Going electric vs marinas

[Stinnett21]

Man, everyone is working on electric power for the future. I see where tax incentives will be offered in the future for non-on the road vehicles, i.e. boats, RVs, aircraft, etc. Just wondering, how would this affect marinas? They would have to have charging stations. This would eat up a lot more space as charging takes much longer than a fuel stop. On land it seems this space is much easier to come by. But finding the real estate on the shoreline would be much more difficult it seems to me. Just throwing this out there.

 

[GA_Boater]

Why shoreline? Many slips in a marina already have power and the engineers can have built-in onboard chargers to use slip power to use for charging. It would be no different than buying an electric car and home charging station except the charger is isn't in the garage.

 

[Captain Caveman]

My assumption is that he is talking about re-charging a boat in transit from Point A to Point B, not just charging in a slip at the end of the day.

On the big inland lake where I boat, most resorts have a slip or two at the end of the docs next to a gas pump. If you have to charge multiple boats over a period of time, they would need more slips and space available for charging boats.

 

[racerone]

Many folks are unaware of how much power / amperage is required to charge these batteries on newer vehicles.-----Not sure if any marina would invest in the systems to charge up boats.----Often with even bigger power demands than modern cars.----I am too old but a barge with a couple of big generators and a place to sit and have a drink would be my way of making some coins.----Just anchor in the middle of the lake and have the money roll in.

 

[Stinnett21]

My assumption is that he is talking about re-charging a boat in transit from Point A to Point B, not just charging in a slip at the end of the day.

On the big inland lake where I boat, most resorts have a slip or two at the end of the docs next to a gas pump. If you have to charge multiple boats over a period of time, they would need more slips and space available for charging boats.

Yes this is what I was thinking of. Just everyday boating traffic. I suppose on one hand, at least for those who trailer, "gassing up" before you leave the house becomes much easier. I like your idea racerone. The charging barge would be a destination of sort. Use most of your juice going out, the rest going back. Just hope a generator doesn't go down ha.

 

[72fj40]

I wonder how heavy is the battery going to be?

 

[matt167]

Electric boats exist and power is available. The catch is, 30a or better of 220v is really required for most electric charging, which is beyond most shore power capacity, especially when that is generally one outlet

 

[poconojoe]

Just get a sailboat....
Electricity for charging cars/boats doesn't magically come out of thin air. Some of those young ignorant people just don't realize this.
Plus producing and disposal of those batteries is hazardous.

 

[racerone]

Folks do not know much about electricity / power.-----I worked at a generating station.-----I ask folks what HP they think is needed to turn just 1 generator.-----Many different answers with the most common guess being 10,000 HP.---When I tell them it takes 1,000,000 HP it simply blows folks away.----Therefor I say that the public just does not know !

 

[poconojoe]

Folks do not know much about electricity / power.-----I worked at a generating station.-----I ask folks what HP they think is needed to turn just 1 generator.-----Many different answers with the most common guess being 10,000 HP.---When I tell them it takes 1,000,000 HP it simply blows folks away.----Therefor I say that the public just does not know !

Yeah, try doing that with a windmill!

 

[Scott06]

Electric boats exist and power is available. The catch is, 30a or better of 220v is really required for most electric charging, which is beyond most shore power capacity, especially when that is generally one outlet

My dads tesla take 70 amps for the fast charger. When they visit it is an overnight charge from my 20 A 220v compressor outlet. So they defintiely would have to upgrade service and distribution. Just like with cars as they become more prevalent the charging services will follow.

 

[Scott Danforth]

some marinas will embrace it. however mostly for larger vessels. these larger vessels also will have extended stays. having 100amp shore power available it not the problem. it will be the large fees associated with it.

many yachts now days are being built as a hybrid. the latest Royal Huisman will have both an on-board diesel generator and a battery room that is aproximately 15' x 20' full of batteries from floor to ceiling with an inverter the size of a small car

the cost of mooring your vessel will no longer be $10/foot, however closer to $100 per foot.

my normal boating is about 150+ miles at a crack. with short trips being 30 miles. doesnt make sense for me to have an electric boat right now.

Plus, I cant in good conscious support something that can not be fully recycled. right now EV battery recycling is not widely supported and is extremely costly. there is no good method of recycling e-waste.

 

[poconojoe]

I remember Jacque Cousteau's turbo-sail boat. I was working at pier 17 in manhattan many years ago and that boat along with the Calipso had docked at the next pier. It was a celebration for Jacque's birthday. It was probably the early 80's. I think he was 72.

Anyway, the boat had two towers that had vertical openings and rotated to collected the wind which ran on-board generators. The faster the boat went, the more wind it collected. Pretty innovative for the time.
For those who didn't know, Jacque Cousteau was the inventor of scuba gear.

Turbosail – Cousteau

www.cousteau.org

 

[mr 88]

Don't think we will see many electric boats in our lifetime . If the price of E cars is through the roof and I just read in the paper that when the Gov took away the tax/rebate the sales plummeted. E cars are by and large subsided by the Gov [ will they do that with boats ? ] So your 25' boat that cost 80-100,000 is now 150,000 + , average Joe's pockets are not that deep especially if you have a 4-5 month season . Not sure about weight of set up vs petro powered . I read about the mileage and then ask someone who has one and the advertised vs reality is off by about 25+%. So now I want to go off shore fishing , forgetaboutit , 30 mile round trip , that may be questionable as well . Were talking a whole different ball game as far as drag and hull weight go vs a car rolling on a total of about 48" of hard rubber on a hard surface . You have to be burning more amps in a boat by a long shot . Semi's are rolling with 350-450 hp all day long , 27' boats require in most cases twin V8s producing at least 500 hp and that's just the beginning hp wise. So until they come out with E Semi's I don't see it happening on a large scale on the water. Boats are a whole different animal as far as E goes IMHO. Sorry for the ramble .and BTW they produce more carbon monoxide producing one E batteries than 1 fossil burning car will emit in it's life time.

 

[dingbat]

So until they come out with E Semi's I don't see it happening on a large scale on the water.

Redirect Notice

 

[poconojoe]

Seems like a serious safety issue if you run out of battery power. You would be stranded and let's not forget what would happen in high seas with no power. You'd easily get swamp.
You would need a gas or diesel engine to supplement that electric motor and a kicker may not be enough to fight the seas.

A few years back, Chevy had (I think it was called the volt), which had a small gas engine that only ran a generator to charge the batteries. The engine wasn't used to drive the wheels. Seemed like a good idea.

 

[mr 88]

Redirect Notice

Got me ! Now , my point was 2 E engines / drag /amp hours used with a full load on the 2 E engines vs maybe 25% load on a single E-engine semi rolling on cement and the run time of the batteries on land vs water. My cost comparison may be way off based on our city buying 10 E busses @ 1 million per. Diesel bus was 450,000 . So if one E engine adds 550,000 to the cost ,what does 2 which would be needed per boat add ? My analogy of a E car [ not a commercial vehicle ] vs a E boat , car would be like turning your radio on all day with car off. E Boat would be like trying to start your 502's with the spark disengaged , constantly cranking it [ lets say there is no overheat issue with the starter in this case for discussion sake ] , how long [ minutes ] before that brand new freshly charged battery is stone cold dead in each case ? Now add all the " negative" replies and I just don't see it being applicable in the boating field for a long long time .

 

[roscoe]

A few years back, Chevy had (I think it was called the volt), which had a small gas engine that only ran a generator to charge the batteries. The engine wasn't used to drive the wheels. Seemed like a good idea.

Certainly NOT a good edea.
Any time, and EVERY time, that you convert energy from one for to another, you lose, through friction, heat, inefficient burn, etc.
Internal combustion engines are terribly inefficient.
But have one big advantage - fast refueling with an easily transported and stored fuel source.

 

[matt167]

Certainly NOT a good edea.
Any time, and EVERY time, that you convert energy from one for to another, you lose, through friction, heat, inefficient burn, etc.
Internal combustion engines are terribly inefficient.
But have one big advantage - fast refueling with an easily transported and stored fuel source.

That actually depends. For instance, Diesel electric locomotives operate this way, and have for a very long time

 

[Lowlysubaruguy]

Man, everyone is working on electric power for the future. I see where tax incentives will be offered in the future for non-on the road vehicles, i.e. boats, RVs, aircraft, etc. Just wondering, how would this affect marinas? They would have to have charging stations. This would eat up a lot more space as charging takes much longer than a fuel stop. On land it seems this space is much easier to come by. But finding the real estate on the shoreline would be much more difficult it seems to me. Just throwing this out there.

Electric Boats at least a modest % of the boats produced are quite a ways off from making any impact. If it ever does happen and there comparable price range it will for sure be worth the investment by marinas to charge them so thats not going to be a huge factor.

The real issue is making a boat with enough range that is priced low enough to be in the market value. But theres other factors that will help that come to light. Larger boats that would easily run $400 or more a weekend to operate will cost 1/4 to 1/3 of that even at Marina charging rates so you can take a $75K boat and charge $110K for it and its the same money. Now if this boats trailered home and could be charged at home the charge costs would be 1/2 of that rate or less. The moment they can safely give a 26 foot ocean designed hull a range of 200 miles the electric platform will flat out have a huge following. Now your $250K boat saves you $100K plus in fuel over its life and imagine you running 80 MPH v 50 MPH in that boat if the ocean allowed it because the power an electric motor will produce v a gas is huge.


Electric vehicles are going to take over and fast the second two or three contenders ( which are already overseas) hit US soil at $25k these are nice cars there fast as all get out and a typical owner will save $15K or more ove a gas car on fuel and service costs at 150,000 miles making that brand new car $10 without any rebates or tax credits.

Owning an electric car I’d buy an electric boat in a nano second if it had the range and ride of a comparable boat. The number one thing people talk to me about with concerns is range anxiety. Which isnt a factor unless you dont plan your trip out and dont look at your battery charge. Its really no different than knowing if you have enough gas for your trip. My larger boat has a range of 300 to 350 miles it’s rare I’d go 50 miles offshore with less than 200 miles or more of fuel in the tank. but I’d do so in a EB that had a full charge and had proven itself to have a 200 mile range. Now compare fuel v electricity for a 100 mile round trip. $240 in gas $25 at home maybe $80 at a marina if there high

My car i can make 200 mile trip for $5 in electricity and drive 85 or 110 if the moment arises ( I’m just making a point) a gas car that gets 25 MPG $26 thats enough to think about a boat fuel bill of $400 v $75