschmidty]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

A flapper sanding disc should make quick but messy work of it. Those things chew some material. And poly is fine. I would tab the transom all the way around the hull and to the stringers since it didn't seem to be that way before. And poly then inside of all your bolt holes.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Thanks tschmidy. I had bought dewalt flap disks. They r rigid and come in 40 grit at 8.00 a pop(tpo expensive) so I bought a round rubber sand pad (made for angle grinders) and 26 grit paper. Much cheaper and oh my god does it chew material. Grinded the entire transom surface and Removed the rotted wood and glass. I also found cdx underlay with no voids pressure treated for 35 a sheet 3/4". So I'm going to return the sheathing grade that has voids

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

This is yesterdays update i managed to remove the transom in one piece so i have a perfect template to trace for the new transom.

half the transom was still soaked

i used the pry bars after cutting the glass around the edge to seperate the wood from the outer shell enough to get 1x6 into the crevice. i got about 6 1x6's in there and hammered them all down slowly allowing time after each hammer stroke for the glass to separate. you can here it crackling. at first i was very wary about putting to much stress on the outer skin, but it actually could take alot of stress without cracking the gelcoat. i hammered each 1x6 a couple times and moved onto the next one which gave each one time to seperate on its own. i didnt want to force it so to speak(do it too fast) once it was done crackling, i started to hammer them down again. the bottom wouldnt release because of the filet so i grinding the hull where it was built up/bad glass job and it finally released in one piece.

one side came off much better than the other...the easy side was more rotted however maybe that had alittle to do with it

I tried the stainless steel grinder (sucks on wood), chisel (too slow), then went to home depot bought a rubber backer and some circular 26grit sand paper, its make for the angle grinder rubber backer adapter. and this worked wonders on the wood and the glass. (new best friend)

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Drove to the nearest fiberglass supply store today...just so happens to only be 20 min away. You guys should check this place out online....they have really good prices. its called Merton's fiberglass supply or www.mertons.com The only reason i bring this up, is because he has better prices on everything than any online distributer before shipping. now i know i picked stuff up in person so i didnt pay shipping. so i donno what shipping costs are but its worth checking out.

Fiberglass Material and Supplies Cost

7 yards 38" 1.5oz csm - 20.00
5 gal pale of poly laminating resin (catalyst included)- 121.00
1/2 lb cabosil - 11.00
1 lb milled fibers - 4.00
6 foam rollers and roller cage - 8.00
bubble buster roller - 8.50
5 paint tray liners - 2.00
total - 184.70 with tax

Wood
2 sheets 3/4" cdx underlay(no void ply) 75.00 with tax

Transom cost 259.70

I will have resin left over. i anticipate about 2.5 gal to wet out all the glass(including the one layer that will be used to adhere the 2 sheets of ply together as well as coat the plywood with resin.) and another 1 gal to make my own peanut butter (hull putty/ bedding compound) to bond the transom to the hull. The 2 sheets is enough to do my transom plus all my stringers. Minus 2 1X8x10's for the main stringers. so there is minimal waste.

The transom surface is ready for the new transom...i think.

I have one question as this pertains to the "ready" part. when i seperated the transom, there were 2 parts different pieces of glass that came undone. if you look in my previous post you can see in some of the pictures. i believe the 2 different pieces are. the actual outer transom shell(hull) and then a piece of CSM that was used to bond the original transom to the hull). at first the hole for the outdrive was 2 different thickness because the right side of the transom kept the CSM but the left side did not, leaving it attached to the hull. i ground most of it off as it was a really bad mechanical bond(wasnt wet out enough when installed leaving dried fibers with no resin or not enough resin)

Heres my question, most of the CSM that remains attached to the outer shell is in good condition after i grinded the crappy parts off. as long as the area where the transom shield and gimbal housing mount are the same thickness does it matter if i leave the CSM off to the side when i go to bond the new transom? or should i grind it all down to the same thickness? my only concern is, it is very hard to tell when i reach the "outer skin" where the csm was put on good.

you can see what im talkin about in these 2 pictures. i took a closer up so you can see it better. all the parts that appear white, where grinded off today, and the area around the outdrive hole is all the same thickness now... just wondering what i should do with the rest of the transom. esp if im mounting it with PB.

 

[rickryder]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

I would grind it down untill it was clean,not saying to remove it all but you want clean new glass exposed. The PB should fill in any hi/low spots but clean raw glass will get you a much better bond. Remember to wash it down well with acetone before you lay up.

Your doing a fine job on the demo! Can't wait to see some new pieces going back in

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

thanks rick...the weather is getting warmer. and i have no problem with being in cold water. and my wakeboard tower just showed up this week so im itchin to get out and shred

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Rellik,

I know you ain't gunna like this but... Grind it all the way to the outer skin. You're there, you've done a GREAT job so far, take another hour and grind that puppy smooth so you KNOW for sure that this NEW transom is gunna be RIGHT! And you will NEVER NEVER have to do it again. But hey, I'm just a dumb OLD OKIE, What the heck do I KNOW!!!!

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

wood,

you are one of the forums most respected. i know your right, its just so hard to tell the difference between the properly glass csm and outer skin. its easy to tell the badly laid csm as i have already ground this off. i will take your advice and use my level(48") to determine high spots vs low spots and try to grind it down the best i can to "level" i very much so respect your opinion, and every time you offer advice i consider it very heavily weighted. as one of the communities veterans, you often reply to my thread with your advice, and i appreciate that very much. as a youngster im very much so willing to admit i know very little about boat building. i have read many threads including oops very extensive thread and many others. i am not trying to create short cuts to reduce work, but merely trying to establish what is over kill, and what isnt enough. I have very small boat, and after talking to a few local ( the fiberglass supply store, who specializes in boat material, and marinas) ive realized alot of people over build. i dont have a problem with this, as i wished i could. but on a limited budget i have realized CSM and it lasted 30 years. i also understand from you and other veterans that boats are built with cost in mind....just because manufacturers used certain techniques doesnt mean they are the proper way to build a boat, its an adequate balance of the two. you could spend a million bucks to build a boat bullet proof, but at a certain point you are just throwing away money. I am taking my boats original construction, and taking it a bit further(wrapping the stringers, coating the ply with resin first, and using better glass than original construction...as far as im concerned this if "over build" even if it means its not enought to this community. with that said. i respect every one in the iboats communities opinion, and take it into consideration. they often times offer different ideas, and techniques to re build, of which i have used many....and am very appreciative.

so i would like to take this time now to thank every one of you that have responded to my thread or have made a post on this site, or a professional boat builder, and even the gutsy people like myself who have attempted to rebuild their own boats to save money under the guidance of the people who answer questions on this forum, whether professional, amateur, or novice.

Thanks everybody. as a youngster...i try to learn from the best and i consider iboats the best place to learn anything and everything you need for boating needs.

 

[rickryder]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Wood is correct the flatter the better.... I didn't mean to leave extreme hi spots but rather to get down to the good glass.....some minor imperfections are acceptable IMO.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Yep, you DON'T have to have a POOL TABLE but.... Just make sure that what's there is SOLID, AND it will NOT interfere with the Bonding of the NEW. You have worked your ***** off and you deserve to reap the rewards of your superior efforts. Believe me I KNOW how tedious this work is and how, the close we get to spring and summer we want to PUSH to "GIT ER DUN" but... keep your steay pace, dot it RIGHT and it will PAY OFF, in the end. Remember the Tortise and the Hare. It really IS a TRUE STORY!!! Keep up your FANTASTIC EFFORTS. IT WILL pay off in the end.