Formula 27PC Transom Work

[Woodonglass]

You guys Might want to take a look at this...

http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Fuel-Tan...-Kit_p_62.html


And this...

http://yachtsurvey.com/fueltank.htm

it should be noted that the USCG regs only apply to MFG's not to Home restorations. That's NOT to say we shouldn't pay attention to them, only that we are NOT held to those standards. The article above is a Great method for installing a Tank. I'm NOT a fan of foaming a tank unless it's primed and Painted with multiple coats of a quality barrier paint/coating. Condensation WILL occur and corrosion WILL follow. Mounting it in a way that allows the free flowing of air is a much better Method, IMHO. But Hey, I'm just an Old Dumb Okie so take it for what it's worth!!!

 

[tpenfield]

You guys Might want to take a look at this...

http://www.por15.com/POR-15-Fuel-Tan...-Kit_p_62.html


And this...

http://yachtsurvey.com/fueltank.htm

it should be noted that the USCG regs only apply to MFG's not to Home restorations. That's NOT to say we shouldn't pay attention to them, only that we are NOT held to those standards. The article above is a Great method for installing a Tank. I'm NOT a fan of foaming a tank unless it's primed and Painted with multiple coats of a quality barrier paint/coating. Condensation WILL occur and corrosion WILL follow. Mounting it in a way that allows the free flowing of air is a much better Method, IMHO. But Hey, I'm just an Old Dumb Okie so take it for what it's worth!!!

Zool used the POR15 for his tank. I used some Interlux Interprotect 2000 (cuz I had some in hand). Florida Marine Tanks is going to do the painting/coating in this case, so it should arrive ready to go.

IMO, Foamimg in tanks is advisable when the strength of the hull structure is relying on the tank being foamed in. I do not think AD's PC27 is relying too much on the foam & tank for strength . . . but you never know. Cruisers typically do not rely on the tank installation for strength, whereas sport boats, cuddy cabins and go-fast boats are more apt to rely on a foamed-in tank for strength.

 

[alldodge]

Thanks WOG I appreciate all thoughts on the subject, I'm no expert. Might be a tad bit closer to the expert side when I get done, one or two baby steps. I tried to use POR on a Cushman Truckster's tank I was dabbling with. It didn't turn out very well, guess I didn't follow the instructions very well. Don't really want to try it on this with all the trouble I had getting the thing out.

Ted, I do think the tank and foam is used for structure because all they have forward of the engine stringers is 3/4 ply wood. Just about everywhere is a single piece of 3/4 glassed half way up (sure wish they would have at least used resin all the way up). Just finished getting most all the foam out, will post pic a bit later (shop computer). Thoughts?

 

[Scott Danforth]

I used to be pro POR 15 products until the paint pealed off my outdrive in sheets (and I had the castings bead blasted). I had been using POR 15 products for years without an issue, however the last two times I used POR 15 products, the paint has failed (the outdrive and my last truck restoration)

the best epoxy is by far Enecon. Its what is used by the US navy to coat ships, the inside of their heat exchangers, and to rebuild shafting while at sea. We use it for chemical containers and items that see salt water often.

 

[Mikeopsycho]

Yup, a new tank is my vote. I replaced both my water and fuel tanks with new custom built aluminum tanks. I priced out plastic which was way more expensive than aluminum because off-the-shelf tanks were not available in the sizes I needed. Also, no baffles in the plastic tanks.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Time to go to school here i have a older boat alum tank and was set on a Moeller replacement why alum tank....baffling?????

http://www.moellermarine.com/oem/fuel_tanks/fuel-tanks/

 

[alldodge]

Foam is mostly all gone.




Going to have to start the grinding process. Need to order some stuff
1/4 thick neoprene rubber
3/4 plywood
Tyvek hooded coveralls w/boots
Full face mask
Few gallons of VE resin
regular a biaxial fiberglass cloth
Foam (what kind??)
Bunch of containers, brushes, have gloves

 

[Woodonglass]

Well, I'm NOT a BIG BOAT guy so I'll leave it to those of you that ARE!!! Like I said As long as the Tank is Coated well, Foaming it in should be fine. Corrosion can't get to the aluminum as long as the coating holds up. I've never had any issues with the POR-15. I'm gunna check out the Enecon epoxy coating. Sounds interesting. The 4lb density foam would be my choice as well. Your full face respirator is sized just like the Half Faced ones.

 

[alldodge]

Time to go to school here i have a older boat alum tank and was set on a Moeller replacement why alum tank....baffling?????

http://www.moellermarine.com/oem/fuel_tanks/fuel-tanks/

Baffles are real good to have with a big tank. All the sloshing around while running, turning and bouncing will throw a lot of weight around. Aluminum is what I have to use because part of my tank is exposed and the foam will stick to it, the foam won't stick very well to plastic.

My water tank is plastic and I had it custom made from a place in TX. They installed baffles and used a plastic weld process and was cheaper then aluminum.

So if your fuel tank is above the hull and air gets around it, why not plastic. But is it is like mine go aluminum

 

[alldodge]

Well, I'm NOT a BIG BOAT guy so I'll leave it to those of you that ARE!!! Like I said As long as the Tank is Coated well, Foaming it in should be fine. Corrosion can't get to the aluminum as long as the coating holds up. I've never had any issues with the POR-15. I'm gunna check out the Enecon epoxy coating. Sounds interesting. The 4lb density foam would be my choice as well. Your full face respirator is sized just like the Half Faced ones.

Cool thanks

Oh and the POR I was referring to was used on the inside of the tank to try to seal it. Looks like I misunderstood you were discussing the outside of the tank

 

[Woodonglass]

They make it for Both Inside and Outside Tank coating.

 

[Mikeopsycho]

Time to go to school here i have a older boat alum tank and was set on a Moeller replacement why alum tank....baffling?????

http://www.moellermarine.com/oem/fuel_tanks/fuel-tanks/

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but there are a couple reasons why I chose aluminum over poly tanks. First was the cost. Second, none of the plastic tanks I looked into had baffles in them to slow down the sloshing action of the contents. I had one baffle built into the middle of my 35 gallon water tank, and 2 baffles in my 100 gallon fuel tank. I also read somewhere that plastic tanks are permeable, so I'm thinking the tank coffin would have to be vented. No big deal, but I didn't like the idea of gas odors weeping through the tank material.

Hey AllDodge, you're making headway now, shopping for supplies counts as rebuilding time. If you're foaming in the tank it sounds like 4lb foam is the way to go, but I think 2lb foam is what most folks use for the rest of the below deck areas. I chose not to foam in my tank, but I gotta say the old tank was well over 30 years old before it started leaking, and it was bare aluminum foamed in, so I figure a properly painted tank foamed in place aughta last a long long time.

 

[Arawak]

IMO, Foamimg in tanks is advisable when the strength of the hull structure is relying on the tank being foamed in. I do not think AD's PC27 is relying too much on the foam & tank for strength . . . but you never know. Cruisers typically do not rely on the tank installation for strength, whereas sport boats, cuddy cabins and go-fast boats are more apt to rely on a foamed-in tank for strength.

I'm pretty sure that both the USCG and the Transport Canada marine regulations prohibit the fuel tank being a structural element. Will have to see if I can dig that up.

 

[alldodge]

I'm pretty sure that both the USCG and the Transport Canada marine regulations prohibit the fuel tank being a structural element. Will have to see if I can dig that up.

The tank helps by filling the void, at least the way I see it. I have a large rectangular opening with only 3/4 plywood (other then the hull) to reduce twist. Put a tank in it and fill with foam, it will stiffen things up a bit. The hull is pretty stiff, adding other boxes helps

 

[Woodonglass]

Well, I looked up the USCG regs and they only require 2lb foam...

http://www.uscgboating.org/regulatio...rds_partc.aspx

And I found the Structural info here...
http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/AssetManager/ABYC.1002.01.pdf
Starting on page 66

 

[alldodge]

I'd use either 2 or 4lb, guess the decision would be which one adheres to paint and fiberglass better. Maybe another thing would be which one works better in a pouring application

 

[tpenfield]

I'd go with the 4 or even the 6 lb foam. 4 lb density is generally used for fuel tanks because of the weight and the 2 lb is used for flotation.

 

[alldodge]

Which adheres better

 

[tpenfield]

Also, looking ahead . . . during the 6-8 weeks to get the fuel tank, you will be doing the structural repairs (right?) Just wondering if the clearance is enough to install the bulkhead prior to the tank going in :noidea: Hopefully so, as that would give you good access for tabbing to the hull, etc.

 

[Arawak]

The link that Wood provided (part c) specifies the weight of of foam, but there's also this part j which says

FEDERAL LAW
183.550 - Fuel tanks: Installation
(f) Cellular plastic must not be the sole support for a metallic fuel tank.

Non-ferrous metallic fuel tanks may be foamed-in-place if the installation provides support for the fuel tank that is independent of the cellular plastic (foam) (see 183.512(c)). Supports for metallic fuel tanks must be in accordance with 183.550(e). The installation must comply with all applicable sections of 183.550, particularly sections (b), (c) and (d). It is recognized that the foam, upon curing, will assume some of the support for the tank. This is acceptable