New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

[tomr50]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Well, I get mine back this week. Welder found new cracks.

 

[craigmack]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

tomr50, sounds like we (and anyone else with cracked RPTs) should get on a conference call to Sylvan and voice our disgust with the quality of these RPT tubes.

 

[BobGinCO]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

tomr50, sounds like we (and anyone else with cracked RPTs) should get on a conference call to Sylvan and voice our disgust with the quality of these RPT tubes.

I think that's called a CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. And I am not a "sue them" kinda guy, but they clearly have a design flaw (you can split hairs and call it a manufacturing defect, but the RPT toons should be DESIGNED to eliminate the probability of the defect). They've been pretending it doesn't exist, and doing the minimum necessary to correct it (and nothing to prevent it). That's conscious negligence on their part.

 

[craigmack]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Bob, where did I say lawsuit? My point was to let Sylvan know via feedback that they need to step it up and take care of the issue. Now, if they say go jump off a bridge then maybe.

 

[Pesimist]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Bob, where did I say lawsuit? My point was to let Sylvan know via feedback that they need to step it up and take care of the issue. Now, if they say go jump off a bridge then maybe.

Agree with Craigmack, the only ones that profit from a class action are the attorney's. Sylvan is working hard to keep the RPT problem as quite as possible, they don't appear to be worried that a catastrophic toon failure resulting from the brittle nose sections could result in injuries or deaths.

Craig, I PM'd you on this site a few weeks ago.

 

[craigmack]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

hmm... I don't recall getting a PM from you. I just check my messages and didn't find it. Did I respond? Either way I'm waiting to see how the latest repair holds up before talking to Sylvan. To date, they've been responsive so I've been keeping a calm temper (which isn't usually the norm).

 

[BobGinCO]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Bob, where did I say lawsuit?

Sorry I said that poorly. My point was that when the manufacturer makes a product that fails like this, and they continue to manufacture it the same way, that they are consciously sending poor quality product to their customers, and hoping that the customers don't catch on. I'm a CAPA guy - Corrective Action/Preventive Action - for a medical device manufacturer. The FDA would shut us down for that kind of behavior. But we don't fix these problems out of fear of shutdown by the FDA, we fix them because it's the RIGHT THING TO DO. Based on this thread, I would never buy ANY Sylvan product, and I will tell anybody I can to never buy a Sylvan product, because they are demonstrating disregard for the quality of their product, and their customers.

 

[WaterDR]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Perhaps a recall would be in order.

 

[lncoop]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Perhaps a recall would be in order.

Sure sounds like it to me. I can't believe this.

 

[5150abf]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Probably not possible but it would be interesting to see the manufacture dates on the boats that failed, could be as simple as a new welder that wasn't doing it right so the basic design could be good but ti is the wleder that is at fault and by the time the company finds and corrects this probelm thre are X number of boats in the field.

If it is the weld that is cracking I would put that on the guy that did it, still a Sylvan problem of coarse, but not a bad design, just a bad welder.

New guys scare me to death and I sit on them for the first couple days.

I will say quality is a constant battle, you have the same guy doing the same job over and over and over and it is a real challenge to make them understand it isn't just another tube, that pair of tubes are the only ones the owner will see and the only ones he cares about and since every boat has a different owner they all need to be right.

Not defending Sylvan just saying, they have been around a long long time and it isn't because they make bad boats, maybe this particular design is but in general thay are a decent company.

 

[WaterDR]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

I think you also have to keep in mind that no one on this forum really knows the extent of the issue....how many have been sold, vs. how many have had problems. There is no denying that there are at least a handful of folks who have experienced multiple problems, and they have seen failures almost immediately. Yet there are hundreds or more boats not having these issues at all, at least as far as we know.

Our toon has sat in the water since early May, it has been used 50 times, been beached 150 times, and the toons have held up as promised. Why? I don't know. My feelings are that it is not a design issue as much as a quality control problem. The repeated failures, however, especially by folks that have had entire tubes replaced, are the most disturbing of all. Makes me wonder if I got a good one, or if it is just a matter of time.

Regardless, my fingers remain crossed.

 

[Pesimist]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Good point about the extent of the cracking. I didn't know their was an iboats forum until I did extensive web searches to see if my issues were isolated, that's when I discovered Tomr50's post. There are probably hundreds of owners doing like I did - live with it.

I posted on one other forum before I discovered iboats, this is the first response to my post:

"I do not own one. How ever, I'm local to the company, and the problems are bigger than you would think. Those tubes are constantly snached up by the "Salvage Dealers/Builders" in this area. One of them told me every single one he gets was a warranty and had to be repaired some where. If you do a search on ebay for MidAmerican pontoons you will probably see some on the boats they "manufacture". Often they try to take the pics so it only shows the top of the tubes. I also find it interesting that they don't ever make mention what tubes are on them...you would think it would be a selling point for most sellers. Maybe they don't want any one researching them."

 

[emoney]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Hate to hear that forumites are having issues on a brand new boat. I can only imagine the frustration in that regard. And, not to defend any company, especially one I don't have a product from, but it just kinda defies logic that they would knowingly produce a product that they knew was destined to fail. Maybe I'm a tad naive, but it sounds like they have a lot more invested when they're paying warranty claims than if they're not, I'd think. And with "whistle blower protections" in place it just seems more plausible that if there was an attempt at a "cover up" that they'd be "outted" by an employee looking to gain their "15 minutes of fame".

I hope you all get your issues resolved and very swiftly at that.

 

[5150abf]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

One other point as far as repairing these if anyone needs to have that doen in the future, with a crack you need to drill a small hole at each end of the crack, this will stop it from growing and cracking the repair weld, same thing with fiberglass it also helps to score it good with a grinder so more new filler gets into the original crack.

After seeing WaterDRs post I am more convinced than ever that it is a welder issue not a weld or design issue.

 

[Pesimist]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

One other point as far as repairing these if anyone needs to have that doen in the future, with a crack you need to drill a small hole at each end of the crack, this will stop it from growing and cracking the repair weld, same thing with fiberglass it also helps to score it good with a grinder so more new filler gets into the original crack.

After seeing WaterDRs post I am more convinced than ever that it is a welder issue not a weld or design issue.

Agree - Drilling holes is the industry standard to relieve stresses & reduce possibility of cracking further. The cracks are not coming from the Weld Puddles (weldpool), they are adjacent to the puddle and a result of brittle metal after welding. The cracking may be caused by welders but; Sylvan's fresh new toons are cracking, as well as subsequently repaired toons, and again, and again.

I'd be willing to bet every welder that has accomplished repairs on the RPT toons would be very upset that they all were being blamed for crappy work - that isn't the case here! It starts with Sylvan's manufactuing process and it needs to be resolved before someone is hurt or killed.

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

The industry as a whole is beginning to push the outside of the aluminum pontoon design envelope and Sylvan may have found where the wall is built. Someone has to be the pioneer. Unfortunately pioneers usually end up face down with arrows in their backs.

 

[WaterDR]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

The one thing no one really knows is the true extent of these issues on these tubes. What is the real failure rate? While there is no denying the multiple failures that some owners have had, are these problems a handful of folks, dozens, or in the hundreds?

On the internet, the only thing I can find are similar threads to this issue on a few forums and some of the posters are obviously the same people with the same stories.

We also know that there are owners w/o any issues. I asked a mechanic at my dealer recently if they had had any problems. 300+ sylvan toons sold this season (don't know how many RPT's vs non RPT's) and he said he has seen two come back that needed nothing but plugs tightened and he did not recall if they were RPT or not....just small leaks near plugs.

There are reviews of the RPT toons online and in boating magazines, but no mention of design failures or flaws. I also checked the BBB and see no reports either.

If I have any issues, you guys will be the first to know.

 

[Hankson]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

I didn't mean only boat wakes cause this. It happens sometime with just mild seas. Do you have to delegently steer or does it stay on course effortlessly?

 

[Hankson]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Water DR, I know exactly what you are saying and you put it down perfectly. I was out today with 1' to 1-1/2' seas running 30mph. I had about 600lbs of weight. I have to over steer to keep head on corse every second. You can't relax for a second. What in the h--l is going on here? My 8525 Mandalay can't be the only one doing this! Can it? I can feel the pontoons DIG in and you better hold on and counter steer. Your dealer sold 300--mine says he sold 200 this season. Thats 500 pontoons but how many with RPT toons? Is Sylvan not reading these forums? They got about 42K for my boat with the 200hp Suzy. For me, thats a lot of cash to have a boat that darts around like a wild horse. Could my steering need bleeding?

The one thing no one really knows is the true extent of these issues on these tubes. What is the real failure rate? While there is no denying the multiple failures that some owners have had, are these problems a handful of folks, dozens, or in the hundreds?

On the internet, the only thing I can find are similar threads to this issue on a few forums and some of the posters are obviously the same people with the same stories.

We also know that there are owners w/o any issues. I asked a mechanic at my dealer recently if they had had any problems. 300+ sylvan toons sold this season (don't know how many RPT's vs non RPT's) and he said he has seen two come back that needed nothing but plugs tightened and he did not recall if they were RPT or not....just small leaks near plugs.

There are reviews of the RPT toons online and in boating magazines, but no mention of design failures or flaws. I also checked the BBB and see no reports either.

If I have any issues, you guys will be the first to know.

 

[WaterDR]

Re: New Sylvan 8522 CNF with RPT tubes Cracked welds

Are you new to owning a pontoon by any chance? Pontoons don't really track well in water, so I can't tell if your issue is a "normal" thing, or if you really have a problem. I can tell you this, though, I have owned three pontoons. This one cuts through the water better than the other two I had and requires fewer steering corrections.