Repairing brake system on trailer

[LVNeptune]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

I just grabbed a $30 Skil angle grinder from Walmart. Too late to test it tonight unfortunately. I went out to the trailer and pulled the tongue off. It was being held in by two grade 307a (grade 1) bolts....Grade...1...bolts....

The threads that made contact with the edge of the tongue were crushed in. I feel like these things could have snapped at any moment. I read on the actuator kits to use grade 5 bolts or higher just to hold that on. I am quite sure the tongue should have the same grade bolts. That's insane.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

I just grabbed a $30 Skill angle grinder from Walmart. Too late to test it tonight unfortunately. I went out to the trailer and pulled the tongue off. It was being held in by two grade 307a (grade 1) bolts....Grade...1...bolts....

The threads that made contact with the edge of the tongue were crushed in. I feel like these things could have snapped at any moment. I read on the actuator kits to use grade 5 bolts or higher just to hold that on. I am quite sure the tongue should have the same grade bolts. That's insane.

Grade#5 are certainly better than Grade#1.
The tongue is not an ultra stressed area of the trailer.
It only has a few hundred pound of bending force from the ball weight.
The pulling force is whatever the truck can muster. (~1000lbs?)
The braking force is whatever is required to actuate the coupler. (~300lbs? Assuming the brakes work!)

The old Grade#1 bolts have been doing the job since 1989.
Upgrade them to Grade#5; You will sleep better.
But the the old Grade#1 bolts were not "Seconds from Disaster."

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

The braking force is whatever is required to actuate the coupler. (~300lbs? Assuming the brakes work!)

If the brakes work, this is actually very low..in the 10s of pounds. Its when the brakes don't work that this is high.

 

[LVNeptune]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

The trailer for at minimum of 3 years has not had working brakes.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

You will notice a world of difference when they are working. The brakes are stopping the entire trailer which is why you really want them on all 4 wheels. A previous statement that they don't really do much is completely false. They do engage every time you stop.

 

[LVNeptune]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

We'll see how this goes and maybe in a few weeks/months I will get another brake kit.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

You will notice a world of difference when they are working. The brakes are stopping the entire trailer which is why you really want them on all 4 wheels. A previous statement that they don't really do much is completely false. They do engage every time you stop.

You do not need brakes on all 4 wheels on a 21ft boat. With one of my other boats, a 21ft Chap, I never had brakes, then I installed Kodiacs, and spent all the money on the best brakes I could find. I didnt feel one bit of differance in stopping, either in panic or in normal day to day driving. I thought something was wrong so I took it to 2 other trailer places(other than the one that charged me out the ***** to put them on) and they all said they were working properly. Which is another reason I didnt go with the expensive brakes this time, nor did I do all 4 wheels. I couldnt justify $1500-$2000 for something that barely does anything. Go talk to a bunch of trailer shops, like I did, and they will tell you with your boat and trailer, you do not need brakes on all 4. When I told them what I had done on that other boat they all laughed at me.

Under normal braking I feel absolutely NO differance on my current setup. I can feel them engage under a panic type stop. Are they working all the time? I am sure they are, but in reality, I feel no differance. Again, I took them to a trailer shop, thinking I had not gotten them bled enough, or something else, and they checked and tested it and said they are working perfectly.

Now when I move it from the front of the house to the rear of the house with the Jeep, I feel them engage every time I stop. I think a lot of it just comes down to having a proper tow vehicle for yuour weight too.

 

[LVNeptune]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

Just to confirm you are saying you notice no difference with brakes on all wheel versus 2 wheels and not saying it feels the same as it did before you put the brakes on, aye?

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

Just to confirm you are saying you notice no difference with brakes on all wheel versus 2 wheels and not saying it feels the same as it did before you put the brakes on, aye?

Well, I am exagerating a bit. Under normal driving, yes, I felt just about NO differance. Panic, or hard braking, they were working as they are supposed to. I felt them pull back there. Of course when I had 4 brakes on that trailer I was towing with a 3/4 ton Suburban 4x4, so that may have played a part. If you were towing something bigger, I would be all about 4 brakes, but your boat doesnt really need them.

Many years ago, I used to tow trailers all the time without brakes. If we only knew back them what we know now. I am sure my parents would have never let us play in the back of the van, and made us sit in seats with belts on, but nobody knew any better in those days. Do you need brakes, absolutely, do you need to go ridiculous, I dont think so. Hell, most people driving around in cars with drum brakes havent had 4 brakes on their cars or trucks for years. Most people have never adjusted those rear brakes. We dont want to be unsafe, but there is a point where it just becomes redundant.

To each their own. There is nothing wrong with being overly cautious. Hell, I put a WD hitch on my truck, even though most people told me I was nuts. I have transom straps on my boat, and I have 3 bow straps, and a large strap over the rear gunwales on my boat. I rarely see anyone even with transom straps on their boats around here. I have a buddy that I give crap to all the time. He has no brakes on his trailer, he has absolutely NO straps holding the boat on the trailer, and he has a hitch that is rated for 3000# towing a 31ft Caravelle. I forced him to let me check his rear brakes on his truck and they were so far out of adjustment that there is no way they were working. So he is towing all of that with just front brakes. So you are probably better off than about 80% of the people out there towing boats, just having brakes on your trailer.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

But as I said, when I tow the boat to the back of my house, on about a 1/3 mile drive through the neigborhood, with my Jeep, every single time I touch the brakes, the trailer brakes work and I feel them kicking in. I have to get them to kick in or the boat would push me all over.

So maybe they are working back there, but my tow vehicle is heavy enough that it absorbs the feeling. I dont know. I am just giving you my experiance. Obviously if you go with 4 wheels you will be extra safe.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

if they are working correctly you will never feel them pull. If you are feeling them pull, your coupler is binding.

The way they work is that as you slow down, the trailer pushes into the coupler applying the master cylinder which supplys pressure to the brakes. If the brakes work properly, the maximum amount of pressure the trailer pushes into the coupler is the pressure to apply the master cylinder...that's it. Its basically a closed loop system and the pressure applied to the master cylinder is somewhat self regulating based on the load.

So maybe they are working back there, but my tow vehicle is heavy enough that it absorbs the feeling. I dont know. I am just giving you my experiance. Obviously if you go with 4 wheels you will be extra safe.

All you should feel is the pressure that is being applied to the master cylinder which is the equivalent pressure of your foot on the brake pedal of you car...that's all. The only time you will feel your vehicle pushed is when the brakes of your trailer exceed the maximum braking force that they are able to provide. If that is the case, you need another set of brakes on the other axle.

I didnt feel one bit of differance in stopping, either in panic or in normal day to day driving.

If both systems were working correctly, there would be no difference. If one brake system was more efficient than the other, the only difference you would feel was the extra force being applied to the master cylinder which may only be a few pounds different.

I have to get them to kick in or the boat would push me all over.

If this is the case, your brakes aren't working properly. There is some lag because you do have the damper in the coupler, but it is minimal.

My 1988 20.5' Bayliner came with brakes on all 4 wheels. My current 24' boat came with brakes on one axle and I added brakes to the other axle. The only reason that brakes are put on one axle of a trailer is that the boat dealer selling you the boat is trying to save money. The law in many states requires you to have brakes on all axles over a certain weight.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

Hell, I put a WD hitch on my truck, even though most people told me I was nuts.

Actually, that may be the reason your brakes aren't working properly. Certain WD hitches don't do well with surge brakes becuase the equilizing bars are preventing the trailer pushing into the coupler. The WD equilizing bars with chains are the worst. With my current truck, I need a WD hitch so I switched from surge to elec/hydraulic.

Definitely can't use a sway control with surge brakes if you happen to be using one.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

Well that sort of reinforced my point that with the proper tow vehicle you really do not need 4 brakes on that size of boat. If I was towing(completely illegal and unsafe to do so)with my Jeep, I would definately need 4 brakes. As it stands there is no need.

Incidently, I just bought a complete Tie Down brake system(actually it says Towzone on teh box), brand new in a box, off Craigslist for $50. It is just the axle parts, no actuator or the other bits, but it has the calipers, discs, bearings, brackets and brake lines. So now I have spares when mine starts acting up. Honestly, for what I have invested in this system, I will be happy to get a year out of it, and I am more than half way there already, and it still works flawlessly.

Trust me, I looked at the Kodiacs. I just couldnt justify the expense at the time. I had a lot of other expenses going on at the time. I figured some brakes are better than none at all. Plus, as the OP mentioned, most of the reviews were good on these and I got them super cheap.

 

[LVNeptune]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

What is a WD hitch?

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

Actually, that may be the reason your brakes aren't working properly. Certain WD hitches don't do well with surge brakes becuase the equilizing bars are preventing the trailer pushing into the coupler. The WD equilizing bars with chains are the worst. With my current truck, I need a WD hitch so I switched from surge to elec/hydraulic.

Definitely can't use a sawy control with surge brakes.

No, I put the brakes on long before I put the WD hitch on, and I only use the WD hitch bars when I am going to be on the highway, or a longer trip.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

What is a WD hitch?

Weight Distribution. I found that my hitch was bent and I wanted something more substantial so it didnt happen again. I found a $600 unit on CL for $75. We are taking a 8 hour trip this summer and I felt it would be better to be safe than sorry.

 

[LVNeptune]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

How are you finding all these deals? We have nothing like that over here. You could make a killing just buying the crap to resell.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

My job allows me to do a lot of surfing. I sit around waiting a lot for software to load and for contractors to do their jobs, so I have a lot of time to just look for junk. I have more junk sitting in my garage than I think I can ever use. I do buy more than I need, then it typically sits around til I realize I will never use it, and I resell it.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

I bought my Kodiacs on ebay as well. I think I paid around $250 for all 4. I also bought 2 spare but after 5 years I am still on my first set.

 

[mnypitboat]

Re: Repairing brake system on trailer

I bought my Kodiacs on ebay as well. I think I paid around $250 for all 4. I also bought 2 spare but after 5 years I am still on my first set.

Yeah, but did you already have the actuator/master cylinder and all the rest of the stuff? I had drum brakes before and the master cylinder is differant, and I had no release solenoid and my brake lines were rusted to the ends.

That is a great price either way. Like I said, I am always looking. If I find a deal like that i will snag it up and replace mine when they start acting up.