I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

[Tinkerer]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Originally posted by jtexas:<br /> <br />Sure the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill" but that didn't stop Joshua from fitting the battle of Jericho "and the walls came a-tumblin' down." Didn't put an end to capital punishment either, not even amongst those to whom the ten commandments were specifically addressed.<br />

Gotta say I burst out laughing when I saw Dubya on the news a couple of days ago saying of congressional intervention in the Terri Schiavo case something like "when there's doubt it's better to err on the side of life". <br /><br />This coming from a bloke who as Governor of Texas was the most enthusiastic user of the death penalty, when there have been plenty of cases showing for years that a good number of people convicted of capital crimes were wrongly convicted because of bad or dishonest police or prosecution work or utterly incompetent defence work. <br /><br />The death penalty must be an unwritten exlusion from "thou shalt not kill". Intrigues me how supporters of the death penaly are so often pro-life, anti-abortion, etc. If life is sacrosanct then it is in every case.

 

[theriver]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

The bible is a great little piece of fiction huh?<br />Lets all take it word for word like a bunch of idiots.

 

[jtexas]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Where you at, theriver? Reason I ask, being so near to the buckle on the Bible belt, I'm fairly surrounded by literalists. There's a lot of 'em that the word "idiot" don't apply to.<br /><br />Anyways, somebody whose opinion I respect said once (in a western civ class at a state university, believe it or not) that the Bible was written from an eastern perspective, in which actual facts are a far less important part of history than the lessons to be learned from it.<br /><br />Still you got to admire W, for his ability to compartmentalize, cognitive dissonance, whatever you want to call it. Irony is not dead!

 

[theriver]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

OK, idiot is too harsh. Lemming might be more appropriate.<br />Parents teach their kids, their kids know no different and before you know it, you have a new generation of followers. <br />People can't make conscious decisions.<br />Before they know it, they have a fish on their car, and are wearing t-shirts acting like Ned Flanders.

 

[Andrew Leigh]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Hi<br /><br />This post is in no ways a response to any posted above, although a "believer" I am not a practicing christian.<br /><br />However forgetting the spiritual context for the time being (the part so many debate) let's deal in the realm of facts rather than speculation. To infer the bible to be fairy tales or the like would infer that little basic research has been conducted. A little research will reveal that the bible is the oldest most accurate historical book around. The "data base" from which the bible has been constructed sets it apart of the commonly believed finest historical pieces but without due recognition.<br /><br />"Concerning New Testament manuscripts there are about 22,000 copies of manuscripts with at least partial contents of the New Testament. The closest ancient work next to the Bible is the Homer's Iliad (700?? BC), but it only has about 643 manuscripts. Such works as Aristotle (c. 340 BC) have only about five manuscripts for any one of his works, the earliest copy is dated about 1100 AD, about 1400 years after he lived and wrote his work. The history of Thucydides (c. 460-400 BC) has just eight manuscripts and the earliest copy is from about 900 AD. Pliny the Younger's History has only 7 copies, the earliest copy from about 850 AD. Plato's work has only 7 copies, the earliest from about 900 AD. Livy's work has only 20 copies. Contrariwise the New Testament manuscripts are about 22,000 in number, with one of the earliest (John Ryland MSS) dating from about 130 AD, about a century after Christ."<br /><br />Many years ago I happened to read a book by Josh McDowell, Evidence that Demands a Verdict, Vol 1 & Vol 2, 1979. It is an eyeopener.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Andrew

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

As I posted above, the commandment is "Thou shalt not Murder" according to the Jewish Virtual Library.<br /><br />Murder is defined as The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.<br /><br />There's a big difference between taking an innocent life and lawfully taking the life of criminal who has committed murder, or an enemy soldier at a time of war, or to protect yourself or others from being harmed.

 

[Terry H]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Ralph, personally I don't care how we justify killing people, it's still ain't right. Who are we to decide who needs killing. History bears this fact out. Chief

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Would you feel that way if some nut was coming after you with a gun? A solider was trying to kill you? A nut was about to harm your child? Would you have taken a shot at Hitler in 1941? Some people forfeit their lives by their actions. Those situations are known in advance by the perp.

 

[jtexas]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Originally posted by theriver:<br /> OK, idiot is too harsh. Lemming might be more appropriate.<br />Parents teach their kids, their kids know no different and before you know it, you have a new generation of followers. <br />People can't make conscious decisions.<br />Before they know it, they have a fish on their car, and are wearing t-shirts acting like Ned Flanders.

"Ned Flanders and the Lemmings"<br />Sounds like a good name for a rock & roll band! <br /><br />Hey Ralph, you trying to confuse us with facts or something?

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Just trying to point out that the two positions are not necessarily inconsistent. However, being in favor of taking innocent lives while being against taking the lives of the lawfully condemned does seem perverse.

 

[mikeandronda]

Re: I Wish People Wouldn't Flaunt Their Religion

Ok here is my understanding.....now mind you Im no scholar, nor do I know how to read hebrew or latin but I know that there are times in the Bible that god has commanded his people to wage war. War and murder are two totally different things. Its my understanding that the orignal writtings of the ten comandments are not thou shall not kill but more along the line of thou shall not murder. But becuase hebrew words have dual meanings often it is translated to kill. Makes sense to me anyway.