Mercruiser Inliner Swap Progress...165 Rebuilt I6 replacing the old 470

sprintst

Commander
Joined
Apr 18, 2009
Messages
2,066
Looks great man. That boat is now better than new. The first couple of trips justify all the hard work with all the later trips a bonus.
 

WOEISMEIGOTTA470

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
375
Thanks everyone, felt really good to be out there reaping the rewards of hard work.

Only thing is I'm concerned about some engine noise, I have a hard time pinpointing what it might be. Listen to the video @ the 1:03 mark it's quite harsh, like a rattling sound. Any tips on what the sound might be???
https://youtu.be/IIrNUYzUMd8
 

EricT71

Cadet
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
16
It's difficult to say what it is, but I can definitely hear it at 1:03. Possibly pre-ignition, what kind of load was it on at that moment, what RPM?
 

WOEISMEIGOTTA470

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
375
It's difficult to say what it is, but I can definitely hear it at 1:03. Possibly pre-ignition, what kind of load was it on at that moment, what RPM?
Yeah I thought it sounded like pre-ignition too. I rechecked timing, and did retard it back to about 5-6?btdc @700rpm. Didn't seem to help any :/
Yesterday I did a valve adjustment. While I was there I checked lifters, and they all move freely and have good wear patterns. My worst fear is that it's rod knock or piston slap, which would be hard to believe. I think it sounds a bit better after the valve adjustment, but it's hard to say from only running it in the driveway. This engine has hydraulic tappets, and valve adjustment is set to 3/4 turn past zero lash. That noise happens when boat is trying to plane out, @ ~2500-3000rpm.

Cool glad to see it in the water!
Thanks Arch!! I'm still far from done, but I'd like to enjoy it a bit before the weather gets too cold.
 

EricT71

Cadet
Joined
Mar 20, 2016
Messages
16
These are general behaviors of the things you have mentioned-

Pre-ignition- appears under load. Can be caused by too much timing advance, carbon deposits in chamber, fuel contaminants, mixture too lean, or octane too low for amount of compression.

Rod knock- sounds like someone is literally banging on the engine with a large hammer. Gets louder as engine warms up. Volume is proportional to rpm. Does not come and go, it is very consistent.

Piston slap- will be loud when engine is cold and diminish once it warms up. caused by pistons too small, out of round, or bad engine geometry. Sound is similar to a rod knock but not nearly as loud, sounds "faint" by comparison.


Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:

WOEISMEIGOTTA470

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
375
Eric, definitely sounds like detonation to me. I'm pretty certain cause I'm familiar with that sound, and it only happens under load. Running the engine stress free it sounds OK. Just I have no clue on what could be causing it. I filled it up with 93 octane, engine is running cool, no carbon as the engine is new. I have the pertronix II ignition. Only thing I can think of is distributor advance curve being off. Compression test #'s are between 120 to 160 psi.
 

Mark72233

Ensign
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
926
I was having similar issues with both of my engines, after I bought brand new alternators it is completely gone now. I messed with the timing, spark plugs, carb fuel adjustments, fuel pumps. I had the brand new coil and other ignition parts with the Pentronixs and I just couldn't get the dang engines to run right. until new alternators. Just throwing it out there.
 

WOEISMEIGOTTA470

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
375
Thanks Mark, yeah I remember you saying new alternators really helped your situation. I'm already running a brand new unit. I was going to ask you what your compression numbers are though if you have em handy. Also what sort of timing are you running?
 

Mark72233

Ensign
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
926
On the timing it's whatever the book called for I don't remember what that was maybe 6* Before? As far as the compression they were all in the 145 range.
 

mickyryan

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Messages
4,214
as I just found out a cracked piston skirt makes that sound under load and very faint at idle but loud light tinny sound not at all like a rod knock and could not hear it in driveway with wooden listening device .
 

WOEISMEIGOTTA470

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
375
Update, I removed the head yesterday, no signs that I could tell of a bad head gasket or anyhing. Anyhow, I'm bringing the head down to a machine shop today to have it checked for cracks and surface flatness. I'm also going to see if they can install hardened ex. valve seats.
 

WOEISMEIGOTTA470

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
375
Scored a Bimini Top off of CL, great deal for only $100!! 4-bow nice and large, sturdy metallic fittings, with cover...ready for that warmer weather now where is it?!?!?? :laugh::D:D








In other news, I'm going to pop upen my carb, I have a sneaky suspicion that the carb place never even opened it up. I could be wrong but anyways I found the correct jets for the rochester 2bbl on eBay, genuine quicksilver parts. So we'll see if that helps any with my pinging issues...
 

WOEISMEIGOTTA470

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
375
Hmm just realized I haven't really updated in a while. So to bring the thread up to speed, I had the cylinder head rebuilt with new hardened ex. valve seats. During the time it was at the machine shop, I installed new rollers on the trailer and got the tongue weight adjusted properly. Yippie.

Then just before Thanksgiving, the head was ready to be picked up from the shop. I got the engine all reassembled that weekend, and by next weekend had it back in the water for another test run. Well, the noise didn't go away. So it's got to be a tuning issue. I was able to get really good spark plug readings, installing fresh plugs while out on the water. Looks to be running too lean. I changed the fuel inlet barb fitting on the fuel pump to a fitting with a larger ID, and that seemed to help a little. My partner who was with me had noticed that the fuel pressure was dropping down about 2psi the further I depressed the throttle (from 6psi at idle to 4psi at higher speeds). After changing the fitting this problem was resolved.

So at this point I'm going to look for a distributor spring kit, and see if I can change the distributor springs to stiffer ones to get a less aggressive timing curve, and also check into the carburetor and see what jets are actually in there, measure them with a pin gauge. Not sure if the weather will hold out long enough for another test run, but if I can't get it running right after trying those two aforementioned things, I'm going to just haul it to a marina and have them tune it up for me.

Some more pictures...

Worked on polishing the bow up...




Trailer work, new rollers...launches so nice now, and retrieval has also much improved much less strain on the winch now. Had to drill new holes for all new cotter pins, as these rollers were a bit wider on the hub the washers made it impossible to get the cotter pins in, a big PITA but worth it.





Here's the fresh head with hardened seats pressed in...yay no more lead additives!

 

proshadetree

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2008
Messages
1,887
Fuel pressure still sounds low. I think they run 8psi at idel. Cam lobe or fuel pump possible on that inline. Timing should be 6 btc at idel 32 all in at 2000rpm. These figures are from memory. But should be real close , might help ping issue.
 

gsxrdan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 28, 2016
Messages
317
10,000 views!! i like those wobble mounts on the trailer, and good luck with the tuning...
 
Top