No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

[Dunaruna]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

It amazes me that people still question whether WMDs still exist, he's used them!!!!! Thousands killed by chemical weapons IN HIS OWN COUNTRY. Is it so hard to imagine that he's hidden them in a sympathising country.<br /><br />America took the first big hit, but it wont stop there, the terorists dont care what your country of birth is, or your skin color, or your religion, or your political views. They have struck in America, Spain, Indonesia (the largest muslim country in the world with an, arguably, sypathising leader), Saudi Arabia, Italy and countless other areas where bombs have either failed or foiled. <br /><br />I personally dont care what the spin doctors tell us about "why" we are at war, history is all to clear that dictators & extremists dont stop until they are made to stop. If it wasnt for the allies, and America was the main force, we would all be speaking Japanese or German now. A over used saying - but true. IMHO. Aldo

 

[JoeW]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

To those who criticise our action in Iraq, I ask you this: What would you have done? Ask for another U.N. resolution? Should we have tried to negotiate with Saddam? Should we have lifted our sactions, or strengthen them? Should we have done nothing? <br /><br />I don't think you quite understand. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan (insert your 3rd world Islamic nation here) do not play this game on our terms. By "our" terms I mean western "civilized" nations. (yes I said civilized) They never will. This is not a matter of asking them more nicely to allow weapons inspections. They know and respect only power and courage. Unfortunately, negotiations are for the weak, and that's just how they see us right now, Weak. <br /><br />No WMD found in Iraq? Oh well! Does it really matter? Do you really have any doubt that Saddam would have given aide and comfort to anyone even closely resembling a member of Al Queda? If you do, you ought to take off those rose colored glasses and stop smokin the crack! This is exactly the type of reaction that Al Queda is hoping for. <br /><br />Did anyone think this would be easy? Based on what supposition? Bush told us it would be hard and that's exaxtly what he meant. Would it cost American lives? Of course. My son is 15 now. The thought of loosing him to a group of ignorant thugs makes me sick, but not as sick as asking him to live in a world that permits such thugs to live and prosper. <br /><br />To what degree should we exercise our first amendement right to oppose this action? Protests, rallys, articles etc protesting the action in Iraq would normally be, in democratic society such as ours, a healthy thing. It's healthy when it's used to persuade public opinion. But when it's used to weaken resolve or give aid the the enemy, it's called sedition.

 

[Hooty]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

"Grab 'em by the huevos. Their hearts and minds will follow."<br /><br />c/6<br />Hooty

 

[oddjob]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

Great post Joe!

 

[Bondo]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

The terrorists are sittin back lovin this i'm sure.

Yep,<br />Osama is Hoping,+ Praying the Dummycrats Win.......<br /><br />Then He can Go about His Business,<br />Without Fear of Retrebution...........<br /><br />Don't Forget, We had Osama in our Sights,<br />And, Slick Willy REFUSED to Pull the Trigger..................................

 

[plywoody]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

Phil,<br /><br />While I do understand what you are saying, and it is puzzling why Blair was so much behind this war from the start, still it is well documented that Bush, and mostly his neoconservative advisors (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, and others) had their sights set on Iraq from the moment they took office.<br /><br />They even published a policy paper in the late 90's that suggested Iraq must be the next target (It is long (125 pages in pdf format) but it was available on the net) In it, they mentioned that in order to take out Iraq, they felt they needed some sort of *Pearl Harbor event* in order to 'sell' it. (Read 9/11 as the Pearl Harbor event)<br /><br />Who knows what the precise reason was for it, whether it was retribution for the assassination attempt on Bush 1 ---or to finish the job they felt Bush I left unfinished--or some naive grand scheme to introduce democracy into the region and get the rest of the middle east to see the error of their ways, and all go to democracy--Who knows? It could be one of these, or a combination, or some other unstated reason (Oil?) or a combination of all of them. Who knows? <br />It is reasonably clear that it is not the reason originally stated at the start of the war, that it has nothing to do with the war on terrorism, or 9/11.<br />It is also reasonably clear that the planning that went on for this war, and especially the aftermath of this war, was woefully inadequate and flawed.<br />Why Blair went along with it so easily is hard to understand, and what his motives were are harder yet to understand, but I feel pretty secure in the notion that he was not the one leading us on in this fiasco.<br /><br />Oh, and I pledge allegiance to the United States of America---and not to "the current government of the United States of America"<br /><br />When I see something wrong with what the government is doing, it is absolutely my patriotic duty to point it out as loudly and as clearly as I possibly can. To do anything less would be absolutely unpatriotic. That is what democracy, and freedom, is all about.

 

[plywoody]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

Phil,<br /><br />While I do understand what you are saying, and it is puzzling why Blair was so much behind this war from the start, still it is well documented that Bush, and mostly his neoconservative advisors (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, and others) had their sights set on Iraq from the moment they took office.<br /><br />They even published a policy paper in the late 90's that suggested Iraq must be the next target (It is long (125 pages in pdf format) but it was available on the net) In it, they mentioned that in order to take out Iraq, they felt they needed some sort of *Pearl Harbor event* in order to 'sell' it. (Read 9/11 as the Pearl Harbor event)<br /><br />Who knows what the precise reason was for it, whether it was retribution for the assassination attempt on Bush 1 ---or to finish the job they felt Bush I left unfinished--or some naive grand scheme to introduce democracy into the region and get the rest of the middle east to see the error of their ways, and all go to democracy--Who knows? It could be one of these, or a combination, or some other unstated reason (Oil?) or a combination of all of them. Who knows? <br />It is reasonably clear that it is not the reason originally stated at the start of the war, that it has nothing to do with the war on terrorism, or 9/11.<br />It is also reasonably clear that the planning that went on for this war, and especially the aftermath of this war, was woefully inadequate and flawed.<br />Why Blair went along with it so easily is hard to understand, and what his motives were are harder yet to understand, but I feel pretty secure in the notion that he was not the one leading us on in this fiasco.<br /><br />Oh, and I pledge allegiance to the United States of America---and not to "the current government of the United States of America"<br /><br />When I see something wrong with what the government is doing, it is absolutely my patriotic duty to point it out as loudly and as clearly as I possibly can. To do anything less would be absolutely unpatriotic. That is what democracy, and freedom, is all about.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

oh no, plywoody is ganging up on us. He's cloned himself for reinforcements.

 

[ob]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

PW,you don't have enough information to critique what you don't understand.You said yourself that you can't understand why BLair was supporting the effort from the getgo.Maybe he knows things that you don't.I seem to notice a few.

 

[WoodRust]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

Originally posted by Boomyal:<br />This is a war against Western Civilization, of which Woodrust is a part of. He would have us lay down and give up, or maybe he just thinks that if we are real nice they will leave us alone.

I said: This is a not war It's a way of life for islamics. These people don't go away!! After they send your family, your friends, your nephews, nieces & cousins home in 'boxes' - It's your turn! <br /><br />I mis-explained or you mis-understood me.<br /><br />Lay down 'arms'? Not me!!!! But It's too late. There is no end!!! We are not fighting against a foreign country. We're in a war against a religion!! A world-wide religion that is based on hate. Suicide is heaven if you kill. <br /><br />I lived & worked in Ireland in the late '70s & early '80s it was much different. 'There' killing yourself to kill was 'anti'-go directly to 'hell'. Driving by an abandoned car on the 'free-ways' was scarey @ times'. <br /><br />These people believe the opposite!. ->Go to Heaven. *They* will drive your streets in rush hour, wait for a traffic jam, pull up next to a school bus, 'smile @ the kids & pull the pin' with themselves in the car!<br /><br />How do you defend against this? Buy a gun? Nuke Iraq, Nuke Iran, Nuke...

 

[JoeW]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

plywoody said...Oh, and I pledge allegiance to the United States of America---and not to "the current government of the United States of America"<br />

the current government of the U.S.A <br /><br />The United States of America has had exactly one government since its inception. If you are not pledging allegiance to that government, with what, exactly, do you believe yourself to be allied? The government of the United States of America, a government of and by the people of the United State of America, is what defines this country.

 

[JoeW]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

Plywoody said... It is reasonably clear ..., that it has nothing to do with the war on terrorism, or 9/11

Reasonably clear to whom? It certainly is not reasonably clear to me, nor have I heard one plausible explaination to justify this statement.<br /><br />So we didn't find WMD, so what? Do you honestly doubt that Iraq was not a threat to western civilization? Iraq's government was in open defiance of world peace. I ask again, what should we have done about this? <br /><br />This is all just anti-Bush rhetoric. The Demos were against this plan from the onset, even before we got into Iraq. Why? Because it was a Bush plan. I'm pleased to know that our government had a plan to deal with Iraq. I hope they've got one to deal with North Korea as well.

 

[WoodRust]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

I feel sorry for you joew94th if your last 2 posts are the best you have.<br /><br />You clearly have no understanding of the real world! Wave the flag.

 

[oddjob]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

still it is well documented that Bush, and mostly his neoconservative advisors (Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, and others) had their sights set on Iraq from the moment they took office.<br />

Hey Shurloch, 1996 Clinton, the UN and Congress first laid out and backed the plan. I posted a link to the public Doc. a while ago. Nice try , false lie ....I am certain....Public record which you spout prooves it. But I know it does'nt phase your anti American resolve... <br /><br />Bush and his cronies? just taking the hand off....whaawwwwwww!

 

[12Footer]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

Or the current protests in Iraq?<br /><br />This was not the dancing in the streets that Cheney had envisioned, I think.<br /><br />And we are going to turn over control of this country in 90 days? To whom, I wonder?<br /><br />What a mess! And all too predictable, sad to say.<br /><br />And Bin Laden's primary terrorist recruiting tool was the fact that the US was maintaining a military presence in Saudi Arabia, with the notion that the US wanted to invade and occupy some oil rich Middle Eastern country.<br /><br />So much for progress on the war on terror.<br /><br />Sad to say, I am not particularly happy about it, but the results we are seeing were all too predictable--with any sort of solution becoming more and more impossible, as peace between the Palestinians and Israelis is.

 

[Bored To Tears]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

I dont have a cultured world view unlike some on these boards, and I certainly dont know enough to second guess the collective minds of government. Bush is our President, but what is he really? A puppet of congress, a talking head that takes the heat of failure alone and shares the glory of success with the rest of the allies. <br /><br />That is merely an observation, and not the point of this post<br /><br />when the towers fell, when terrorists brought death raining down from the sky, killing hundreds of people in planes to kill THOUSANDS of people on the ground, striking at the symbolic heart of America with the attacks on the towers, the symbolic heart of intelligence via attacking the Pentagon, and God knows where the flight downed in Pennsylvania was destined to strike ... Capitol? White House? Who knows, but when all that happened, this was known - <br />This was the work of Al Queda, not Iraq.<br /><br />HOWEVER<br /><br />Iraq, and that bloodthirsty maniac Saddam, made no secret about giving safe harbor to Scum Laden and his rag wrapped minions<br /><br />The invasion was to right a wrong (the US put Saddam in power in the first place) and to say to the rest of the fleabag nations, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU SANCTION TERRORISM<br /><br />Vietnam was intended to be a war of attrition that turned into a politcal pizzin contest between Us and Them<br /><br />Bring that same war of attrition, annihilation by fire, by bombs, by whatever means neccessary, to the scum that understand ONE thing, TERROR<br /><br />Feed them fear and death by the cubic mile, you dont kill a snake by chopping off its rattle, you chop the head off and burn it, KILL THE SCUMBAGS<br /><br />When they realize there is no safe corner on earth FOR THEM TO HIDE, they will be neutralized<br /><br />"To cleanse a savage earth, you must use a savage fire"<br /><br />stop playing by the rules, use THEIR rules, with our overwhelmingly superior firepower and resources, (and the use of slimeball sleazy tactics a la al queda) this thing would be over within a year<br /><br />otherwise, get out, dont let our boys and girls march around like targets in a shooting arcade<br /><br />

 

[grant1973]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

It would be interesting if we could bring back our fore-fathers, the founders of this courty, all the ones that fought and died to have a country that we call home, The United States of America. I think that for them to see where this country has wound up today would break their hearts. All of the constant criticism of our President is useless. Everyone is entitled to their opinion---> freedom of speech <--- but when things have to get down and dirty and war is the answer...then damn it! Buck up and support the cause. Do your part in some way big or small. Protesting is not support. Sitting back and letting horrors such as 9/11 happen is NOT the answer as some seem to think. It is time that we stop being such liberal wieners and fight. Fight before it is too late and our enemies have the power that they seek.<br />And hey, if ya don't like your president that is fine but for the sake of our troops and the future of freedom and this country, ride it out and be sure to vote for your guy. I did mine.

 

[samagee]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

Iraq was playing games with us and the world. They should have been in the middle of the dart board! Why the stalling now? I have no idea. All this politically correct BS is getting more killed than should be.<br /><br />Afghanistan needs to be fortified by the U.S. and prepare for trouble from Iran mostly. It has been stated by Iran recently that they have, and will continue to move things to and from Iraq. Wonder where those WMDs went? Take a stroll into Iran. They are probably just over the boarder.<br /><br />Give Iraq to the Iraqi's and NEVER offer another helping hand. Just send missles and bullets as needed, until they decide enough is eough.<br /><br />Put strategic anti missle systems in Afghanistan watching Iran, Iraq, China, North Korea, and North Vietnam. Seal the Afghan boarders air tight with limited and watched passage to Pakistan.<br /><br />Personally I feel we should just annex Iraq and Afghanistan. However, I think relistically we should only keep one on the plate right now. Stick with Afghanistan for now and just keep Iraq under the boot until they decide to play nice.<br /><br />Iran really needs the boot to their tail right now as well. They are ticked off about what has transpired in the past, and there is no avoiding the issue. We might as well fight it out now, before they can launch nukes. All those American citizens that want to burry their heads in the sand might as well leave now. I hear pot smoking is legal in Canada. Move there and have good time re-living the 60's, while un-knowingly helping the communist cause.<br /><br />And just so those from Canada know. I have no interest in hearing anything from Canada. Learn to seal your boarders, and then maybe you can criticize others.<br /><br />This of course is my humble thoughts for the day.

 

[Raghauler]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

You won't find a stronger supporter of our Constitution beyond me, but we need to keep something in focus here. When in times of war, our right to free speech has historically been muted to some effect, that is, until the Vietnam War. For the liberal Democrats of this board, please review your history. Franklin Delano Roosevelt (D) instituted a censorship of the media during World War II unlike anything this country saw before or since, in an effort to control damage against the United States. While we did a few things wrong (like locking up American citizens of Japanese descent), we obviously got it right. Since then, we let the media say what they want, and things haven't gone so well (Vietnam). The only operation that went off to plan since WWII was the first Iraqi War... partly because of controlling the media. The media cried foul, and we tried better to allow them into this war. Big mistake, as we overestimated their ability to provide "balanced" reporting. Major media failed the US because of their own agenda, and our enemies are capitalizing on it. Bush haters here jump on the bandwagon, and American men and women are in peril, dying daily. Like it or not, voicing the enemies objectives is helping them to that end.<br /><br />We cannot and should not run away now. I have a young son, so make no mistake about my personal involvement if wars like this continue.<br /><br />My opinion, no flames intended, but sleep in your own bed. When you do, think about the beds of our comrades in that God-forsaken hellhole that is obviously better off without Sa-damn. It doesn't matter if you did not agree with the war in the beginning, it DOES matter if you do not back our troops now. Help make their job easier by joining the resolve of this country. Stop spreading our enemy’s message.

 

[Fly Rod]

Re: No one wants to discuss Fallujah?

" VERY! VERY!!Well said Raghauler!!!!"