Labor Unions

[rolmops]

Re: Labor Unions

12footer,this is in defense of the bagage handlers.<br />A week before the sick out these people- whose pensions had become worthless because they were in company stock-were told that they were going to have to accept a cutback in their pay.Then the management voted themselves a fat raise and fired the CEO.They let him go with a 20 million dollar separation package in spite of the fact that he had failed to properly manage the company.12footer would you not have joined the sick out????

 

[crab bait]

Re: Labor Unions

Originally posted by DJ:<br /> I'm not a union lover. I don't belong to one and I never would. But, things said above make you think.<br /><br />If two similar products are built, one by a union company, the other by a non union company and are priced the same.<br /><br />Who's doing the gouging?<br /><br />I would say the non union company. They're not giving that extra profit to the employees or lowering prices..

exactly..the next time you's buy a chevy.. ask to buy a mexican made chevy..<br /><br />cause they're alot cheaper in price , huh..??

 

[NathanY]

Re: Labor Unions

..the next time you's buy a chevy.. ask to buy a mexican made chevy..<br /><br />cause they're alot cheaper in price , huh..??

Who in their right mind would purposely buy a Chevy?

 

[pjc]

Re: Labor Unions

I drive a F150 now and my wife drives a Lumina. Before these I drove a Cheby K15 and she drove a Ford Probe......go figure..........

 

[12Footer]

Re: Labor Unions

Originally posted by rolmops:<br /> 12footer,this is in defense of the bagage handlers.<br />A week before the sick out these people- whose pensions had become worthless because they were in company stock-were told that they were going to have to accept a cutback in their pay.Then the management voted themselves a fat raise and fired the CEO.They let him go with a 20 million dollar separation package in spite of the fact that he had failed to properly manage the company.12footer would you not have joined the sick out????

Hypothetically, yes, I probably would have. But not a sick-out such as that, which was purposefully scheduled to coinside with holliday travel. It hurt FAR more than the "target" of thier rage, (the company who's stocks were also errepairably trashed forever by this action), and the lingering effects of loosing future customers for good, who were victums of this sick-out. I doubt I could sleep at night, with that on my head.<br />What unions have totally lost-sight of is, that if they price themselves higher then the market will bear, they loose in addition to the targeted buisnesses. They need to get a life and change thier tactics in favor of thier own future. Until they do, they are shooting themselves in the proverbial foot.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Labor Unions

My definetion of Union. A group who only cares about themselves regardless of the results to the company AND consumer. <br /><br />America once had the largest textile industries in the world. Up until NAFTA there were still some non-union textile manufacturing going on that was able to compete. Now that NAFTA is here, textile industry in the USA is just about completely gone.<br /><br />IMHO, Unions have accelerated the technology to reduce the number of labor positions. More robots who listen to a program without feelings, sickness, and no complaining. They do the job endlessly and better than a human doing the job.<br /><br />I was taught that when you work for someone, they have a need for your service. If you cannot deliver that service, someone else will. So just do your friggen job and do it well. And if you and others don't, there will be a foriegner ready to jump right in and do it for less.<br /><br />Between technology and outsourcing, union or non union, we won't be worth nothing in the USA if our jobs are lost completely.<br /><br />There are lots of us who do take pride in what we do. It is our blood and sweat that makes things work. Having a "CARE" about your service and how it pleases the customer is what it is really about. Without a consumer buying the product, your service is a waste of time.

 

[fixin]

Re: Labor Unions

Originally posted by SS MAYFLOAT:<br /><br /><br />IMHO, Unions have accelerated the technology to reduce the number of labor positions. More robots who listen to a program without feelings, sickness, and no complaining. They do the job endlessly and better than a human doing the job.<br /><br />.

How did unions accelerate technology?Why would they want to give up their jobs to robots?

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Labor Unions

Fixin, Sorry, bad on my part. In the eye of the company, a robot can easily replace a couple of employees. (I'm not a major in this stuff, just trying to use common sense here.) Replacing employees equals less benefits and wages. Plus then write off the purchase of the robot on their taxes. <br /><br />If there wasn't a need for robots, there wouldn't be a market for them. I look at this as companys is going to research to find ways to eliminate positions. They would be crazy if they didn't. <br /><br />If the company wants to be more productive it can't replace union workers with non-union to make more of a profit. If they did, everyone here would know what would happen. STRIKE! But to replace union workers with technology/robots is a way they can without a strike. JMO

 

[fixin]

Re: Labor Unions

O.K. I get that.

 

[pjc]

Re: Labor Unions

My employer in particular has many robotic manufacturing cells. Very excellent from a manufacturing perspective due to increased quality and productivity.<br /><br />These "robots" still require care and feeding to produce product. The support jobs that provide the care and feeding of the 'bots are hourly positions, filled by Union persons. <br /><br />'bots never have nor never will feed themselves. And qualified highly skilled persons support the 'bot, regardless if Union represented or not.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Labor Unions

If it wern't for automation in the werkplace, I wouldn't have a job. It's what I've done for the past 31 years, in one field or another.<br />What i'm getting at is, it takes more than building an automated task master. It takes a machine-instructor,and a staff of qualified human maintainence werkers to babysit the thing.<br />The effect on the werk force is profound, by a metamorphosis (SP) of the werk force.<br />Example; Exchanging the "Teamsters union" for the "Brotherhood of Electical engineers" or some such rot. That is progress, I guess.

 

[bassman283m]

Re: Labor Unions

Right, pjc. I'm a quality engineer in a factory that makes OEM automotive interior components. We have vastly increased the use of robots in the last 10-15 years, mostly dependent on the capability of the robots themselves. The robot gives you consistent cycle times and therefore more consistent product quality. We also use a lot of sensors in the assembly nests to detect defects and to detect the components the humans install. The robots have sharply reduced most of the ergonomic and repetitive motion injuries we used to experience. <br /><br />However, robots cannot run themselves. The robot unloading an injection press can maintain a a 40 second cycle all day and all night (at least until something breaks) but it has no idea whether the part it just pulled out of the mold is good or bad, nor does it care. You still need your human operator for that.<br /><br />The paint robot follows the exact same pattern at the same rate every time but has no idea if the gun is clogged or the viscosity has changed, nor does it care. Poor coverage or paint runs feel the same to the robot as a properly painted part. Maybe someday sensors will be able to do this and maybe those sensors will be less expensive than simply having a human inspect the part.<br /><br />In the 18 years I've been at this plant, the relationship between union and mangement has been one of cooperation and mutual respect. Our current plant manager walked in off the street about 28 years ago as a production worker trimming foam.

 

[Koda]

Re: Labor Unions

Just a thought out of left field but I have read all of the previous posts and after considering all of the above, I would like to give my thoughts on unions with the IBEW in particular. I have been in a union shop since starting in power line work in 1961, and have recently retired but I feel that one of the main reasons for unions has been over looked.<br />When I started in my profession the average time from clinbing the first power pole to injury or death was about seven years and at the start of the IBEW it was a matter of months not years so in one respect it was primarily a matter of survival not greed, you do not hand a man a set of hooks and say get er boy with no training and expect him (or her) to survive for any period of time, the onset of technolgy has made this world much more comlicated than it was ten or twenty years ago. For that matter, last year and it is the obligation of every member of the work force the keep abreast of the changes and saftey involved in the new world so to speak and that is in part the job of a good union and employer<br />working together for the mutual good of both parties, learning by experince is fatal in my trade and you serve an apprenticeship of three to five years to become a Journyman Lineman, there are companys that are not union that will let a person start climbing and depend on the fellow crew members to teach that person the tricks of the trade with sometimes tragic results<br />so do not use a blanket to condem unions in general, I realize there are some places that need a lot of improvment but the world is changing and both management, union and nonunion, will have to change or starve and that is the bottom line.<br />Many jobs require advanced training/schooling<br />and the most if not all unions provide this as part of thier training program. <br />One more thought that i would like to bring up is what about the civil service workers job security, the only way to get rid of a slacker in some positions is to promte them to get rid of them, talk about a joke!!<br />Damm sorry to ramble but there are many things to fix and i do not have the answers.

 

[agitator]

Re: Labor Unions

You should be in a state where civil service workers are unionized. I am . This takes difficulty in putting pressure on slackers and misbehavers to a new level.

 

[agitator]

Re: Labor Unions

You should be in a state where civil service workers are unionized. I am . This takes difficulty in putting pressure on slackers and misbehavers to a new level.

 

[wajajaja]

Re: Labor Unions

Unions are a corner stone of freedom; it was the IBEW that that broke the USSR in POLAND, Regains position on PTCO was a disgrace to all Americans. No America cannot be held hostage by a work group, but workers have a right to grieve their grievances. <br />Union contracts are most valuable to a large company; it allows it to set standard working conditions. Wages, hours, benefits, put it in writing and gets volunteers (stewards) to enforce those rules that the upper management and representatives decreed. It establishes labor cost for a set period of time and provides stability, it control the middle manager from fouling up the compensation system intentionally or otherwise. <br />Most of the grievance’s put forth are resolved at the mid level management level. Some are due to problems with outsourcing administrating firms.<br />How about if each of the 70,000 union members of Verizon decided to demand their own custom written contract.

 

[Barlow]

Re: Labor Unions

"Unions are a corner stone of freedom"...errr ... uuhhh for whom??oh .. ferners.<br /><br />"workers have a right to grieve their grievances".. sure they do. then get their rearends back to work and stop whining.. they don't like it .. there's the door.<br /><br />"Union contracts are most valuable to a large company; it allows it to set standard working conditions. Wages, hours, benefits, put it in writing and gets volunteers (stewards) to enforce those rules that the upper management and representatives decreed"<br /><br />ummm... is there something in there someplace .. err yeah , right. I believe its underminnu=ing right from the start. if a nonunion person contacts the union and inquires of forming with-in their employment situation isn't it correct that the union rep advises this person, "Best to keep this a secret."<br /><br /><br />I've kicked stewards of jobs for breaking their own rules .. one, in @ 1994 on the construction of the Great Wolf (formerly the Black Wolf) Resort in Wisconsin Dells on Phases 1-3. We were the only sub-contractor on the site that was non-union... some guy climbs up onto the deck that I'd never seen in any job meetings #1 w/o a nut bucket.. #2 interupted 6 guys to 'talk' to them. I asked who he was and then explained in very blunt colorful english that he could talk all he wanted at Lunch or after work. NOT on my time, not to my crew and especially on the deck of my job w/o proper personal safety gear (glasses and nut-bucket) OSHA would have a field day with that one! not to mention the insurance companies. A week passes and the idiot shows up again we're now framing the floor above and he comes strutin down the hallway with a big smile on his face asking me to talk.. I reply nope.. got things to do, I'm workin' and so are the 45 other carpenters here. At that time one of my crew members intentionally drops a 22' 11-7/8" TJI 250 onto the deck right behind him and yells " HEADS UP!".. the guy nearly messed himself and in the comotion threw his hands up to the top of his head where as his hard hat was tucked under his arm so cute ... it fell to the ground. protecting the rough outline of a 12" circle.. <br /><br />now if this is leadership.. please shoot me!! <br /><br />Just one of many tales I could tell about my experiences with Union Pride.