NEWSWEAK

Skinnywater

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Re: NEWSWEAK

KABUL (Reuters) - Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan were skeptical Monday about an apparent retraction by Newsweek magazine of a report that U.S. interrogators desecrated the Koran and said U.S. pressure was behind the climb-down. <br /><br />The report in Newsweek's May 9 issue sparked protests across the Muslim world from Afghanistan, where 16 were killed and more than 100 injured, to Pakistan, India, Indonesia and Gaza.Newsweek said Sunday the report might not be true.<br />"We will not be deceived by this," Islamic cleric Mullah Sadullah Abu Aman told Reuters in the northern Afghan province of Badakhshan, referring to the magazine's retraction.<br />"This is a decision by America to save itself. It comes because of American pressure. Even an ordinary illiterate peasant understands this and won't accept it."<br />Aman was the leader of a group of clerics who Sunday vowed to call for a holy war against the United States in three days unless it handed over the military interrogators reported to have desecrated the Koran.<br />That call for a jihad, or holy war, still stood, he said.
Equally important is to verify this story.<br />And rather than "react" to the known enemy six months or a year from now, we'd be better off to be "proactive" in lighting their hineys up now.<br />This "leader of clerics,Mullah Sadullah Abu Aman" is as reported asking for a fight. <br /> We'd be much, much more respected in the entire region turning him and his followers into wormdirt...... muy pronto.<br /><br />Oh, and you notice when the action, players and otherwise, detainees are Afgani's, not Iraqi's,<br />PW2 still has a bone to pick? <br /> :D :D The most liberal Republican party ever and yet the most hated by the liberals.... :D :D ...kinder grander ghost.... :D
 

jtexas

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Re: NEWSWEAK

Originally posted by Ralph:<br /> Well PW, you have to take the rioters word for it. Or, you could take the time to read the Evan Thomas story I posted above from Newsweek. Here, let me make it easy for you:<br /><br />
<br />But to Muslims, defacing the Holy Book is especially heinous. "We can understand torturing prisoners, no matter how repulsive," says computer teacher Muhammad Archad, interviewed last week by NEWSWEEK in Peshawar, Pakistan, where one of last week's protests took place. "But insulting the Qur'an is like deliberately torturing all Muslims. This we cannot tolerate."
Let me guess PW, it was all Karl Rove! He flew over there and started the riots to make Newsweek look bad. It's all a big conspiracy...
I take your point, Ralph. You can call me a cynic, but I believe terrorists have propaganda, too.<br /><br />Middle Eastern leaders will use whatever sound bites are available to further their cause, just like any western politician worth his salt.<br /><br />Do you really think they are saying to themselves, "hey, they tore up our book, when all we did was crash a few planes into a few buildings. We gotta have a riot about that right now!"<br /><br />This is a hard culture to understand, where beheading your prisoners is accepted, but photographing their buttocks is considered an atrocity. It's like a bad SNL skit.
 

PW2

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Re: NEWSWEAK

JB,<br /><br />You will notice that I made no value judgements on the actions of the Americans...but only that they appear to have happened...<br /><br />And the charge has been made that somehow Newsweek magazine is responsible for our strained relations with the Arab world.<br /><br />Even the pentagon's joint chiefs don't agree with that--it is only the administration that is saying that...but... <br /><br />Do whatever you want to do--cut off their heads-nuke them-whatever you think will be effective--but take responibility for your choices, and don't come up with lame accusations against a news magazine that reports it.
 

JB

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Re: NEWSWEAK

I have not accused NEWSWEEK of anything, PW2.<br /><br />I reluctantly accept the idea that the modern journalist's objective is to cause as much scandal and uproar as possible, but to tell it right, even if you only tell the part of it that will send some people into orbit.<br /><br />It seems that they got part of that wrong.
 

12Footer

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Re: NEWSWEAK

Originally posted by JB:<br /> <br /> ----even if you only tell the part of it that will send some people into orbit<br />It seems that they got part of that wrong.
Just a tad.<br />Ya know, if it wern't for the death, destruction, loss of morale and demoralization of the civilian population overseas, this fictional account from Newsweak would be laughed-off as just more anti-US US propaganda.<br />The whole thing reminds of an old arguiment I had with my son, way back when he was a little sprout. I was trying to explain that a news report was bogus. His reply is has become an oft-repeated family joke ever since. He said, "But dad, it was in the paper. They wouldn't put it there if it wasn't true"!
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: NEWSWEAK

I reluctantly accept the idea that the modern journalist's objective is to cause as much scandal and uproar as possible, but to tell it right, even if you only tell the part of it that will send some people into orbit.<br />
JB, accept it, reluctantly or not, that is PRECISELY their agenda.
 

jtexas

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Re: NEWSWEAK

Scandal and uproar is a strategy, no, it's a tactic. The ultimate objective of any Business Enterprise is to maximize the value of the company to the shareholders.<br /><br />Here is how the Business Enterprise of Media gets a collection of diverse individuals to pursue the same objective: <br />Each reporter goes for scandal & uproar because <br />that's what the editors reward, because<br />that's what the executives reward,<br />because that's what the stock market rewards,<br />because that's what the "consumers" of the news reward.<br /><br />Hey, it's just a theory, but it's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
 

PW2

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Re: NEWSWEAK

That's just plain baloney, JB.<br /><br />Sure there are propaganda rags out there, on both sides of the spectrum, that will stop at nothing, to the point of fabrication to report on anything that reflects poorly on the opposition.<br /><br />Newsweek may have made an error, in not fully checking and confirming their story. They did use an "unnamed government official" as a source, and I hope they name him. "unnamed government officials" have been consistently used to leak all manner of stories. It is done all the time.<br /><br /><br />I doubt seriously if Michael Isikoff would put his credibility and his multi decade career on the line for a 9 line story that was virtually ignored for two weeks before anyone even noticed it, on a whim to embarass the administration.<br /><br />Did it cause the Arab world to all of a sudden not like us anymore? You can't really believe that, can you?<br /><br />Could it have been in error? Sure
 

Ralph 123

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Re: NEWSWEAK

What do you call a person who knowingly reports something he knows will put his countryman's lives at risk during a time of war?<br /><br />Isikoff now says he did nothing wrong. I wonder if the dead and wounded think he is right?
 
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DJ

Guest
Re: NEWSWEAK

I doubt seriously if Michael Isikoff would put his credibility and his multi decade career on the line for a 9 line story that was virtually ignored for two weeks before anyone even noticed it, on a whim to embarass the administration.<br />
Put his career on the line? How? He, in his circle, is a hero.
 

Skinnywater

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Re: NEWSWEAK

What do you call a person who knowingly reports something he knows will put his countryman's lives at risk during a time of war?<br />
Well that would be a traitor.<br /><br />It would be sedition if was done to stir up a rebellion against the government. <br /><br />You have to really wonder about a person that is always defending Clinton, the ACLU, traitors/sedtionists. A perfect blind date for Michael Moore. :D
 

OLDSPUD

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Re: NEWSWEAK

From an accused loathing, playbook reading, lock step, numbed, what was it? (oh well it doesn't matter), lets just say republican spewing idiot.<br />JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE<br /><br />OK, yes, I hade to duck out for a while so I could think and read, and I was overboard on the point of hatred. <br /><br />But never-the-less, the press will go after anything true (which they do and should) or rumored to be true, which was my point, to show bad light on the Bush admin. <br /><br />Lets look back a touch.<br /><br />Since '92, you guys have lost the House, Senate, and so on. Your boy Clinton, seems to have started the decline. Back then, I was a political junkie. I watched and read everything I could. I was quite impressed with his ability to work everyone, and he didn't accomplish a lot, period, good or bad. (Actually I was and am more nervious about Hillary.)<br /><br />The impeachment was stupid, because it was lying about sex, which any good cheater would do. And I thought there would be hell to pay for the repubs.<br /><br />But anyway, even today, the Clinton press and media is pretty favorable. Oh ya Leno makes fun of his Women problems, but that is about it. And it seems like they go nuts anytime they can run a positive story about him. To them, he is God.<br /><br />You would think the media would all over him because of the decline of the Democratic party.<br /><br />BUT MY POINT IS THAT THE DEMS AND THEIR PRESS BUDS hate the fact that their out of power, and the target is Bush, or any repub that stays the party line. Look at Delay, I'm not thrilled about what they came up with, but they also have found the same or worse with a couple other dems, but no scandal for them, just Tom.<br />The points I could make could go on and on.<br /><br />The fact that we are at war, and that knowing how the enemy in this war feels about the US, they hate are existence, how much hatered must there have been toward the Bush Admin, to ignore that fact and go with a story, that ended up killing people, and wasn't founded in fact that could be proven? My point and belief is that the hatred exists to the point of harming the US, and the mainstream media's own destruction, which is happening.<br /> <br />Sorry, my thoughts sound a little disjointed, but I'm not reading from the playbook tonight.<br /><br />Spud
 

jtexas

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Re: NEWSWEAK

The dems want power, republicans have it. Ten years ago it was the opposite. And thus will it ever be.<br /><br />Hey spud, you noticed the relationship between Clinton's rise to power and his unfavorable (albeit well deserved) press, then his fall from grace and favorable press, and Bush's rise to power and his own unfavorable press. A pattern? You betcha. Controversy sells. If The People like 'em, the press will hate 'em, and vice versa. The press will target everwho will sell the most magazines. <br /><br />Remember, the press is now Big Business and the only objective of Big Business is to maximize the value of the firm to its shareholders. Their only agenda: get Bigger. Their only enemy: the competition. <br /><br />Sure, on Any Given Sunday an individual might try to advance a personal political agenda, but there are very few who can do so and remain part of the Mainstream Media (example: Jim Lehrer). Others are relegated to obscure cable channels and the upper end of the AM spectrum (example: that guy who was in Nixon's cabinet, whatshisname. Another example: the fat guy who was so in love with Newt Gingrich, you remember, that drug addict, whatshisname).<br /><br />If America falls, so falls freedom of the press, and where will the Media be then? To believe that Newsweek Magazine is plotting the downfall of the U.S. Government borders on paranoia.<br /><br />Of course, if they're really out to get ya, it's not paranoia! ;) <br /><br />By the way, do you know who broke the Monica Lewinski scandal? That's right it was Michael Isikoff!
 

Ralph 123

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Re: NEWSWEAK

Yes it was Isikoff, but Newsweek killed the story until Drudge "outed" them. Funny they held that but rushed to print a negative story about our military at a time of war. No bias there huh?<br /><br /> http://www.drudgereport.com/ml.htm <br />
<br />Web Posted: 01/17/98 23:32:47 PST -- NEWSWEEK KILLS STORY ON WHITE HOUSE INTERN <br /><br />BLOCKBUSTER REPORT: 23-YEAR OLD, FORMER WHITE HOUSE INTERN, SEX RELATIONSHIP WITH PRESIDENT <br /><br />**World Exclusive**<br />**Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT** <br /><br />At the last minute, at 6 p.m. on Saturday evening, NEWSWEEK magazine killed a story that was destined to shake official Washington to its foundation: A White House intern carried on a sexual affair with the President of the United States! <br /><br />The DRUDGE REPORT has learned that reporter Michael Isikoff developed the story of his career, only to have it spiked by top NEWSWEEK suits hours before publication. A young woman, 23, sexually involved with the love of her life, the President of the United States, since she was a 21-year-old intern at the White House. She was a frequent visitor to a small study just off the Oval Office where she claims to have indulged the president's sexual preference. Reports of the relationship spread in White House quarters and she was moved to a job at the Pentagon, where she worked until last month...<br /><br />
I think it was Yogi who said, "You can see a lot by looking."<br /><br />If the MSM cared about economics, they would be more balanced. Look at any subscription figures for the MSM and what you'll find is a massive decline. Look at any poll about trust of the MSM and you'll see they have lost the confidence of an overwhelming majority of the public. This isn't about economics. This is about bias and ideology. Even the NYT is now admitting they have a big problem and need to take action. Google it an you'll find the report they commissioned along with the recommendations.<br /><br />[edit] here it is:<br /> http://www.timeswatch.org/twarticles/2005/20050509.asp
 

Ralph 123

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Re: NEWSWEAK

Koran Allegation May Long Resonate<br />Anger Over Reported Desecration Persists Despite Retraction<br /><br />By Kamran Khan and Pamela Constable<br />Washington Post Foreign Service<br />Wednesday, May 18, 2005; A01<br /><br /><br />KARACHI, Pakistan, May 17 -- In markets and tea shops, the news bulletin flashed from transistor radios in Arabic and Urdu, Dari and Pashto. In universities and business offices, it raced across the Internet. In mosques and religious schools, it was repeated from pulpits and loudspeakers.<br /><br />The report last week that U.S. military interrogators had desecrated the Koran has now been retracted by Newsweek magazine after five days of violent protests in Afghanistan that left 15 dead, peaceful protests in other Muslim countries and horrified reactions from governments across the Middle East. But the controversy has highlighted the extreme sensitivity of religious symbols, especially the Koran, to Muslims at a time when some feel their faith is under attack by the West and when their fervor is easily susceptible to manipulation.<br /><br />The torrent of anger over the Newsweek report was exploited by some religious and political groups, speeded by improved communications in the Muslim world and mingled with other sources of resentment against the United States. Rapidly improving technology played a role in spreading the allegation of Koran abuse to places it would not previously have penetrated -- even as recently as two years ago, when similar accounts from the U.S. military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, were first reported.<br /><br />Mosques and Islamic groups in Pakistan and Afghanistan are no longer cloistered from the world. Some have Web sites, their leaders have satellite phones and governments have urged them to use computers to modernize their teachings. Kabul, the war-torn Afghan capital, had no phone service for years, but there are now a dozen Internet cafes; one was the target of a suicide bomber on May 7.<br /><br />The anger unleashed by the story appears unlikely to subside quickly, said analysts and leaders in several countries.<br /><br />"The damage cannot be controlled by the belated retraction from Newsweek under U.S. government pressure," said Qazi Hussain Ahmad, leader of the major Islamic party alliance in Pakistan, who spoke by telephone from Islamabad. "The desecration of the Holy Koran by U.S. soldiers shows that the United States is on a path of clashing with Islam."<br /><br />Ahmad said that his alliance, the Muttahida Majlis Amal, was planning nationwide protests May 27 and that it had "coordinated with Islamic organizations all over the world to join us in this day of condemnation."<br /><br />Although reaction in Pakistan was relatively tame, the report that U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo flushed a copy of the Koran down a toilet has dominated political discourse. Parliament passed a resolution calling on the United States to punish those behind the alleged abuse. Gen. Pervez Musharraf, Pakistan's president and a key ally in the U.S. war on terrorism, urged the United States to "carry out a thorough investigation."<br /><br />"Koranic desecration is an emotional and combustible issue, which historically has had great public resonance," said Rifaat Hussain, a scholar of security studies in Islamabad. "In the current polarized climate . . . with the Abu Ghraib incidents and the mindset that the Bush administration is capable of doing anything, it is easy for anti-U.S. forces to join hands with extremists to whip up a popular frenzy."<br /><br />In Afghanistan, where reaction was the most severe, religious and political activists said crowds were easily goaded to violence because of other festering grudges, including complaints of prisoners being abused and civilians killed in U.S. military actions since late 2001. In four days of protests in a half-dozen locations, at least 15 people died in clashes with police, mostly from bullet wounds.<br /><br />The protests were also fueled by the antipathy of some groups toward the government of President Hamid Karzai, which is closely allied with the Bush administration. In the view of some, the government has allowed vulgarity to creep into public life in a conservative Muslim society. Karzai is due to visit Washington later this month.<br /><br />"People are full of resentment and this was their chance to show it," said Hafiz Mansour, a conservative Muslim intellectual, who spoke by telephone from Kabul. "Afghans do not forget the past; they still remember the bombing of the wedding party," he said, referring to a U.S. air assault on a village in 2002. "Our constitution says Islam should be respected, but in our capital, people are drinking liquor and half-naked girls are dancing on TV."<br /><br />Karzai and his aides have said the controversy was deliberately inflamed by "enemies of the government," who include the revived radical Islamic Taliban militia and other former militia factions from several ethnic groups that have hostile relations with Karzai.<br /><br />"The opposition exploited this opportunity to damage the name of Karzai," said Sayed Amin Mujahid, a political activist and scholar in Kabul. "They are against him allowing American military bases here, so they used the [Koran] issue as an excuse to cause violence and make him look weak."<br /><br />The reports of Koranic vandalism also reached other Muslim regions, sparking smaller demonstrations in Indonesia and in the Palestinian territories. Analysts in both places said Tuesday that even if relatively few people took to the streets, the allegation had a powerful negative impact.<br /><br />"The holy book is the word of God, and when the soldiers in Guantanamo did this act . . . it was a provocation for every Muslim," said Adnan Husseini, director of the Islamic Trust in East Jerusalem, which oversees Muslim holy places. "We don't expect this from a civilized country," he added. "This adds another difficult factor before people who believe there is a war against Islam."<br /><br />In Indonesia, Islamic militants protested Friday and Tuesday in Jakarta and students burned an American flag. Observers said a badminton match with China drew more public attention, but a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry said that if the reports of Koranic desecration were proved true, "that would be an insulting and immoral act."<br /><br />The Koran has such exalted status among Muslims that is it never allowed to touch the ground. It is placed on a high shelf and kissed each time it is opened. Desecrating the Koran is punishable by death in Pakistan, Afghanistan and many other Islamic countries.<br /><br />"The Koran is supposed to be more important than a life," said one Pakistani official, speaking on condition of anonymity. "If there is any disrespect for the Koran, whether true or not, people will believe it and feel it very badly."<br /><br />Because of such feelings, many analysts said that although the initial protests had died down, they doubted the anger over the Guantanamo report would dissipate entirely, even if the allegation was proved untrue.<br /><br />Pakistan's foreign minister, Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri, said during a visit to New Zealand on Tuesday that Newsweek's retraction would "definitely help" prevent further protests. But in Islamabad, the information minister, Sheik Rashid Ahmed, said the retraction was "not enough," adding that the report "insulted the feelings of all Muslims."<br /><br />The groundswell of anger has posed a new challenge to Musharraf, who already was under attack from religious hard-liners for his ties to Washington. Pakistani officials were stung last week when a cartoon in the Washington Times depicted a U.S. soldier patting an obedient dog labeled "Pakistan" after the capture of a senior al Qaeda leader. Dogs are considered unclean by many Muslims.<br /><br /> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051700583_pf.html <br /><br /><br />By all means pile on and print every allegation you can find!<br /><br />Woman says she received desecrated Quran in mail from retailer<br />By Associated Press<br />Thursday, May 19, 2005 - Updated: 07:30 AM EST<br /><br />LOS ANGELES - A Muslim woman who said she ordered a Quran through Amazon.com only to find profanity and religious slurs written inside asked Wednesday for an apology and a full investigation by the online retailer. <br /> <br /> Azza Basarudin, 30, said she received the Quran by mail on May 5 after ordering it through a used books division of Amazon.com that allows customers to order directly from third-party sellers approved by the company. <br /> <br /> When she opened the Quaran, Basarudin said she found profanity and the phrase Death to all Muslims'' written in thick black marker on the otherwise-blank first page. <br /> <br /> I dropped the book because I didn't know what to do,'' she said at a news conference at the Islamic Center of Southern California. <br /> <br /> Salam Al-Marayati, executive director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council, said his organization wants a public apology and investigation from Amazon.com, as well as the firing of those responsible for mailing the desecrated book. <br /> <br /> Patty Smith, a spokeswoman for the Seattle-based book retailer, said the Quran was purchased directly from Bellwether Books, a small book resale company in McKeesport, Pa., through the Marketplace'' section of Amazon's Web site. <br /> <br /> This was not our inventory, it was nowhere in our order or fulfillment process,'' she said. It was a used book purchased through a third party.'' <br /> <br /> Richard Roberts, owner of Bellwether, said he doubts the book was defaced by his employees. The company buys used books at bargain prices from individuals, other book stores and libraries and then resells them through Amazon.com and other outlets. <br /> <br /> He said before this incident, his six employees gave each book a cursory check before shipping and didn't look inside the pages. <br /> <br /> Roberts said Bellwether has since instituted a more stringent quality control check. Bellwether is also suspended indefinitely from selling Qurans through Amazon.com, Smith said. <br /> <br /> Bellwether apologized to Basarudin by e-mail and offered to replace the book. Amazon.com also apologized, reimbursed her for the Quran's cost and mailed Basarudin a gift certificate, Smith said.<br /><br /> http://news.bostonherald.com/national/view.bg?articleid=83818&format=text
 

KaGee

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Re: NEWSWEAK

PW2=TROLL<br /><br />Don't let him get your dander up boys.
 

rogerwa

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Re: NEWSWEAK

About the response of the Islamic people. They ought to look inward and see if there own house is clean.<br /><br /> http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archive\200505\FOR20050519a.html <br /><br /> http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archive\200505\FOR20050519d.html <br /><br />How can the Islamic people expect the treatment they are rioting about when thye do not afford others the same?<br /><br />They play the victims and the oppressed real well. And we are the big bad evil. This is a picture the media is all too happy to present.<br /><br />We all know the opposite is true. They are perpetrators and we are the embodiment of good in the world. Nobody is perfect, yet we are more perfect than them. I'm not joking.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: NEWSWEAK

They play the victims and the oppressed real well
That's because they know how to play to the traitorous "American" press and the left wingers of the world who hate this country and see it as even a bigger threat than the Islamo-Fascists! They must be delusional if they think the Islamo-fascists can be contained or bargained with. Kind of like the self delusion of the world thinking Hitler was no big threat.
 

jtexas

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Re: NEWSWEAK

Originally posted by Ralph:<br /> Yes it was Isikoff, but Newsweek killed the story until Drudge "outed" them. Funny they held that but rushed to print a negative story about our military at a time of war. No bias there huh?<br /><br />If the MSM cared about economics, they would be more balanced. Look at any subscription figures for the MSM and what you'll find is a massive decline. Look at any poll about trust of the MSM and you'll see they have lost the confidence of an overwhelming majority of the public. This isn't about economics. This is about bias and ideology. Even the NYT is now admitting they have a big problem and need to take action. Google it an you'll find the report they commissioned along with the recommendations.<br /><br />[edit] here it is:<br /> http://www.timeswatch.org/twarticles/2005/20050509.asp
Ralph, you're killing me! If we can't count on Big Business to focus on economics, our whole <br />paradigm of a "free market economy" is nothing but an illusion. Surely it's nothing more sinister than incompetence.<br /><br />Newsweek held the Lewinsky scandal, then seven years later printed a few lines on the back pages that turned out to be a mistake...evidence of bias? bit of a stretch, I think. Maybe they just learned a lesson.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: NEWSWEAK

What I'm trying to show you is how stories about the left are treated differently than stories about the right. The Lewinsky story was a major story and lead to an impeachment trial, if all they cared about was selling magazines as you suggest, that story would ever have been held. You held up Lewinsky as some proof of the lack of bias and what I showed was how that story was killed, IMHO, showing just the opposite.<br /><br />The ideologues who work at many media companies aren't motivated by economics. Just read any of Bernie Goldberg's books on media bias to understand the forces are play.<br /><br />
<br />In his nearly thirty years at CBS News, Emmy Award winner Bernard Goldberg earned a reputation as one of the preeminent reporters in the television news business. When he looked at his own industry, however, he saw that the media far too often ignored their primary mission: to provide objective, disinterested reporting. Again and again he saw that the news slanted to the left. For years, Goldberg appealed to reporters, producers, and network executives for more balanced reporting, but no one listened. The liberal bias continued.<br /><br />Now, breaking ranks and naming names, he reveals a corporate news culture in which the closed-mindedness is breathtaking and in which entertainment wins over hard news every time<br />
 
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