LiFePO Batteries ???

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
I got another over voltage fault . . . so something isn't right. Got to figure out the solar controller stuff and then see where the issue lies.
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,523
Is there a catastrophic fuse somewhere after the lithium batteries? You should really have one on the leads right after each battery if not the bus bar.

As far as the overvoltage, make sure everything is in lithium mode and there is nothing that is trying to go into equilization which is not needed or wanted with lithium.
 
Last edited:

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
Thanks guys . . . I'll be taking a fresh look at things in the AM. The fact that the Xantrex unit does not have a lithium setting blows my mind. The stupid ProNautic has one, but it was not a good option (design-wise) to have the ProNautic charge the lithiums.

@bruceb58 . . . There is a 300 Amp fuse in series from the LFP to the Inverter (No Breaker), but the accessory side of things is all circuit breakers.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
FWIW - Here is the 'as built' wiring diagram. The purple wires are the lithium-powered positive leads on/from the off-grid panel that I made.

I'm seeing the over-charge fault on the Xantrex, which I assume is being magically communicated from the LFP's. When it has the fault, the voltage goes to 12.7 ish and stays there for a while. So, I assume that is a protection mode of some sort.
.
CY-338-Power-Diagram-LiFePO4-4D2.png
.
I'll post updates as I test & discover more.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
Quick Update . . .

The LFP batteries were at 13.3 volts this AM. I turned on AC power and watched the charging. It was at 13.8-14.0 volts for a couple of minutes @ 20 amps in 'Bulk' charging phase. Then the voltage went up to 14.9-15.0 all by itself o_O and the batteries went into protected mode. (12.7 volts). :cautious:

So, it appears that there is something funky about the Xantrex charging. I'm not sure if it has to do with the 'custom' settings or a more broad-based problem with the charging. I may try a full reset as suggested and perhaps see if the AGM charging profile works properly, as it is the most similar to LFP profile (I believe). :unsure:
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
The AGM profile was no better . . . same thing . . . ran for a couple of minutes then the LPF's said overcharge and set the voltage to 12.7.

I reset the Xantrex to factory settings and will see if that make any difference.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
Here is the error message and the explanation from the Troubleshooting Guide.
.
Xantrex-Fault-49.png
.
This is all fine and dandy, but I cannot find anywhere in the manual that speaks of a 'High Battery Cut Out' setting. I did find a 'Low Battery Cut Out' (LBCO) setting.

I am beginning to wonder if the solar charger (EPEver) is kicking in and the unit needs to be configured. :unsure:
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
Yet another update . . .

I switched my attention to the solar charger (EPEver) (the sun has not been out for the past 3 days, so solar charging has been challenging.

Anyway, I was able to set the battery type (BATT1) to LFP4. The solar panel voltage is pretty decent even in the clouds. I am getting as much as 19v at the panel and charging the LPF4 batteries at about 2-3 amps.

The EPEver does not 'see' the starter batteries (BATT2), and I believe it is because of no activation signal to the Victron FETisolator. I had assumed in my design that the EPEver would try to put voltage to the BATT2 in any case, but apparently it needs full connectivity to the starter battery(ies). I'll need to use the BATT1 voltage as a signal to the FET isolator.

Once I get the solar controller sorted out, I'll re-visit the Inverter charging. I won't have much use for the inverter charging, so I could just disable it . . . but . . . it would be nice to have it working properly, if ever needed.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
I've had success with the solar charger . . . even though it has a mind of its own :ROFLMAO: . I got the starter battery issue sorted; just needed to move the FET activation wire over to the solar panel input. Then the controller recognized the starter battery bank. At night the FET's will shut down.

The LFP4 batteries love the solar controller (at least at first sight :LOL: ) and have been happily trickle charging into the 3.4-3.5 volt range as sunlight permits.

I was actually able to move onto to my canvas project and got a few pieces installed for final fitting. Also the 7 AGM batteries and the 3 battery boxes are sold to good homes. My Admiral asked about the money 💰 I got for them :rolleyes: . . . Apparently I'm a bit over budget for the off-grid power project. Those odds & ends add up.:LOL:
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,523
Here is the error message and the explanation from the Troubleshooting Guide.
.
View attachment 396503
.
This is all fine and dandy, but I cannot find anywhere in the manual that speaks of a 'High Battery Cut Out' setting. I did find a 'Low Battery Cut Out' (LBCO) setting.

I am beginning to wonder if the solar charger (EPEver) is kicking in and the unit needs to be configured. :unsure:
What device has the overvoltage warning?
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,523
What is the purpose of the relay mounted between the solar controller and the DC to DC converter?
 

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,523
I just saw you have Battery Temp Compensation turned on. That needs to be off for lithium batteries.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
That's a lot of questions. :LOL:

  • The Xantrex shows the over-voltage warning (Fault #49)
  • The relay shuts of solar charging when the engine is running. (not really needed, but I put it in anyway)
  • I'll see about battery temperature compensation. Not sure if there is an 'off' setting. . . IIRC, it was cold-warm-hot. I noticed what appears to be a Xantrex battery temperature sensor mounted to the port ground bus bar, which is one of the prescribed mounting options.
Screenshot 2024-04-08 at 4.46.02 AM.png

I have not run the Xantrex in charger mode since doing the factory reset, as I've been letting the solar charger do some work. I might try the Xantrex in charging mode today.

I did find a 'Hi Battery Cut Out', which relates to the fault code (#49) I am seeing. Here is the description in the manual . . .
=================================
Item - Hi Batt Cut Out

Description

Hi Batt Cut Out sets the maximum battery voltage at which the inverter will operate. If the battery voltage exceeds this limit for more than one minute, the Freedom SW displays a fault message and shuts down. The inverter will not support AC loads when in this condition. If a qualified AC source is present, the unit passes AC through to the loads. The inverter automatically restarts when the voltage drops to 1.5 volts (12 volt system) or 3 volts (24 volt system) below the Hi Batt Cut Out setting. If battery voltage continues to rise after shutdown, an external charger may still be charging the batteries. The Freedom SW cannot control how external chargers operate.
================================

So, I'll see if I can find this setting, as it may be set too low.

Overall . . . this stuff is way too complicated . . . o_O
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
For all those following along, here is the wiring change I made to the solar controller so that it would 'see' the starter batteries.

Before (did not see the starter batteries)
Screenshot 2024-04-08 at 4.51.35 AM.png
.
.
After (sees the starter batteries)
Screenshot 2024-04-08 at 4.53.13 AM.png
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
A bit frosty this morning . . .
.
IMG_6004.JPG
.
The batteries were at about 35˚F, so I'm letting things warm up a bit.

I did check all of the settings on the Xantrex and made a few changes. . . (1) Disabled Auto-charging, and (2) Set the Hi Batt Cut Out (HBCO) voltage to 15.0v vs. the default of 16.5, also (3) Set the Charging to 2-stage/No Float.

We'll see how that goes.

@bruceb58 - No temperature compensation enable/disable that I could see. It only has adjustments to the values. I could just set it to '0' . . . :unsure:
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
Greetings . . . having survived the Apoc-eclipse of yesterday, I will be away from the boat for a while (probably a good thing at this point). :ROFLMAO:

Anyway, I am going to test the Xantrex charging this morning to see if it still produces the fault. The description of the Hi Batt Cut Out (HBCO) fault has me thinking that the Xantrex may not like having a second charging source while its charging. This would be the solar controller during daytime operation, and even the DC-DC charger if the engines were running.

As a matter of practice, I'd only be using the Xantrex to charge during overnights while at a slip with shore power. All other times, I have no access to shore power (the boat is kept on a mooring), so the Xantrex would have no ability to charge the batteries. I'll hopefully figure things out with some more testing. The various circuit breakers in the off-grid panel that I made allow me to shut off solar charging and even alternator-sourced charging of the LFP's if I wanted to.
 

tpenfield

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
17,920
Better results today . . .

The Inverter charger charged up the LFP's and actually went into Absorption mode . . . :oops: . . . No fault warnings . . .
.
IMG_6012.JPG
.
Here is the configuration I have at this point . . .
IMG_6017.JPG
.
IMG_6018.JPG
.
IMG_6019.JPG
.
IMG_6016.JPG
.
IMG_6015.JPG
.
IMG_6021.JPG
.
Here are the other chargers . . .
Solar (EPEver DuoRacer) . . .
IMG_6014.JPG
.
ProNautic . . .
IMG_6013.JPG
.
I think my approach will be to only enable the Inverter's charging capabilities when I'm on Shore Power and need a charge. Sort of how LFP batteries like it anyway.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_6020.JPG
    IMG_6020.JPG
    102.2 KB · Views: 2
Last edited:

bruceb58

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 5, 2006
Messages
30,523
That recharge volts is WAY too low for lithium. It needs to be closer to 13.4V
 
Top