hull extension in progress with pics

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

no turning back now Ward!

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

lol....awesome mike !

ok.....got the bilge liner up and running again.....

it was my semi annual points and condensor go-round


i ran the bilgeliner to the lake and the prop seems fine.

so i ran the big boat up on the hose with out the prop and no vibration?
so the vibration seems to be only under load?????
now im getting really confused.

i have to get the carb running better before i can run the boat back out. it was having a bad drop out at 2k thru 3k and is still burning rich.
i think the jets are still too big they are 74's in the front and 66's in the back. im going to go to the motor rebuilders and see what they say for the size of the jets.

 

[avimgod]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

lol....awesome mike !

ok.....got the bilge liner up and running again.....

it was my semi annual points and condensor go-round


i ran the bilgeliner to the lake and the prop seems fine.

so i ran the big boat up on the hose with out the prop and no vibration?
so the vibration seems to be only under load?????
now im getting really confused.

i have to get the carb running better before i can run the boat back out. it was having a bad drop out at 2k thru 3k and is still burning rich.
i think the jets are still too big they are 74's in the front and 66's in the back. im going to go to the motor rebuilders and see what they say for the size of the jets.

Ward,

Excelent read here... tons of info...

As to your engine vibration.. didn't you say this is a VAN engine converted over for use on the boat? When teh motor was built was the rotating assy dymanicly balanced, or are you using the origional harmonic balancer?

Your harmonic balancer MIGHT be shot as you are only getting the vibration when the motor is under load, or your motor MIGHT have some other issues (rod or main bearings out of tollerance)...

the RA CAN be balanced to reduce the need for a harmonic damper, BUT for comfort sake the Harmonic balancer could still be needed..

It is common practice to remove the HB on a racing application to further reduce the weight of the rotating assy, but this comes at the cost of shorter rebuild intervals (which are not usually a concern for a race team...)

I would look at your motors ballancer / damper first, THEN look to the outdrive for a bad bearing or shim stackup... if the ballancer and drive check out good (I like the idea of swapping the drive on the BL for troubleshooting) then look internal to the motor for crank end play or excess bearing runout...

But then I am sure this is stuff you guys already know!

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

lol....i was responding to your thread when you were typing the above

thanks for the info.
the 350 was built for me and a cube van. it was a high horsepower motor with a rv cam.....the cam and the marine cam are very close and i was told by the builder that the motor would be just great in the boat.

the motor did not have any vibration problems in the van application...in fact it was smooth as silk when i drove it over to the yard where we pulled the motor. previous vibrations caused by an incorrect flywheel also had me look at the harmonic balance and it seems to be good.

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

not to sound stupid or imply anything on your part....but you did change the freeze out plugs, right ??

 

[avimgod]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

lol....i was responding to your thread when you were typing the above

thanks for the info.
the 350 was built for me and a cube van. it was a high horsepower motor with a rv cam.....the cam and the marine cam are very close and i was told by the builder that the motor would be just great in the boat.

the motor did not have any vibration problems in the van application...in fact it was smooth as silk when i drove it over to the yard where we pulled the motor. previous vibrations caused by an incorrect flywheel also had me look at the harmonic balance and it seems to be good.

Not much difference between turck and RV cams and Marine cams, biggest difference with the marine series are total lack of overlap between intake and exhaust to prevent the intake stroke happening with the exhaust valves open..

Your engine SHOULD be fine as is, but the vibration could be due to the loading on the engine now vs when it was in the van, you are putting more strain on it as the marine use is a constant high load demand vs the normal low load demand in the van... I am almost willing to bet your vibration is crank related, but can't rule out the outdrive without swapping it into a known good boat...

Good luck on a quick and cheap fix... I know it has been a long time coming!

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

not to sound stupid or imply anything on your part....but you did change the freeze out plugs, right ??

actually no....the frost plugs were never adderssed.

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Not much difference between turck and RV cams and Marine cams, biggest difference with the marine series are total lack of overlap between intake and exhaust to prevent the intake stroke happening with the exhaust valves open..

Your engine SHOULD be fine as is, but the vibration could be due to the loading on the engine now vs when it was in the van, you are putting more strain on it as the marine use is a constant high load demand vs the normal low load demand in the van... I am almost willing to bet your vibration is crank related, but can't rule out the outdrive without swapping it into a known good boat...

Good luck on a quick and cheap fix... I know it has been a long time coming!

the reason i built that motor was to take very heavy loads up major hills so im not to worried about the engines capeability to handle it....i just hope the vibration isnt crank related.....
my thinking is if it is....the vibration would be constant thru the acceleration curve.

but i gotta admit...im stumped....im allmost thinking coupler

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Trim tabs?

good possibility that the boat will need them......i have rarly seen a 25 footer without them
with the carb crapping out at 2k acceleration tests and planing tests were impossible to do.

im hoping to get the carb repaired asap.

 

[avimgod]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

the reason i built that motor was to take very heavy loads up major hills so im not to worried about the engines capeability to handle it....i just hope the vibration isnt crank related.....
my thinking is if it is....the vibration would be constant thru the acceleration curve.

but i gotta admit...im stumped....im allmost thinking coupler

Did you ever get the chance to mount the big boat outdrive to the BL?

Coupler COULD do it, as could engine mounts, but I was under the assumption you replaced both parts with new when the engine went in?

Is your flywheel housing supported, or just the motor?

Also does the vibration change with drive trim?

just trying to think outloud (think-type???) ...

My current setup (verified visually yesterday) is engine supported, bell housing (flywheel housing) is NOT supported, but I am thinking I will engineer some sort of bell support to add in for beter engine support... dont want to see that thing go anywhere... OR am I off my rocker as I have been trying to soak up everything I can about these damn holes in the water we throw money into...

funny story, one of my cars is currently parked... annoying oil leak, only presented itself durring high load, high boost driving (read wide open throttle in 4th and 5th gear).. cause of oil leak... rear main seal on engine ONLY leaking when crank moves under high load AND crankcase is presurized by #3 cyl blowby... all other time the car is a dream to drive... no oil leaks if I drive her like it was someone elses car...

your vibration source is tied (I suspect) to engine load and drive angle more than anything else, engine load without regard to drive angle makes me lean to crankshaft... engine load AND drive angle makes me lean to between the crank and the prop (coupler, flywheel, a bad mount, bad bearing..etc..etc..)

but I could be wrong...

BTW I am only 20 feet and had trim tabs installed when boat was being repaired from an accident (18YO girl ran into the side of the boat, on the trailer, with her RANGE ROVER... 3K in damage to the boat, her truck was TOTALED, she had no insurance... wanna bet I NEVER see a penny of the 3K I paid to fix it?)

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

good possibility that the boat will need them......i have rarly seen a 25 footer without them
with the carb crapping out at 2k acceleration tests and planing tests were impossible to do.

im hoping to get the carb repaired asap.

i may have a full trim tabs setup for you....the boat i'm buying for the gimble stuff has a set on them...hydraulic pump and the old style trim joystick controls...no battery in the boat, so i haven't tested them....but i'll keep you posted

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

i didnt get a chance to swap out the drives yet.....but i did investigate the vibration with the motor builders....they are of course only guessing.....however they said a crank vibration will be all thru the acelleration curve and noticeable at lower rpms...

the boat just sits there and rocks like a mean 350 with a cam !

as far as the flywheel cover.....it is supported (and sitting) on the inside transom support. and the actual motor mounts are firmly in solid wood with about 10 layers of fiberglass over them.....lol

the engine coupler was not new.....but was in good condition however it was a bugger to bolt on.....the gimbal berring was new and the motor alignment was perfect.....however when the drive comes off i will recheck it.


i also investigated the carb problem.....the 66 front and 74 rear jets are perfect for the carb,,,,i was told there is a float bowl problem....just needing adjustment.

i want to try the drive swap tommorow and then re test both boats......but in a dry land run up yesterday the prop shaft looked normal with out any shimmy.

 

[redfury]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I'll add my two cents of experience with drivetrain noises...had one with a weird noise that only presented itself at a certain RPM. It literally sounded like a solenoid clicked and the noise started. Ended up being improperly tightened bolts from the engine to the transmission....3 of the 4 of them actually. My mom's truck had a vibration problem that ended up being loose torque converter bolts....

Check your bolts for proper torque! Something may have loosened up just enough to get you to scratchin' your head.

You haven't didn't run over anything with the boat while you were out there did ya?
http://www.ifish.net/board/showthread.php?t=226736

 

[ondarvr]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Maybe you should change direction and turn it into an outboard now.

 

[oops!]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Maybe you should change direction and turn it into an outboard now.

thats not a bad idea !.....triple 225's id gain another 4 feet of deck space...

but how would you go about making wheelie bars for a boat?

 

[ondarvr]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

All you need to do is bolt on a bracket. I think triple 225s would be overkill, twin 300s would be fine.

 

[legoman67]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

sweet, you finally got the beast on the water! awesome work! When you are ready to put it through more of a test bring it to the coast and take it for a nip across the straight...

pictures of projects hitting the water always give me bits of modivation to get ours done, unfortunatly, it doesnt help my wallet out at all...lol

 

[Darren Nemeth]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Ooops!

Take the photos, info and compile it all into a website for posterity (or until the account is closed lol).

 

[JaSla74]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

I can't believe I actually forgot about this thread What a surprise to come and find water test pics. Nicely done sir. I look forward to the finished product.

 

[fixb52s]

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Re: hull extension in progress with picks

Ward, I have been thinking about this vibration problem and might have missed it, but is this engine a 350 or was it converted to a 383 with a 400 crank? If it has been stroked with the 400 parts the problem could lie there since it would need to be externally balanced. If indeed it is the "normal" internally balanced 350, then as stated before, it could be something as simple as a harmonic balancer. Chasing vibrations can sure wear one out.