Is security worth giving up some freedom?

DJ · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

Scoop, Yep, I'm sure the pens can be tough. The tents here are not max. security. They are actually the County lock up. Most inmates are awaiting indictment and/or sentencing to another facility.

mattttt25 · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

jb- to answer your first post- a liberty given up then reinstated. how about alcohol and the prohibition period? for others- i disagree with most. i don't own a gun, but if i decided to purchase, i really don't care what the government requires from me. i don't care if they share the transaction records. why? because i have nothing to hide. i enjoy the freedoms and liberties this country gives me, but am willing to give a few to stay safe. keep the big picture and stop worrying so much. there's no conspiracy here.

mellowyellow · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

well done scoop! how much freedom (of information) do you think you really have right now? (govt.soft) and who do you think the people in power are really interested in gaining info about??? not some poor "no pot to pi$$ in" urban felon. it's the folks they can soak a few extra bucks off of. ok, let's rant! #1) why don't more people vote? we the people... #2) why would anyone ever run for public office and have their personal life's put on TV. #3) don't people realize that EDUCATION is the key? #4) how much does a pro football player/owner really need to make? more than a president? more than a teacher? for the sake of argument, let's say that the most anyone ever needs is 5 million a year to survive. if we did that, and took all that was left over from the super rich, it would fund everything.... education, housing, food... I'm not a liberal, I'm a pure capitalist! I own my own business, am a registered republican, and REALLY believe less gov't is better. I don't just vote on party, but platform more. sorry to be so long, it's been a slow day! regards, M.Y.

mattttt25 · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

MY- wouldn't you need a government to implement your plan to take away the money from all those who have earned it?

mellowyellow · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

who said anything about not needing a govt.? it's ranting dude... Take Shaq.give him 10 million and take the rest and feed/house/cloth/educate the entire block he grew up on for a year... what's the interest on 10 million per month alone? see, more ranting

) remember JB's intro.. peace, M.Y.

ebbtide176 · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

matttttt, for your question to MY: nope - just a gun

but seriously mattt, what you replied earlier concerning sharing transaction rcds- is what i was thinking also. i'm glad there are people here who seem to have really put up some good thoughts to ponder though, every bit of shared ideas helps.

mellowyellow · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

good one Ebb

it ain't never gonna happen, I know. too bad we don't have some real "leadership" somewhere in our govt. might get people to get off the couch and vote even.... what, 25% of registered voters "actually" vote? and all the folks who never even bothered to register. remember... it "WE" the people. life, liberty, and the pusuit of big fish (happiness) so what would you do Ebb (and y'all) if you had the power to change things????? regards, M.Y.

BassMan283 · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

by matttt

...because i have nothing to hide...

I'm hearing this a lot recently. About 65 or 70 years ago, a lot of Jews thought thye had nothing to hide. They found out that whether or not you have anything to hide really depends on who's looking.

SCO · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

I don't mean to agree with Matttt25, because I think the nothing to hide arguement is faulty, but in the years past(200 yrs past) people didn't have much to hide. We lived in smaller communities where everyone knew what everyone else was doing. Part of the problem here is the anonymity and complexity of todays society. That old social check no longer works as well, and the Gov. is stepping in. We need to take what we have learned and return to unicultural, but do it better this time.

snapperbait · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

I vote every election... The real problem is WHO to vote for, or do you vote for anyone at all.... How about a place on the ballot for "NONE OF THE ABOVE" and it takes away a vote from each candidate... If the candidates end up with a negative number of votes at the end of the election, then have no person fill the position... I don't go for the "lesser of the evils" garbage.. If none of the candidates meet my approval, I'll leave that spot on the ballot blank....I want someone in the office who is on the up & up... Most "Career Politicians" don't care one bit about John-Q-public....Their only interest is getting themselves Re-elected... They all have the "Special Interests" filling their wallets with rediculous amounts of cash, and untill we get some REAL campaign finance reform, our government will keep the status quo of B.S. ...

Fishbusters · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

Okay getting scary in here. We do need a better prison system I feel it should be based on making the prisoners work to support the prison. All expenses should be paid by the work/products the prison produces. No more free rides I think if you go to prison you work. I do not believe in not giving them good clothes but only at the rate the prison can afford. Luxuries should be thrown out the window. As far as pictures of a mans family they should be allowed but HBO on my tax money should not. Any extra funds after prisoner care, prison upkeep and expenses such as payroll should go into an account to fund other aspects of the justice system. I also feel if a man is found guilty in court all the costs of his trial ought to come from his personal pocket including garnishing wages after release till it is all paid back. As far as taking money from the rich that have worked hard to get it. That is just plain wrong. A man/woman ought to be able to get the most they can for what they do. If that means that The ball player can get 10mil then more power to him. Everyone has the same opurtunity to make to make the most you can but not everyone lives up to that potential. Look at Bill Gates and others that made thier money by using thier talents the same way as a pro ball player. Everyone can do it and are free to do it but only a few do. That is part of the freedoms that this country was established on and it should remain so.

DJ · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

Peter, I agree about the pens. The inmates at the "tent city" here are quite often seen participating in , "chain gangs". They're out there cleaning up the roads. They were also put to work making PVC pipe rat traps for the roof rat infestation we had in some areas. Sheriff Joe always seems to find something for them to do. "Builds character" he says. Any inmates without a high school education are "strongly" encouraged to earn a GED before they leave.

ebbtide176 · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

MY, i don't know what we can do other than pray, hope for the best, vote, and discuss options among peers. its a shame we can't all know everything about everyone and only have the very best, honest, considerate politicians in office. but you just can't be the best at everything, and i didn't have a stellar performance in all those political science classes long ago...

so i have to learn what i can now, depend on advice from others to help me, and just be good at what i can

you know- feeshin, husbandry, being a honeydo list handyman, listening- stuff i can handle

Scoop · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

Ebb, you got said it. While there are times we need to make sure we are the people behind the government, there are definitely times where we cannot afford to keep looking at the big picture and get depressed. We have to have balance and realize that we are raising or have raised the next generation. We contribute by being good people, good stewards of the land and doing the things that are important to our well being and mental health. One other thing. I am about to say something good about Bill Gates. Lately I have been impressed by what he and his wife Melinda are doing. He has that the amount of money he has would not be good to be passed down to his children. Instead his wife and him have created a foundation that is trying to improve the world as a whole. In a way it is Mellow Yellow's ideas come to life in a different fashion. This is true philanthropy in the old sense of the word. If you don't know what they are doing, check it out. It will be well worth your time. http://www.gatesfoundation.org/

derwood · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

I am A supporter of the death sentance. I also belive that it should only be handed down to a person that is convicted by DNA or eyewittness's (plural) so there is no doubt. If it's done on circumstancial evidence....No death penalty....I don't like circumstancial because there no prevision for the freak chance....and things like that do happen....and It could happen in just such a way that you may not be able to convince a jury of your peers otherwize....so thats how I feel about that. If they have ya with DNA or pepole saw ya do it and your caught....No doubt about it....Fry em... And I belive in the rope and chair.....the more scary it is for the pepole that may follow in his/her footsteps the better....Maybe a person would be detured by a death in the chair or a rope around the neck from the courthouse lawn....instead of just falling asleep and not getting up. I think there is starting to be to many jailhouse rights....you need to feed them....I think it was one of the guys in Pheonix that the prisnors were complaining about because he made them work in the garden for vegatables and gave them sandwitches to eat....they wanted hot food I guess was the problem. IT WAS FOOD....not bread and water....If they want to work out to get some exercise....let them work hard outside instead of spending 70,000$ on a workout gym so they can become bigger and stronger than all the prison guards and their next victom on the outside. If they have a tooth ache that has become bad...pull the tooth or do what you have to to fix the problem....I don't have a problem with them getting something done with a problem that is causeing them pain (unless it's a child raper)....they don't need cosmetic dental jobs done because they were born with crooked teeth and I sure don't want to pay for some crooks next gold tooth!!! I don't see the need for me to go and register all of my firearms....What good is it going to do for me to register my pistol if someone steals it....I register the theft with the police....they can't find my gun....someone gets shot with it and they come back to me so I can tell the homacide detective to go see the burglery detective so they can have coffie and dounuts while discussing why they are at a dead end even though I had registered my pistol like a good little boy. Na....let um prove beyond a shadow of a doubt who got shot by whom and how and why....they don't need me to tell them I own a gun to do that....and its better off like that because the harder they have to work for the evidence, the more iron clad it SHOULD be (I have to wince when I say that). Besides....It all starts with a drop of water....then before you can stop it your drownding in it. They have already started picking at the bill of rights and the constatution....if someone does'nt say "enough is enough" who will stop the ball rolling after it gets going to fast? I don't want to have to register my pocket knife with the government before I die....Its not because I have something to hide but because I desirve to live a life without the shadow of suspiction and mistrust over my head, giveing the power to the government to run every aspect of my life without giveing me a choice.....Thats why the British got sent back to england with their hats in their hands. To me, to be distrusted to the point of someone haveing to look over my shoulder always....without haveing done something to deserve it....is not being free but being treated like a crimanal without being proven guilty....not an American custom for sure. Derwood.

ob · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

How about ballistic evidence,fingerprints?Circumstantial evidence along with many other factors at times makes for a pretty solid case.Problem with even multiple eyewitness accounts is that multiple people are capable of concealing and revealing falsities if they have an agenda.Look at the inner city incident a few years back in L.A. in an eastern neighborhood where a family on vacation took a wrong turn and was rapid fired upon by "gangstas" killing some of the occupants and the neighbors saw nothing and heard nothing.I sure hate to think I'm going to be feeding and housing these two scumbags that were just arrested for these rash of murders in Virginia and Maryland because there are no eyewitnesses or DNA left at the scene.Fact is the ballistics do match in this case along with many other factors,and the only explaining these guys need to be doing is to their maker. There are some cases however where if there is no DNA or eye witness accounts that the case is pretty weak.But there are many others that are plenty solid without it. Just my take.

DJ · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

Watch and see. The DC "snipers" will get off. Any bets? If it's dragged out long enough, we tend to forget.

ob · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

If Cochran has anything to do with it ,He'll make them out to be victims of the oppressed system.It would be a suckers bet to wager that they'll go down for it.They'll keep them around long enough until hollywood can write some propaganda movie about it and make millions.

ebbtide176 · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

i believe in being hard on hard crime, and the need for swift justice. (i'm removing my other comments, i think they're too rough for most people)

John Carpenter · Nov 20, 2002

Re: Is security worth giving up some freedom?

Had the following e-mailed to me today out of the blue & thought it was at least sort of appropriate to the thread. > > > FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE > > > > > > 1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject. > > > > > > 2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone. > > > > > > 3. Glock: The original point and click interface. > > > > > > 4. Gun control is not about guns - it's about control. > > > > > > 5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords? > > > > > > 6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words. > > > > > > 7. Free men do not ask permission to bear arms. > > > > > > 8. If you don't know your rights you don't have any. > > > > > > 9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither. > > > > > > 10. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved. > > > > > > 11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand? > > > > > > 12. The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others. > > > > > > 13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday. > > > > > > 14. Guns only have two enemies: rust and liberals. > > > > > > 15. Know guns, know peace and safety. No guns, no peace nor safety. > > > > > > 16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive. > > > > > > 17. 911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer. > > > > > > 18. Assault is a behavior, not a device. > > > > > > 19. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs safer. > > > > > > 20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson. > > > > > > 21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control them. > > > > > > 22. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for. > > > > > > 23. Enforce the "gun control laws" we have, don't make more. > > > > > > 24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create slaves. > > > > > > 25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun control. > > > > > > 26. "...A government of the people, by the people, for the people..."

Is security worth giving up some freedom?

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