Modifying a 1975 Trail-R-Craft

[ratdude747]

After buying another trailer and finding out it's maybe not what I want or worth the effort, I am looking to see the feasbility of modifying the trailer I already have to better serve my needs. It's a 1975 Art Roll Manufacturing "Trail-R-Craft".



History: This is the second trailer the boat (A 1976 Starcraft Montego) has ridden on. The original was a low and wide aluminum twin-axle, but the original owner's situation at the time dictated the use of a narrower trailer; this trailer was traded for it. While it has worked all these years, there's a few places that I think could be enhanced.

Issues/Modifications:

First, The trailer seems to be a bit too big. The winch stand is all the way back, but there is nearly 1' of bunk overhanging:



Note that the only thing contacting the back keel roller is the outdrive. Also note that the winch stand is very rusty... and is also ballooned, likely from water freezing after a noted "left in the rain for 6 weeks at a marina" incident 14 years ago. I wonder with a new winch stand/mount the roller contact point could be moved back to get the bunk ends and keel roller closer to the transom of the boat?

Reasons for wanting the change this is partially to make trailering/launching a bit easier (no need to dip the trailer as far), but also as a structural improvement (less stress on bunks) and to allow for full travel of the outdrive without bashing the keel roller.

Thankfully, the fender/axle assembly can be moved on the frame to allow for re-balancing of the tongue weight:



(It is attached to the main frame with U bolts)

The frontmost keel roller is also movable on the center beam... so that could be slid back the appropriate amount when the time comes.

Second, I'd like to add electric trailer brakes. Originally I was thinking I'd need a new axle (part of why I bought another trailer), but as I rediscovered today (and what prompted the change of heart), apparently I already have the flanges for such:



Thus, it should be more or less "trivial" to add electric trailer brakes. One question is how to route the wiring... currently the wiring is run through the frame rails via holes torched in the bottoms of the side tubes:



(taillight wiring)

I can't add another hole in the bottom of the side tube due to how the sliding fender/axle assembly mounts... would I need to run through the same exit hole and then zip tie the wiring back up the outside of the tube to the axle? Or would I want to drill an exit hole in the side of the tube (towards the bottom)? I'm leaning towards the former, as tacky as it may be for structural reasons.

I'd likely also add a breakaway safety (not required in IN due to being under 3500lb, but still)... My truck already has a proportional brake controller (Primus IQ) for use with another trailer I own. My truck's brakes kinda stink (1980's for ya)... and last year the brakes were an issue.

Third and finally, I'd like to add bow steps and (eventually) a spare tire mount. Both of these are obtainable bolt-on items, but I figured I'd mention it.

Thoughts/advice?

 

[ratdude747]

Doing some research and took some more measurements.
Seems modern winch poles are on a steeper angle than what my current one is... which actually works to my advantage.

The current pole has what I'm calculating as a 39.1 degree angle. What I've found online* has a 27.0 degree angle. My current winch mount plate has a roller offset of 13.675" (14" from the far end of the bolt head), so at the 23.675" I measured the bow roller being from the top of the trailer tongue, the new stand, I'm getting a nearly 5" improvement in roller location:



(Gotta love having CAD access through work).

Obviously I can get more improvement with steeper angles or a longer winch/roller mount... but I'm not sure that's attainable off the shelf. 4.9" is better than zilch, right?

* Since iboats doesn't sell winch stands, I assume posting such a link is OK.

 

[aspeck]

Kudos to you, Ratdude! I don't know of many who have taken such painstakingly precise efforts in upgrading/renewing their trailers. Definitely an important part of the equation of getting to, in, out and home from the water! Usually any improvement is better than no improvement.

I added bow steps to my trailer last year. My aging body and bad knees from repeated blows in high school and college sports are catching up to me. The bow steps sure make solo loading and unloading so much easier than it was!

 

[ratdude747]

Kudos to you, Ratdude! I don't know of many who have taken such painstakingly precise efforts in upgrading/renewing their trailers. Definitely an important part of the equation of getting to, in, out and home from the water! Usually any improvement is better than no improvement.

I added bow steps to my trailer last year. My aging body and bad knees from repeated blows in high school and college sports are catching up to me. The bow steps sure make solo loading and unloading so much easier than it was!

The issue warranting steps is mainly my wife who cannot climb into the boat when it's on the trailer... and can only exit if I fireman carry her out. Which means I have to be in the boat for launching, and in the event it's just us two, I have to carry her out after trailering. Not good.

I can climb up the side but I about neuter myself (ouch) on the gunwall unless I belly flop onto the sun deck. Not ideal to say the least!

Sure, a lower trailer fixes that issue, but there are other solutions (and other pro's/con's to such a trailer).

 

[aspeck]

There you can see what I dealt with until I extended the trailer and added the 3 step ladder to the front ... don't have a picture of the finished project, but the step to the top of the winch stand and then from there to the boat was getting a bit rough some days. Some days it was still easy, but ...

 

[ratdude747]

View attachment 406230
There you can see what I dealt with until I extended the trailer and added the 3 step ladder to the front ... don't have a picture of the finished project, but the step to the top of the winch stand and then from there to the boat was getting a bit rough some days. Some days it was still easy, but ...

Yep, been there on the two and half times my wife and I ran the boat solo on the river last year...

 

[ratdude747]

A note that means nothing: The trailer is a 1977 build (per the trailer sticker), not 1975. 1975 was likely the original trailer; there was a messup/under-the-table nonsense with this trailer's old registration (which created a big mess when I got the trailer titled back in 2023), and I had it backwards in my head as to which is which. Technically, IIRC, it is registered as 1975 as a holdover (the other bits of info changed per the police VIN inspection at the time of titling)... but I digress.

Also, I have formally decided to sell the other trailer, so this project will be the one going forward. Stinks that I had to go to the trouble and expense just to find out what I already had was a viable (and better) platform, but sometimes that's how it happens.

 

[MikeSchinlaub]

One other thing, you want the rear straps to be at an angle where they are pulling the boat toward the front of the trailer. So where the straps are mounted to the trailer should be slightly forward of the transom.

 

[ratdude747]

One other thing, you want the rear straps to be at an angle where they are pulling the boat toward the front of the trailer. So where the straps are mounted to the trailer should be slightly forward of the transom.

I'd have to look... right now they're more or less vertical. So moving the boat backwards would help that too...

 

[ratdude747]

Apparently the transom straps have been pulling the boat backwards. See attached.

The way the bunks are, to reverse the angle of need to be overhanging the bunks. Not happening without a different trailer or very unusual winch post /mount geometry.

I will also note that it's been run since 1977 like this... So even if improper, it is proven.

 

[ratdude747]

Took some measurements.

Transom area that contacts the bunks:


On the left (outer) side:


Right (Inner) side:


(Yeah, these bunks are a bit worn. I replaced one that was very rotten last summer... the other three are OK, I didn't replace them because I didn't know what I was doing in the future)

So, about 10-12". Would definitely need either a vertical winch post (if such a thing exists rated for a 1500lb winch) or a winch mount with 2'+ of reach ( have yet to find). Winch posts don't have ratings it seems. I did find straight posts but they were skinny 2x2's for jet ski/pontoon trailers. Maybe need to make/have made a custom pole?

One other idea I had was mounting the winch post to the higher section of the tongue:



However, this fails due to there being exactly 6" between welds. Not even the stock pole would fit (7" between U bolts, let alone the leading flange of the base)... and the end gusset not going all the way down (liable to crush easily? I can get 3/8 and 1/2 U bolts big enough (McMaster-Carr at least)... but if the structure can't take it, then the idea is DOA.

Seems this trailer was designed for a 17' minimum size... my poor 16' is too short.

 

[ratdude747]

May have found something...

Boat Trailer Post And Winch 4 inch x 3 inch x 26 inch Tall | eBay

Boat Trailer Post and winch 4 inch x 3 inch x 26 inch Tall 32 inches overall height

www.ebay.com

A bit rough, but the bones are there and it's correctly sized (for a 3" trailer tongue). Period and patina correct too. Obviously the winch and rollers are junk...

But more importantly, the geometry works out. Due to the way the tube is angled I can go past the gusset (not short since there is no flange) And the offset is misleading due to it being higher than I'd want/need; currently the upper roller is around 34" from the top of the tube (picture not clear, the measurements in the description don't match the picture); Based on what I'm guesstimating, it'll get me pretty close to optimal.

Sadly, the shipping cost is high (and right now I'm in a bit of a spending squeeze until I get the other trailer sold)... Not to say I couldn't copy part of the design and make some of it myself-notably, there are no weldments, just a 4x3 tube, a bent winch plate, and several flat stock braces. Heck, I could design something with a steeper angle and just add an off-the-shelf 3" winch mount... maybe that's the solution here?

Has anybody used a winch stand/mount like this? Is this solid enough?

Edit- I think this is for a 3x4 tongue... and due to the design, the tongue height is critical to stability. Ugh... maybe just replace the 2x4 stand with the off-the-shelf stand in my 2nd post and call it good. The current fitment can't be that bad if it's survived 48 years, right? 5" is an improvement...

 

[ratdude747]

Thinking about brake wire routing again... Not sure what the best option is.

First things first, as a reminder, My current plan is to run two separate cables for each brake to avoid 3-way splices in wet areas (will be joined at junction box). Also of note is that the current rear light wiring runs through the frame tubes already; no wiring is external other than a short bit from the frame rail to the rear light.

Here's a sketch of some ideas I had:



Colors:

• Magenta: Where the Brake wire will drop to the axle no matter which option is used, more or less.
• Blue: My original idea, which runs the brake cable using the existing light wire routing, then does a U-turn and is run externally up the frame rail to the dropoff point.
  • I don't like having the wiring doing such a sharp bend against a rough torch-cut hole in a very wet area... The lights were OK since I loomed them in electrical tape and make a far less sharp bend.
• Red: My other original idea, which drills a hole in the bottom of the crossmember and diagonals the same hole through the side of the frame tube. Would be the slickest option, but would be a pain to fish (doable though with a thin fish tape or some mechanic's wire)... and I'm concerned about structural integrity since it's one of the crossmembers that holds all 4 bunks (arguable the rearmost one has more weight, but this one is second-most loaded. Then again, they did blow the rear light holes where said rearmost crossmember is welded, some maybe this is OK. I dunno.
  • Directly drilling the bottom of the frame rail in this area is out due to the way the spring/axle assembly is attached; I want to maintain adjustability so I can control tongue weight/distribution as I alter the boat's position on the trailer with changes to the winch post/roller setup.
  • Edit: Killing this idea since I'd also need to drill a drain hole in the bottom of the crossmember due to it no longer being sealed. Blue or Green it is!
• Green: Another idea I had. A bit uglier and possibly weaker than the red option, but also may be stronger. While I am an engineer, this sort of structural engineering isn't quite my forte or what I was trained/educated in.

I also noted that the bottom joint of the lower tongue tube and the front crossmember isn't welded (small gap for drainage), but that's a very exposed area to run wiring and I'm afraid road debris will nuke said wiring down there. I'd either have to run along the crossmember and frame rail, or "clothesline" it from the crossmember center to the axle, a span of a few feet, which I don't particularly like either (way too exposed), so I'm writing it off as a possibility.

Thoughts? I haven't ordered anything yet (waiting until I'm done travelling a bit and/or the other trailer sells)... so still pre-planning a bit.

 

[tphoyt]

I just wanted say I love the boats lines. She looks great same goes for the truck.
All the best on your refit.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Your wheel bearing seals need some love.
If you could use your existing winch tower flipped around with some well thought out fabrication I think you could gain almost what you want. Then you’ll have to deal with getting proper tounge weight

 

[ratdude747]

Your wheel bearing seals need some love.

I saw that. But the entire bearing & seal set will be replaced with the brake addition. Nowhere near as bad as the other trailer though!

If you could use your existing winch tower flipped around with some well thought out fabrication I think you could gain almost what you want. Then you’ll have to deal with getting proper tounge weight

The existing one has rust issues... and the geometry doesn't work in reverse as the bow roller would be way too low at max height. I wouldn't want to go past vertical on any replacement winch stand.

 

[FLATHEAD]

 

[ratdude747]

That looks like what was on the other trailer. The issue is the height of bow eye... roller needs to go above it to lock the boat down, and to do that the roller needs to be just shy of 24" above the trailer tongue. Most of those style units are only good for 12-18". But I will look again.

 

[ratdude747]

I did find this unit by Die-matic:



Good for up to 28" of roller height. However, it's a bit pricey ($330 shipped). I presume it's of comparable (or adequate) weight/load rating due to the manufacturer offering it also as a package with a 1400lb winch (I currently have a 1500lb BassPro winch on mine, newly installed last year).

This would probably get me the full 10" and then some. However, it is also over double the cost; I can get the 2x4 stand pole in my 2nd for as low as $150 shipped (assuming the current steep discount at Hydrastar holds out until I have the budget)... So I dunno.

I have plenty of room left to slide the axle/wheel assembly back on the trailer, so when the time comes to move any new stand back, I'll just move the axle assembly back at the same time the same distance to maintain (trailer weight is negligible).

 

[ratdude747]

Did some desperation digging on FB marketplace... and found a possible winner:



It's up in Chicagoland... no shipping (road trip!). Price is currently not bad either.

I'll try to see if I can get any sort of dimensions on it... but I'm always up for a good road trip if it's warranted.

Edit- I do see what looks like a pile of rust under the post... will ask about that too. Last thing I want is more rotten out stuff. At least it isn't freeze damaged like what I have.

(I also found the 2x4 unit in my second post listed, but it's no cheaper than new and all the way up in Cleveland... No thanks)