Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

removed all the foam from the boat, removed the cap. and removed all tabbed fiberglass from old deck.

pics to come

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Having never done what you are ready to do. I wonder as you look at this cattycomb of ply an bulks layed by production workers from a print in most cases to increase productivty by using bare minimum of material pre-cut to get the job done have you thought that once you get to the clean slate of a bare hull you can basically do what you want and over engineer or copy what is already there. If it were me Iwould keep it simple and go with 3 bulk heads one just ahead of the bilge and one just about mid deck and one below the walk through, with the use of 3/4 ply and that to be doubled for the stringers run all the way up under the bow seating area clear back to th transom and building the motor mounts off that (same as factory ) I would also engineer mounts that would accept a v6 or v8 in the future while your there doing it. I do believe removing the cap was a good decission with the amount of work your taking on maybe after each installation step set the cap back into place to ensure the hull hasn't distorted. Ihope this helps and good luck.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

thanks fat fanny. i have thought about running 2x6 instead 1x6 or 3/4 ply. depending on how wide the strake is i might be able to. i just dont want to cause a hard/soft spot in the hull under the stringer. i know that peanut butter is layed under the stringer but if the string is hangin off of a dip in the fiberglass this may cause a weak point when the glass flexs. so im probably gonna keep it the same. I have no idea where the motor mounts for a v6/ or v8 would go. the current mount isnt even attached to the stringer. its resting on the floor and taped into place. i might continue the length of the new mount and somehow tie it into the bulkhead for strength, and to eliminate the pressure of the ply against the hull from the weight of the motor. i think removing and installing the cap after each replacement is also a good idea, im only going to remove one stringer at a time also so it will be less likely to flex. the bottom 1/4 to 1/3 of the transom is not rotted. but the wood is dark and wet... its still drillable. like it doesnt desinerate or feel like mush. also there are no stress crack or spiders in the glass or gelcoat. i only plan on keeping the boat a few years so i might not replace it...i think it will last :/ i know this goes against iboats ways...and my own...but my brother is sort of talking me into it....as we have no clue how to realign the motor after removing it....removing it seems like the easy party just label the 4 harnesses, and remove the throttle cables. but i am concerned about remounting it onto 1 the new motor mount which may or may not be perfectly in place like the current one and centered. and also the height. otherwise id love to do the transom...just makes sense while im in there.

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

After pullin the cap pull the o/d and then the motor easier than you think get a manual (seriously) then take reference measurements from a spot thats not gonna be changed (string line and plumb bob) then triangulate. This is a method that also can help you maintain level deck hieght throughout the build. But copying the oem mounts would be the1st step for me then document those measured reference points maybe like you said after removin the cap install all-thread across the rig to hold hull shape low enough to re-install the cap from time to time and u can use the rod's for a measuement reference point. Also if in fact u do plan to due the transom that would be where I would start and work my way forward transom,bilge and motor mounts (dry fit) and then stringers and associated bulks (dry fit) then measure from reference points for deck pitch to bilge . Just a side note u mentioned not kepping this rig very long man this allot of expensive time consumming work that you'll never re-coup on a re-sale or trade you do know that!!!!!

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

yeah but the boat has a newly rebuilt motor and new aftermarket drive. my budget for boating is about 1000 a year for repairs....and i love building stuff so its more of an experience thing. also i graduate college this semester and i figure after getting a real job...i currently work full time, and take 15 credits. that i will have more money for a nicer boat...id like to get an inboard wakeboard boat. we are turning this boat into a wakeboard boat. getting it a tower and couple ballasts. im not sure if i know what you mean by "then measure by reference points for deck pitch to bilge" didnt the factory have a pitch back to the bilge already? or no? i suppose i can check with a level...but its on a trailer in the driveway...not level.

i have no idea how to use a string line and plump bob, i understand that you hang the bob on a string and it will be completely straight up and down, but how does that help you lay a deck/stringer height?

How much do u think it would cost to get a marina or boat shop to align the motor? perhaps thats the one thing i should let the pros use. im not to worried about taking out the outdrive/motor. just the getting it in part.

Thanks for your help tho.

I already have both the alpha one, and mercruiser 140 manual, i will look at them later for removal.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

i want to design my deck in a way that fat fanny recommend, where the deck is slightly sloped towards the bilge, im not sure if the original design of the boat called for that. but there will be lots of people in and out of the boat in terms of swimming and boarding, wet life vests and boards. im putting alot of effort into making sure water cant intrude into the wood, a drainage system would aide in that and would direct water directly to the bilge reducing the probability of water rot.

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Setting a string line and plumb bob is easy you need that reference point at the top of the gunwhale (side of the boat) mount your threaded rod across the beam to the other side tie the string with the plumb bob to it as a hieght reference then use a level and put another rod in somewhere midway toward the bow and use the same measured hieght there this will leave you with a level line so to say and with that as a reference you can determine any pitch on the deck you wish using a S hook works well so you can move the bob from place to place contractors use this method with a string line and a line level and then measure down from the level line to get a level surface such as when laying concreate and floor joists. I hope this info helps because what your about to take on is a massive undertaking which will most likely disolve your yearly boating budget in a heart beat and then some let alone the labor involved and will most likely take a good 4 to 6 months due to inexperience and all the unknowns that pop up along the way. Just for the record Iwould never take this job on this close to the boating season without another rig to fall back on.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

first off....just got back from the bar(in college still) second off my common sense/engineering skills are actually pretty high. that is why i ask so many questions....want to do it right!!!! this may sound dumb. but what if the driveway/trailer isnt level..... then the entire level measurement will be off, or am i wrong? assuming the trailer is on a level surface your method would make sense, as i could decrease the height that the string hangs in the front...which would mean when i go to cut my stringers, they would be taller in the front, thus sloping backwards toward the transom....but what if my boat isnt level? and what exactly is level? say the trailer is level... and u hang the plumb from the stern of the boat off the threaded bar that will keep the boat from flexing....obviously the cap isnt level as it is shaped, so you take a level and drill hulls in the hull and mount another threaded bar level to first bar. even if it is a different height on the cap as the cap will very.... they generally arent flat. if the two bars are level, u would raise the line of the plumb bob on the front bar, as to create a pitch that would drain to the bilge. but if the boat isnt level, how would you deal with that. levels only deal with little air bubbles in a liquid chamber....i suppose i could jack the boat till its level....but in all honesty what is level.....some bows are extremely deep and sit lower than the stern(deep v's) can you private message me? perhaps if we chatted i would better understand.

Again thanks for your help. as i was originally going to reference where the current floor is now, then cut the stringers to that. this whole plumb bob thing however sounds like it would lead to better drainage results...i suppose i could just drop my rear string height, which i have marked on the transom by 1/2 to 1 inch and it would drain as well, and perhaps be less complicated.

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

U got a PM

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

so after much debate on what material to use to rebuild the deck strings and transom i have desided on MDO or HDO plywood. its used in concrete pouring/molds. i has the same glue as both marine and exterior grade plywood. but has the added benefit of having sealed/waterproof veneer on the outside. so effectively you only need to seal the edge. saving on resin thanks woodonglass.

Marine grade plywood debate thread
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=459828&highlight=plywood

im also going to buy a gallon of epoxy resin, and will only use this to seal the edges of the plywood. i would use poly, but poly doesnt seal well without glass, and will flake off of bare wood in a couple months. i will then use poly resin with a 24oz nonwoven double bias stitchmat to cover wrap the stringer. the stitchmat and poly will not adhere/adhere well to edge of the plywood that was coated with epoxy. as poly cannot be applied on epoxy. however i do not care as it will not deduce enough from the stregth of the wrap. the original design only had glass going up 3" of the stringer. the poly will have plenty of strength bonding to the 6" of the stringer, than not bonding on top, then bonding to the other side of the stringer. i am going to wrap each string 2 times. the first will have 4" of hull contact and the next will have another 2 inch over lap.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

so i ran into something today when measure the old transom...the whole transom across the back of the boat is only 3/4" think ply then glassed like usual, but there is a 16w" by 22h" 3/4" plywood plate thats also glasses on where the transom assembly/gimbal bracket mount... is this normal? the motor in the boat is not the one that came with it. when i replace the transom, should i make the whole thing 1 1/2" or just do what the manufacturer did.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

so this whole grinding thing is alot of fun. i really like doing projects like this...and i have a small boat. unlike oops! major project he undertook. we have 2 grinders and my brother and i and between the 2 of us it goes fast. one thing i noticed though, no matter what cutter attachment i put on the grinder(flapper disk, grinding disk or diamond wheel) nothing wants to cut through the now frozen soaking wet plywood at the base of the stringers, the tool so far is just the claw side of the hammer and some force. claw it out then grind away. its amazing how much water was in them.

The shopvac is probably the most appreciated tool along with the resperator and tyvek suit. hardly any itch and i have a good filter on the shop vac, its not the allergen one, but the dust one. does a really good job of filtering the air, as well as sucking the dust coming off the grinder.

ill check in soon with more picks...currently its snowing/raining...great....

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

By some Johnsons Baby powder and talc youself down before putting on the tyvek suit. You'll never itch. I'd make your transom EXACTLY like it is. What grit you using on your flap wheels?

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

One of these is really helpful. Use 36 grit flap discs. Use baby powder before suiting up and you'll never itch. Use a circulare saw but be careful on the saw depth. cross cut the crap out of the wood and then use the grinder.

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

woodon, do u know what they are called? ill purchase one asap, looks like it would come in handy

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

oh btw i swear that everywhere around me doesnt know the value of the stuff they sell. i got 36grit dewalt flappers for 3.50 a piece at lowes...and my home depot has 3m marine 5200 1/10 gal tubes for 11 bux. then i got 2 6 amp grinders for 28 bux a piece. the ones from harbor frieght were the same price or alil less without shipping and only 4.5 amps... its like no one uses boat stuff around here or fixes up their own boat. there is a fiberglass supply store that i can get 10 gals of poly resin for 242. and 50' 24oz double bias stitchmat for 8.00 a yard. thats 2 dollars cheaper than online without shipping... and i can get marine ply for 75 or 65 for 3/4 and 1/2 or mdo for 56 or 44 for 3/4 and 1/2. everywhere i look online its more expensive for everything, then u have to pay shipping!!!! so this has me very happy

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Great Prices Man!!! That attachment is sold by HarborFreight. Go take a look


Safety Guard for Angle Grinders

Item #45921



Only:$6.49

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

managed to remove the cap today with my brother after finding a couple hidden screws that kept us from getting it off. with the cap off we also removed all the floor except one good piece upfront, and all of the foam out of the boat. of which every section that had foam in it was water logged, or i should say ice logged. also removed all the rotted wood. i managed to salvage a few parts that had good edges to use as a template, mainly bulkheads. im just going to post and scribe the stringers like oops did. although they are fairly flat and taper in the bow obviously. i also realized that the stringers are only 2 pieces bow to stern not 3. and the main stringer that runs to the motor bulkhead from the bow is 9ft. so im just going to use 1x8x12 for them instead of ply. doesnt make a whole lot of sense to seam only a 1 foot section in the bow thats only a few inches thick at most even if i dato'ed them or whatever. and it will save one money for ply as i will only need 1 sheet of 3/4 for the stringers now.

and only 2 sheets of 1/2 for the deck.

I bought chisels...very good purchase, helped in removing wood below the 41/2 grinder cut. i may leave the existing glass where its good but only to the top of the fillet, and to use it as a guide. if its bad ill remove it. everything else will be prepped. the glass job is good. just pour on the capping of the bulkheads toward the bow.

I may only use CSM as well as the boat was originally constructed that way, and only a few side bulkheads were capped/wrapped. everything else was not. so i figure if i just CSM wrap everything it will be plenty strong enough.

all the foam finally gone

That one piece of dark wood was the entire reason why i removed the floor, and would need to move the cap to check how bad it was....not knowing how bad everything else was. that piece thats all the way in the bow is good its yellow and solid on all sides. im leaving it there for now, it has to help support the hull from shifting along with the transom on a bunk trailer. ill most like end up removing it anyways.

doesnt look so big without the cap on it. This stuff seams pretty easy. thats my brother(21)

 

[fat fanny]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

Man you 2 really made allot of progress. Looks good and great work!!!!!

 

[Rellik546]

Re: Restoration: 1988 Wellcraft 170 Classic 3.0l Mercruiser Alpha 1 gen 1

thanks!!! 2 people makes it go 3 times as fast. twice as fast with labor and 4 times as fast with ideas/engineering.

spent about 5 hours in her today. still trying to contemplate what the best/cheapest way to remove the motor from boat. do you think a 4x4 structure 2 legs and a top with a winch/chain pully thing (comealong?) not sure what they are called. but do u think 4x4s braced with 2x4s for support so it wont tip over would be strong enough to hold the 3.0l mercruiser? or should i use bigger timber. 6x6 or bigger? i feel the 4x4 should be able to support the 400+ pounds. i would triangle brace the legs to the top with 4x4 and each leg would have a forward and back brace, and a brace on the side going away from the boat on each side