Force 125 leaks down

[Andy3]

Bought a "new" boat today. 1988 Bayliner Cobra with a Force 125. Only problems the previous owner was aware of was a trailer light not working and the fact that the tilt/trim motor could bring the engine up, but it would slowly start going down on its own. Can someone give me some tips on what I need to do?

 

[zopperman]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

is that in the water or on land? It might not have power trim. I had a merc 50 HP that onyl had a power tilt for trailering but wasn't meant to be used as a trim in the water.

Could also be a bad seal or something? IDK much about tilt/trim.. take this FWIW...

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

The power trim pump.If there is no oil leaking.The hydrolic part needs to be rebuilt.They sell new but the old can be rebuilt.
Does it have red oil(trans fluid/power steering fluid)) or regular oil? You might try loosing the front line and replacing the red oil with 20w.Might help,can't hurt.
RRITT on this site rebuilds them.About $100

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

Bought a "new" boat today. 1988 Bayliner Cobra with a Force 125. Only problems the previous owner was aware of was a trailer light not working and the fact that the tilt/trim motor could bring the engine up, but it would slowly start going down on its own. Can someone give me some tips on what I need to do?

The power trim pump.If there is no oil leaking.The hydrolic part needs to be rebuilt.They sell new but the old can be rebuilt.
Does it have red oil(trans fluid/power steering fluid)) or regular oil? You might try loosing the front line and replacing the red oil with 20w.Might help,can't hurt.
RRITT on this site rebuilds them.About $100

in general -
the rams last about 30 years, the valve body lasts about 20 years, and the motors last about same as valve body.

There are actually two rams and a shock damper up under the engine but it is often called a three ram system. When a ram fails the system will drop like a stone. Whenever somebody uses the word "drift" it is almost always a pump problem. The rams need to be rebuilt when the top seals around tilt piston shaft are starting to harden or crack. Letting water inside can ruin your tilt ram. For freshwater boats the rams can rebuilt while the system is still mounted to engine.

on the right side of engine (standing behind boat) is an electric pump with four oil tubes. The pump consists of a motor and a valve body. You should not take the valve body off the motor while mounted to boat. Valve body rebuilding is not user friendly and requires meticulous attention to detail. There are some articles in forums about using lawnmower carb kits to find the small seals that should give good results but I would advise against the project. The motors will last forever if you keep out water. I have rebuilt hundreds of motors but I have only seen worn out brushes a few times. It is always rust. The rust attacks the bearings, the brushes, the breaker, the armature, the magnets, and even the glue that holds everything together. The very instant you see the slightest trace of rust residue you should rebuild your trim motor. It will cost you $25 to put in new seals and the motor will last another 10-20 years. Seals are available from mercury.

 

[Andy3]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

ok, I see the two rams on the sides, and the stubby one in the middle under the motor. I also see the canister looking part to the right side of the engine with the hydraulic lines. Is this part both the motor and hydraulics? Not sure what I should try first. Is their a manual, or what would be the first step in trying to remedy this problem? The person I bought it from said that he's had the bought for 12 years or so and that it has always done this. Out of the water, on the trailer, if motor is tilted all the way up, it immediately begins to lower itself. A person may or may not have enough time to launch his boat before the engine has lowered itself too low to launch. He and his wife have bypassed the problem by her sitting in the boat during launch and keeping the engine titlted up by manning the tilt switch.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

The person I bought it from said that he's had the bought for 12 years or so and that it has always done this. Out of the water, on the trailer, if motor is tilted all the way up, it immediately begins to lower itself. A person may or may not have enough time to launch his boat before the engine has lowered itself too low to launch. He and his wife have bypassed the problem by her sitting in the boat during launch and keeping the engine titlted up by manning the tilt switch.

sounds like a valve body. the thing mounted onto bottom of canister (electric trim motor). It has four SS brake lines going into it. When removing vlave body take the entire canister thing off. Never try to attach or remove a valve body while electric motor is still mounted on transom clamps. About half the time you will ruin the threads.

 

[Andy3]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

ok, so I remove the lines from the valve body, and then remove the valve body and motor together from the transom. When I take those screws out, are there going to be springs and seals going everywhere? Is the valve body something that can be fixed, or should I replace? And how much is one of those?

 

[seaman campbell]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

I just replaced mine. Some say the check valve is normally bad in the valave body, but rather than all the headache trying to get it out I found a guy that has them in stock and ordered one. Once the valve body was replaced I also ended up replacing all of the o-rings in the trim pump, then I went ahead and did the tilt cylinder. You can check outhttp://maxrules.com/fixforcetrim.html for the valve body and I found all the o-rings at http://www.crowleymarine.com/parts.cfm The valve body is not cheap, but it has done an exceptional job. Have had the new one installed for about 3 years now with no problems.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

Send me a PM with email and I can send you instruction manual.

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

I just replaced mine. Some say the check valve is normally bad in the valave body, but rather than all the headache trying to get it out I found a guy that has them in stock and ordered one. Once the valve body was replaced I also ended up replacing all of the o-rings in the trim pump, then I went ahead and did the tilt cylinder. You can check outhttp://maxrules.com/fixforcetrim.html for the valve body and I found all the o-rings at http://www.crowleymarine.com/parts.cfm The valve body is not cheap, but it has done an exceptional job. Have had the new one installed for about 3 years now with no problems.

nice link. that is the API valve body. I didn't know they still made them. That is a nicely made product that will take the loads created from large engines. If you have a big engine and you don't want troubles then they are worth the extra $$. IMO, the chinese ones should not really be used over 70HP but can be pushed up to 85-90HP as long as you aren't expecting miracles. On 120-150HP I don't think they have a prayer to last more than a season or two. The metal is too soft for the hydraulic backpressure pushing against the valves at WOT.

the most important seals in rams are the ones that keep water out. They also keep oil in, but a few drps of oil in the lake costs a lot less to fix than a few drops of water in your hydraulics. So make sure to replace the rod wipers.

 

[Andy3]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

I'm sure I'll probably end up sending it in to be rebuilt, but I've rebuilt carbs before, and I would enjoy a crack at fixing this thing. So, the parts needed are in B&S carb kits? Which ones?

 

[Andy3]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

These valve bodies are being rebuilt with something, right? Anybody?

 

[maverick974]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

Get hold of rritt. I just got a pump and motor from him. He does a great job at a fantastic price compared to the others out there. Very helpful and knowledgable guy.

 

[Andy3]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

Dude, he's participating in this thread, and I didn't think we were supposed to send PMs unless invited to. RRITT, am I asking for trouble by trying to work on this thing. I've rebuilt one and two barrel automotive carbs, but not 4-barrel. Is this valve body more tedious than that?

 

[seaman campbell]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

Andy read these:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=154788 first post

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=148195 posts 8,9,&13

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=418734 first few posts

Note in the first link that RRitt said "Taking the valve body apart is usually a mistake."

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

Dude, he's participating in this thread, and I didn't think we were supposed to send PMs unless invited to. RRITT, am I asking for trouble by trying to work on this thing. I've rebuilt one and two barrel automotive carbs, but not 4-barrel. Is this valve body more tedious than that?

start off from the mentality that you are repairing a watch. That a spring could pop out from anywhere and that everything must fit perfectly or it will not keep time properly and be worth less. work on a clean surface and never force anything.

IF you do that, then the worst that can happen ... is that somebody else can still put humpty dumpty back together again.

 

[seaman campbell]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

somebody else can still put humpty dumpty back together again.

personally I don't like to work on something after someone else has tried and failed, but you are right, it can be put back together. If I remember correctly when I did mine, I already had the new valve body and decided to take the old one apart just to see. I was glad I already had a replacement, the spring and ball just came springing out once i opened it up.

 

[Andy3]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

ok, I give. I'm just a born tinkerer, and can't resist sometimes. RRITT, I'm assuming that's your ad on ebay? Thinking I'll wait until I winterize, then just send it to you. I have a transom saver supporting the engine. Is that the proper way, or does the engine need to be all the way down before I start removing lines?

 

[RRitt]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

go ahead and tinker. If you don't do anything that bends, cracks, or scars the aluminum parts then you won't do any damage. Just take it apart it in something like a cat litter tray so that nothing bounces off and leaves you wondering what it was. and try to take pieces apart as slow as you can so that you'll get a good look before anything pops out. There are five or six main variations and chances are not good that yours will exactly match whatever photos you may find online.

oh, if you have retaining rings be careful not to damage them. They are a buck each even at wholesale. You probably don't need $98 worth of extra SS retaining clips. They are perfectly reusable if you take care not to damage or lose them. people run into trouble more from not cleaning out the groove than from having a bad retaining clip.

so anyway - tinker all you want. as long as you don't damage the aluminum then it's fixable.

 

[Andy3]

Re: Force 125 leaks down

so anyway - tinker all you want. as long as you don't damage the aluminum then it's fixable.

Yee Haw!! Where's my hammer!?