LiFePO Batteries ???

[tpenfield]

Since it is raining and I'm bored . . . I'm seeing if I can bring any life back into a couple of these batteries. One battery was sitting at about 10volts and the others (6 of them) are sitting at around 5.4 volts.

I've got a charger that does repair/(reconditioning) . . . essentially it charges the battery at various stages then stops and looks to see if the voltage drops or maintains. It takes a couple of days of cycling and either works or it doesn't.


I did try it a couple of years ago on a wicked dead battery from my F-150 (sitting at 2 volts) and the charger told me to forgetaboutit

 

[tpenfield]

Progress Update . . .

I got the battery shelf in the engine bay cleaned out of the battery boxes and took a look at the remaining wiring. Each wire (cable) is labeled as to its purpose/connection (Thank you Cruisers Yacht ).



Also, much of my electrical 'stuff' arrived today, so I've started laying out the components on the PVC mounting board that I'll be using.


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Here is the area where the cable routes forward to the inverter.
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The solar panel is still working, but the PWM controller is being replaced in favor of an MPPT controller.
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Once I have the layout done and the two engine batteries positioned, I can then get a measurement of how much additional cable I'll need to tie the LiFePO4 battery bank into the system. I plan of putting those batteries a bit more forward in the boat in the 'utility bay' where the inverter and a few other things are located. I suspect that I'll need about 6 feet of 2/0 AWG cable for positive (red) and ground (yellow).

 

[bruceb58]

I've ordered two 100Ah LiTime LiFEPO4 batteries with cold temperature charging protection to replace the five AGM batteries that served as the house battery bank. They should arrive on/about Wednesday of next week.

Didn't know you were going to use LiTime. They have a spec that would keep me from buying them. They recommend a max charge current of 0.2C which means you shouldn't go over 40A with the two of them combined. If you aren't going to go over 40A, then they will be fine.

https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-tm-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-for-trolling-motors

 

[tpenfield]

Didn't know you were going to use LiTime. They have a spec that would keep me from buying them. They recommend a max charge current of 0.2C which means you shouldn't go over 40A with the two of them combined. If you aren't going to go over 40A, then they will be fine.

https://www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-100ah-tm-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-for-trolling-motors

View attachment 396106

Yes, I will be fine.

 

[bruceb58]

Yes, I will be fine.

Thought the Xantrex can output 100A for charging. That will be WAY too much for these batteries.

 

[tpenfield]

Thought the Xantrex can output 100A for charging. That will be WAY too much for these batteries.

The Xantrex can/does put out 80 Amps for charging. But to your point I'll take a look at the batteries and the Xantrex to see about the limitation you mentioned.

 

[tpenfield]

The maximum continuous charge current is 100 amps. Which I recall checking as I looked into these batteries. So, in the extreme situation the Xantrex would charge at twice the recommended, but only 40% of the maximum continuous rating. They should be fine. I believe I can create a custom charging profile on the Xantrex, So, I'll see about limiting the charge current there.

 

[tpenfield]

Executive Decision . . .

I was going to try to locate the LFP4 batteries more forward in the boat to get as much weight as possible out of the stern . . . BUT . . . The bulkheads and conduit passage ways are such that it is going to be a PITA to do so.

After at least 2 minutes of consultation among me, myself, and I, . . . 'we' have come to the decision of just having all of the batteries (2 Grp 27 LA, and 2 LFP4) at the engine bay bulkhead /battery shelf for a total weight of approximately 162 lbs, (vs. the 500 lbs that was there). Wiring will be easier, etc.

BTW - the battery cable in this boat is from a Wisconsin company "Just In Time Corp" Sturgeon Bay, WI. http://justintimecorp.com/ Which is an OEM cable supplier for marine, aircraft, etc. industries. The boats are made in WI as well, so good use of local suppliers.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Wiring harness used to come from Unlimited Services in Oconto (behind the now defunct Bond Pickle factory)

Not sure if Cruisers still use them

 

[cyclops222]

Do not like that .2C internal current limit. By the internal ...BMS . Hopefully that is a typo error. Check with the company.
My old LIFEPO4 tool packs can handle 2 X rated capacity during recharge. Has for decades. That is one of the advantages. A 5 hour recharge time is not right for a 100 amp battery.

 

[tpenfield]

I'm not concerned about the charging current . . . the batteries will take more than the system can give it, and the recommended charging is in the spec. range of the other system components.

 

[bruceb58]

The max current you can charge each battery is 20% of each battery's capacity(20A each). Apparently, it's because LiTime uses fairly low grade cells in their batteries.

The BMS rating is a lot higher than the battery itself since the FETs are in the same path for both charging and discharge and are made for batteries that can tolerate 1C charging.

 

[bruceb58]

Do not like that .2C internal current limit. By the internal ...BMS . Hopefully that is a typo error. Check with the company.
My old LIFEPO4 tool packs can handle 2 X rated capacity during recharge. Has for decades. That is one of the advantages. A 5 hour recharge time is not right for a 100 amp battery.

Never seen a tool pack that uses LiFePO4 batteries. Can you show an example?

 

[tpenfield]

One thing that I need to do is isolate the ProNautic 1230 from that accessory (now the house) battery bank, which will be the LFP4 batteries. In addition I have to re-route the third branch of the 2-Alternator/3 Battery isolator. Finding these leads have take a few hours. The charger lead was appropriately labeled and where I expected it to be per the OEM wiring diagram.

The feed from the alternator isolator . . . not so easy to find. It was not where it was supposed to be according to the factory wiring diagram. I did find it. Instead of being connected at the switch as indicated on the diagram, it was connected to the Accessory power bus bar.
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Of course the way the electrical wiring is set up in this boat, it is difficult to reach. I've never been in love with the way the boat has been wired . . . too much stuff in places too difficult to reach.
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Anyway, I got me some 6 AWG wire to make a new feed for the LFP4 to go to the DC-DC charger as planned.

 

[cyclops222]

Looks like Grand Central Train Station power control center. What happens when too many electrical items are added to a boat. The schematic posted looks SOOO simple.

 

[tpenfield]

Yup, a dirty mess.

More progress . . . slowly but surely. I prepped the lead that will go from the alternator isolator to the DC-DC charger. Keeping with the theme of the wiring, I added a label to the wire.
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Here is the wire installed . . .
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I'll be cutting/prepping the other end to proper length..

Meanwhile I got the rest of the old system out of the way . . .
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All cleaned up waiting for the new panel, which is my next step of tasks . . .

 

[tpenfield]

Progress update . . .

Waiting for parts/supplies to arrive. I did stop at West Marine yesterday for a couple of things, but the pricing is a bit scary vs. what I can do online.

Anyway, I've got my battery box layout roughed out. The 2 engine batteries on the outside and the 2 house batteries will be on the inside. The 2/0 cabling reaches these locations as needed.
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I did need to do something about the feed from the port engine alternator. It served to charge the inverter bank, but it is no longer needed in this 'new' design, since the inverter and accessory banks are now combined into a single 'house' bank. Anyway, I was able to find the port engine isolation post (pretty much out in the open) and disconnect the feed.
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It routes from the engine stringer up onto the battery shelf in then to the bulkhead where it connects to an isolator. I took everything out . . . feed wire and isolator, since it is no longer needed. (either engine will be able to charge the 3 battery banks (Starboard, port, house) in the new design.
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I'll keep the isolator in case I ever have a need for it. I did find that the connections were not very tight, particularly at the 300 amp fuse. . . so I cleaned an secured them all.

I may not get much more done today, as I wait for the deliveries to arrive. My only 'fun' right now is recharging the AGM-31 batteries, and having the Admiral come up with more home improvement projects for me to do.

 

[tpenfield]

A bunch of my stuff arrived today, so I was able to get the components mounted to the PVC board. Some of the components are more straight than others . . .
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Now just to wire it all up.

 

[bruceb58]

Who makes those breakers? Hopefully, not the cheap $20 chinese ones on Amazon.

I have those same busbars. I would never buy them again. A third of the posts had galling after tightening them just once and I had to replace. Should have stuck with BlueSea.

 

[tpenfield]

More progress . . .

I am back home, away from the boat for a day or so. . . . but I did make good progress on the wiring yesterday and this AM.
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It is fairly tedious, since I am doing both crimping and soldering and then heat shrink at the ends. I just got to remember where everything goes.

I'm not happy with the CB's . . . for some reason I got the wrong ones than what I was intending, but I'll make due. Also, I've heard that the bus bar posts can gall up pretty quickly. So, I put some grease on them.

Anyway, I should be back at it tomorrow (quick trip home), then back to the summer house/boat. The new batteries (LFP4) should arrive on Wednesday, and I'll be getting the LA starter batteries locally.

I'd like to get the electrical system back in operation by later this week, so I can lower the engine hatch and do some test fitting of the camper canvas that I am making.