Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

we should get the USCG circular into the adults only stickies

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I didn't catch that the tank had been painted, but the paint came off w/ the foam.

As foamed tanks go that have foam showing water intrusion, that tank still looks pretty good. Perhaps Formula did a better job then most protecting the tank at original install. Not an easy choice, leaving it or pulling it. Good luck either way............

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Hey Ted! I just noticed who the author of this thread was and thought I'd pop in for a looky see. I've been wondering if you were ever going to do anything substantial about these problems besides your "white witchcraft" with the holes, antifreeze, vacuum cleaner, and heaters.




1. Since the rot in your stringers seems to be in small isolated areas, I would "skin" (cut and remove) the fiberglass off of the area with a decent lap on to good wood, then I would drill out the rot with something like a 1" auger bit in a "honeycomb" pattern. Let the wood dry and fill in the voids with a thin epoxy like the USComposites 635, let cure and then glass everything back in.

2. The fuel tank dilemma is a booger bear! Wet foam/trapped water against unprotected aluminum causes galvanic corrosion... and that aint good! I also suggest removing the tank and painting it, then reinstall with a 4 lb. density expanding urethane foam. The 4 lb. foam is much more water resistant than the 2 lb. density.

I don't know if you've already seen this or not, but it's a USCG circular on Underwriter Laboratories research and testing of below deck metallic fuel tanks:
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/pdf/recalls/BSC79.pdf

Hey, JnG, Welcome aboard my thread.

Based on what I found this past weekend, I can see why my previous efforts to dry out the structure had little effect. I am thinking that the fuel tank is the central issue in that it separated from the foam. The small gap between the fuel tank and the foam probably allowed water from the daily condensation cycle to seep into the foam more readily than it normally would. Combine that with the issues that I found on the inside face of the bulkhead and there you have it.

It is looking like the foam used on the tank is the 4 lb or the 8 lb density. If the tank has separated from the foam in a fair amount of its surface area, then I can probably 'pop' it out pretty easily . . . once I get the helm seat assembly and the deck hatch removed.

By contrast . . . on my F-242, the foam had a death grip on the tank and it took 2 weeks of chipping and prying to get it to 'pop' out. the foam actually separated from the hull and not the tank.

i'll have to look at my 'schedule' for Spring maintenance and prep work to see about doing the tank in addition to the bulkhead. Something that I had not quite planned on . . .

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I didn't catch that the tank had been painted, but the paint came off w/ the foam.

As foamed tanks go that have foam showing water intrusion, that tank still looks pretty good. Perhaps Formula did a better job then most protecting the tank at original install. Not an easy choice, leaving it or pulling it. Good luck either way............

Yes, I was surprised the tank looked as good as it appears, but there is still the underside that has yet to be seen.

It always seems that there is more to an issue than you expect once you 'open things up'. A nice thing about this forum is that you can get comments and ideas from others, which enhances the thought process. So, I am thinking that the thing to do is to take the tank out (and pray that it is in OK shape). That way, I can re-paint and re-foam the tank and hopefully get it back to the way it should be.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

hopefully get it back to the way it should be.

Always a great plan ^^^

It's always hard to see how many choose to go another route.

As before, good luck

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

OK, now that I have pretty much decided to remove the fuel tank for some refurbishment and re-installation . . . I will have access to a fair amount of the structure during that time, and probably consider some of the other things that have been on my agenda for the boat.

Specifically, I could:

Stiffen up the hull by either bonding the cockpit sole to the stringer grid or some other method ( :noidea: ) . . . even though Formula said it was not necessary. I'm thinking that 'twisting' of the hull may have contributed to some extent the separation of the foam and fuel tank. So, maybe a bit 'stiffer' would be better.

Add some flotation . . . my previous estimates of the foam/flotation in the boat put the boat a bit sort in terms of foam/flotation. (my previous thread on the subject: http://forums.iboats.com/boat-topic...s/positive-flotation-bigger-boats-587093.html ) So, maybe I could add some foam blocks in various areas of the structure, since I will have access. :noidea:

Along with a general clean-up of mold, etc. in the places that I will be able to access during the tank work, anything else that I should consider???

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

now is the time to add built in floor coolers, or conduit runs for things like heater cores, etc.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Things to consider...

1.) World Peace...
2.) Universal Health Care
3.) Early Retirement
4.) 100% All composite Boats
5.) What do Women REALLY WANT???
6.) Who REALLY shot Kennedy?
7.) Did we REALLY walk on the Moon?
8.) Where does the Wind come from?
9.) Why can you only find 1 Sock?
10.) Why is Ice Cream in a Dish called a Sundae instead of a Saturday?

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Things to consider...

1.) World Peace...
2.) Universal Health Care
3.) Early Retirement
4.) 100% All composite Boats
5.) What do Women REALLY WANT???
6.) Who REALLY shot Kennedy?
7.) Did we REALLY walk on the Moon?
8.) Where does the Wind come from?
9.) Why can you only find 1 Sock?
10.) Why is Ice Cream in a Dish called a Sundae instead of a Saturday?

Yes, what I meant to ask was anything else to consider beyond those ten obvious things . . .

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Oh Man....Thats ALL I Got!!!!
I LOVE reading your Thread! You're so creative in your thinking and SOOOOOOO optimistic and patient. Me...I'da ripped that thing down to the bones and prolly destroyed more than needed just to say "Look what I Did!!!!!!" Then I woulda "OKIEFIED" something back in place that "MIGHTA" worked and been back on the water a LOOOOOOOONG time ago. I R.E.S.P.E.C.T. (Aretha Franklin) guys like you Ted!!!! You keep guys like me fom screwin EVERYTHING UP!!!!:faint2:

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Thanks . . . Yea, I don't have the facilities or equipment to 'rip this thing down to the bones', since it is a 33 footer. However, I will be exposing a few 'bones' of the structure once the fuel tank comes out. 'Repair' work is a bit different than 'Restoration' work. So, you have to figure things out as you go, based on what you find. This forum is great in that regard, for getting input to one's 'creativity' . . .

I'm not sure if we have seen structural repairs on a 30+ foot boat on this forum ??? . . . but if anyone has a recollection or a link to a thread, my clicking fingers await, as I would like to see what others have done in terms of 'bigger' boat repairs.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I think you, Zool, GWPSR, tboner7864 & bigdirty are the only 'big' glass boat builds I can think of. Except your's, they are all sub 30ft, and are mostly gut & rebuild.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

I think you, Zool, GWPSR, tboner7864 & bigdirty are the only 'big' glass boat builds I can think of. Except your's, they are all sub 30ft, and are mostly gut & rebuild.

Yup, those guys (along with myself) are probably the bigger of the boats doing repair/resto work on iBoats. Mostly 28 foot +/- cruisers from 1970's - 80's vintage. I did find via Googling some threads on various forums of 30-35 foot boats (of various brands) with structural issues (wet & rot). Some of them were not that old (2004). The threads that I have found so far are mostly showing/describing the issue . . . still looking for some threads/articles that cover the associated repair work.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

A Quick Update:

My next opportunity to work on the boat will probably be the MLK Day holiday this coming weekend. My plan is to shift my attention towards removing the deck hatch in the cockpit sole in order to expose the entire fuel tank bay. I will need to disassemble and remove the dual helm seat so that I can get to the deck hatch.

Once I have full access to the fuel tank bay, I can check the entire perimeter of the tank to see how much of the foam has separated from the tank. I suspect it may be quite extensive, given that it appears to be an issue with the paint adhesion . . . unless the paint adhesion issue is localized.

Anyway, I'm not sure how much of the dis-assembly work that I will get done in one day, but we shall see.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Helm Seat Removal:

I spent some more time yesterday working on the boat . . . got the helm seat removed and opened up the deck hatch to view and inspect the fuel tank bay. The helm seat covers the forward starboard corner of the deck hatch, so it has to come out.

First the helm seat:

I found some documentation on the Internet on how to remove the helm seat. There are some screws located under the cup holders that hold the seat assembly to the sidewall. The screws merely hold the seat assembly down onto two retaining clips.



Then there are 4 bolts on the base of the seat. There is also some wiring for courtesy lights that gets disconnected.




Once the screws and bolts are removed, the seat assembly pulls away from the floor and wall of the cockpit.



I turned the seat assembly on end just to see if I could further disassemble it in order to get it out of the boat in several pieces. I would estimate that the seat assembly weighs 250-300 lbs.



After a while, I found a way to separate the seat portion from the backrest and base assembly, making it more manageable to remove.



So I was able (barely) to get the helm set out of the boat in two pieces.

Here is a video of the day, starting with the seat removal: F 330 Bulkhead Helm Seat Removal - YouTube

I have the seat pieces stored in the garage for the duration of the project. With the seat assembly removed, I could now start to remove the deck hatch, which would expose the fuel tank bay.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Deck Hatch Removal:

Once I had the helm seat out of the boat, I could fully access the deck hatch. It covers most of the cockpit floor.


There are screws and caulking that hold the deck hatch into place. So, it was a matter of unscrewing everything and cutting the caulking.



After the deck hatch was unfastened, I lifted the hatch from one side. It too was fairly heavy, more so that I was hoping for. I will have to get a helper in order to lift it out of the boat.



However, with the fuel tank bay exposed, I was able to get a a better look at the tank and the foam adhesion. The front face of the tank seemed to be in fairly decent shape, in terms of the foam and paint adhesion. The foam did not pull the paint off of the tank. However on the port side of the tank, the paint came right off with the foam, as I removed some pieces.



The port rear corner of the tank had a visible and fairly large separation between the tank and the foam. It looks as though the foam has shrunk in that area, pulling away from the tank and creating the gap that you can see in the picture below. There was also similar evidence of separation on the starboard side.



Here is a video of the deck hatch removal and preliminary inspection of the fuel tank bay and the foam adhesion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-naizJCrJpE

At this point it is a matter of seeing how easily the tank will come out, given that it has separated from the foam at the rear and along the sides of the tank. First, I will have to remove the waste tank, pump out the few gallons of fuel that remain in the tank, and disconnect the hoses and wiring.

It will probably be a couple of weeks until I can get back to it, as I am heading to Florida for a few days . . . not sure how warm it will be there, with this 'polar vortex' thing going on and giving the southern US state a big chill.

 

[alldodge]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

If anyone can say one thing about Formula is they do make a heavy boat. As your pulling the foam away from the sides if you find it is localized to just the one or two areas, may decide to rethink the total removal. If the tank is held in solid except for the couple areas maybe prime, paint and re-foam.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

If anyone can say one thing about Formula is they do make a heavy boat. As your pulling the foam away from the sides if you find it is localized to just the one or two areas, may decide to rethink the total removal. If the tank is held in solid except for the couple areas maybe prime, paint and re-foam.

Since there is water present in the foam at the lower rear portion of the tank bay, I definitely want to remove the tank from the boat in order to do a complete inspection for corrosion on the tank, etc., then re-paint the tank. I'm not sure how much foam will come with the tank versus how much will stay with the boat, or what will be salvageable. I'll just have to see once I have the tank out.

Here is what the tank of my F-242SS looked like when I pulled it out. I chipped away most of the foam from the sides, but the foam on the bottom came with the tank (which is a good thing) I am expecting with the 330SS tank, much less foam will actually come with the tank, due to the paint separation issue.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Have you decided on what you will be painting the tank with yet?

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Formula 330SS Bulkhead Replacement

Have you decided on what you will be painting the tank with yet?

I am thinking about epoxy paint of some sort. I do have a gallon of Interprotect barrier coat left over from when I prepped the hull. It is a 2 part epoxy paint, so maybe I could use that.

EDIT: I just check the interlux web site and the product information says that it can be used as a primer for all metal surfaces . . . so maybe I can go with the Interprotect. Adhesion is the key thing that I am looking for.