Domestic Spying

heycods

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Nov 11, 2005
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3,941
Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> Anyone heard our friend Rush address his line on this domestic spying. As he fights invasion of his drug addictions, I would think he must oppose the governments domestic program.
WE all make enemys, Guess he made some big ones.
 

Limited-Time

Vice Admiral
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Mar 30, 2005
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5,820
Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by BoatBuoy:<br /> Limited-Time,<br /> If you continue to look backward rather than forward, you'll most certainly stumble.
BoatBouy,<br />Those that do not study history, are doomed to repeat it. The true definition of crazy is to do the same thing over and over and expect a different out come. We must be smarter and swifter than our adversaries in order to defeat them.
 

heycods

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Nov 11, 2005
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3,941
Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> Righties deserve credit for that.
If leftys were the powerful enemys why would rightys spy? not logical as spock would say.
 

POINTER94

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Re: Domestic Spying

I still haven't heard the name of one american citizen whose rights have been violated. All these rights being violated, exactly who.
 

18rabbit

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Nov 14, 2003
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3,202
Re: Domestic Spying

Let’s see…<br /><br />- Undeclared war with an enemy that isn’t defined, just described.<br /><br />- Invaded a country over WMDs that, well, weren’t really there.<br /><br />- Serious legal problems with illegal detention of people in Guantanamo Bay.<br /><br />- Serious legal problems with setting up illegal prisons in European countries.<br /><br />- A US citizen was arrested and shipped to Cuba for planning a dirty bomb. After being held for 2 years the courts told Shrub to charge him, they did, with attempting to assassinate the pres. What happened to the dirty bomb charge?<br /><br />- Illegal wire taps.<br /><br />- Illegal spyware planted on peoples computers,<br /><br />- Illegally transferring data obtained from that spyware to various federal agencies.<br /><br />- A certain Mr. Osama Bin Laden is still unaccounted for.<br /><br />You know where all of this is going, right?!? As it stands right now, you can practice saying “President Kerry” because that’s the way it’s going to play out in 2008 if the Repubs don’t get their act together. We’ve arrived at a place where the Demos don’t even have to get their act together; all they need to do is shut up and sit down. The Repubs are doing a fine job at giving up control of Wash DC in 2008 all on their own.
 

18rabbit

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3,202
Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by POINTER94:<br /> I still haven't heard the name of one american citizen whose rights have been violated. All these rights being violated, exactly who.
Jose Padilla.<br /><br />He's a US citizen arrested for conspiring to plant a dirty bomb, or so we were told. He was arrested in the US and sent to Guantanamo Bay. Held for two years, never allowed to meet privately with his attorney. The Supreme Court said either charge him or let him go, so he was charged with attempting to assassinate the president. Wow! Where did that come from?!? And no charge of a dirty bomb. Ok, so now it’s attempting to assassinate the pres… Padilla needs an arraignment, and a bail hearing. I don’t think that has happened, yet.<br /><br />Padilla is/was a very high profile case. We were assured over and over Jose Padilla was a terrorist that was going to plant a dirty bomb and they could prove it when called to do so. Who says so? The same folks that assured us Richard Jewell, the guy arrested for planting the bomb in Atlanta during the Olympics, was the bomber. Jewell sued the gvt, and collected, when it was proven he did NOT plant the bomb. Remember the FBI assuring us over and over Jewell was the bomber, they could prove it. Turns out Eric Rudolph planted that bomb.<br /><br />There is a reason why we have the checks and balances in place that we do. It is incredibly stupid to allow any variance from those checks and balances. I’m starting to think maybe we are just as stupid to take anyone’s word for what is going on regarding nat’l security issues.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Oct 10, 2004
Messages
1,235
Re: Domestic Spying

For everyone that keeps bring up "rights", please tell me where, in the constitution or any of it's amendments, that it states a court is needed DURRING WARTIME for the president or the defense department to eavesdrop on conversations ( please don't use the tired old "unlawful search and seizure argument)? <br />In the war powers act, where does it say that a judge is needed or that communication monitoring must cease immediately if one party is in the U.S. ?<br />Times have changed, we are no-longer dealing with a recognized, state-sponsored enemy that wears uniforms. We are dealing with cowards that hide amognst women and children and try to fly "below the radar". That does not make them any less deadly ( think of 911). We have been listening in on communications of our enemies for decades. The difference is that these days, just a few people that may even be here in the US, can cause serious damage. They no longer need a 2000 watt transmitter or need an operator to place (what once was a rare) over seas call, they can do it from a pre-paid cell phone. Our enemies no longer need to smuggle a tractor trailer full of explosives to do damage to us, they can do it with a suitcase. <br />Cry all you want about how the government hasn't done everything the 911 commision asked for,just don't object to a well founded intelligence gathering technique. Do you really think Atta and his gang from 911 didn't make a few cell calls to each other first ?<br />Finally, if you happen to be get arrested for talking to your brother-in-law, on your cell phone, about cheating on your taxes, then post that....we'll be in agreement that government spying has gone too far. If you know of a person that got arrested for any domestic crime that came from an "illegal" wiretap, let us all know....that would be a first.
 

dogsdad

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Aug 8, 2003
Messages
1,293
Re: Domestic Spying

It's really all very simple, waterone. If there's a republican in the White House, anything the executive branch does is wrong. If there's a democtratic socialist in the White House, everything the executive branch does is right.<br /><br />The leftists, marxists, and plain anti-American buttheads don't give a rat's a** about the Constitution, they just want power. And if you or I have to have our a$$e$ blown off by some ragheadist in order for that to happen, so what!<br /><br />It must suck to be a democrat these days when people are so much better informed.<br /><br /><br />*glub, glub*
 

POINTER94

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Oct 12, 2003
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Re: Domestic Spying

18R,<br /><br />I was actually referring to the illegal wiretaps. But Padilla hasn't been proven innocent. And he has been indicted. He was indicted for providing - and conspiring to provide - material support to terrorists, and conspiring to murder individuals who are overseas. "Should he be alleigned with a foreign terrorist group, I don't see where he should be afforded any rights above those of any other terrorist. He relinquished those "rights" when he took up arms against the United States. Similiar to the rights of released felons to own guns or vote are lost.<br /><br />Nobody is more skeptical of the government than I, but this guy is a poor example. No matter how you or I feel about this administration, there will be another, and ever expanding intrusions may find no limitations with the next group. But it is truely a balancing act pitting the value of time vs. liberal judges hamstringing the investigative agencies of this country to protect us. And what exactly does a retroactive warrant afford ones privacy? I never could understand how a politically appointed judge can approve or disapprove a warrant based on his OPINIONS. But there is much to be concerned about. Consider the fact that the Democrats consider Ginsburg a mainstream jurist and Alito some kind of right wing nut. Clinton piled the courts with tons of these loons. I would feel much better with special judges appointed based on their understanding of survielence and terrorism and their complete lack of political/social motivation. Not what the merit badge they will get from the ACLU for blocking legitimate investigations.<br /><br />I have a real quandry with which rights to hold sacred and which ones to make flexible to deal with this unique and covert enemy. I have no good answers or opinions other than playing politics with the war is a sure fire way to ensure civilian deaths while the people most responsible scream how clean their hands are.<br /><br /><br /> http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/2005/ag_speech_051122.html
 

waterone1@aol.com

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
1,235
Re: Domestic Spying

Gee, some of the posts got me off topic. As for the Rush thing...... there is no comparison between what he has been investigated for and national security. IF, by some stretch of the imagination, his cell calls, or emails were intercepted, because someone thought he had some ties to a third-world country and all they found was calls looking for drugs....and the government used this as evidence...I WOULD BE THE FIRST TO SAY THIS IS WRONG ! As far as I know, it has been like two years of investigating and they still do not have him on anything. This , again has nothing to do with national security or protecting american citizens from death, nor has any military been put in harms way because of Rush.<br />In my hometown, the police used their helicopter to fly over houses at night and with an infra-red heat sensor, looked for houses with excessive heat (they thought this indicated people growing POT in their attic). The courts said..NO and they had to stop. In my opinion, trying to get Rush's privilaged medical records is about the same thing.
 

Link

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 13, 2003
Messages
4,221
Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by waterone1:<br /> For everyone that keeps bring up "rights", please tell me where, in the constitution or any of it's amendments, that it states a court is needed DURRING WARTIME for the president or the defense department to eavesdrop on conversations ( please don't use the tired old "unlawful search and seizure argument)? <br />In the war powers act, where does it say that a judge is needed or that communication monitoring must cease immediately if one party is in the U.S. ?<br />Times have changed, we are no-longer dealing with a recognized, state-sponsored enemy that wears uniforms. We are dealing with cowards that hide amognst women and children and try to fly "below the radar". That does not make them any less deadly ( think of 911). We have been listening in on communications of our enemies for decades. The difference is that these days, just a few people that may even be here in the US, can cause serious damage. They no longer need a 2000 watt transmitter or need an operator to place (what once was a rare) over seas call, they can do it from a pre-paid cell phone. Our enemies no longer need to smuggle a tractor trailer full of explosives to do damage to us, they can do it with a suitcase. <br />Cry all you want about how the government hasn't done everything the 911 commision asked for,just don't object to a well founded intelligence gathering technique. Do you really think Atta and his gang from 911 didn't make a few cell calls to each other first ?<br />Finally, if you happen to be get arrested for talking to your brother-in-law, on your cell phone, about cheating on your taxes, then post that....we'll be in agreement that government spying has gone too far. If you know of a person that got arrested for any domestic crime that came from an "illegal" wiretap, let us all know....that would be a first.
Well said. There is nothing new going on here. Just hype for a political agenda. Nuff said.
 

12Footer

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Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by heycods:<br /> Hes stuck in a rut. Gee be like me Call a troll a troll. Frog my dog can whip your rabid cat. If he cant he will trick him into going gator fishing with him for the bait.<br />never mind I found that puppy :D :D :D
In case anyone was waiting for my opinion, here ya go. "Dittoes", Heycods.
 

tomatolord

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
548
Re: Domestic Spying

Actually the previous administration did the exact same thing as bush....his name was...<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />..<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />..<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />.<br />Aldridge Ames - the CIA turncoat - they wire tapped him without going to FISA or any other court<br />He then pled guilty and in the outcry over his case everyone overlooked the fact that ALL of the initial info was gathered by "illegal" wire taps.<br />.<br />.<br />Personally - I think Bush is doing the right thing - not allowing the bad guys to use our own laws against us.<br /><br />In the long run all of these records will be made public so they had better make sure they are doing the right thing.<br /><br />Will they make mistakes - yes they will - we all do.<br /><br />Tomatolord
 

Tyme2fish

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Joined
Feb 19, 2002
Messages
2,481
Re: Domestic Spying

All this reminds me of the paranoid dyslexic. He allows thought he was following someone. :D
 

oddjob

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Jun 19, 2002
Messages
2,723
Re: Domestic Spying

What is your question exactly TXS?
Anyone heard our friend Rush address his line on this domestic spying. As he fights invasion of his drug addictions, I would think he must oppose the governments domestic program. <br />
OK, to answer your question....yes I believe I have heard him address it. <br />
Now we have given up search and seizure limits under our constitution, anyone for giving up our weapons??? Just another constitutional right we have. Heck if the terrorist had no guns we could kick their butts.<br /><br />This is one of those ideals where I become a strong member of the Reich wing. Do not mess with my guns..
Wrong again JB, the spying includes domestic communications not just international. <br />
rolmops, You have my apology and your reasoning is sound, I shall hereafter refrain from the use of the term in question. That is not done out of threat of censureship but because it does offend you as an individual; and that, I do respect. Again my heartfelt apologies and promise.
Note how the administration has avoided the issue of consitutional wrong by launching an investigation into who released the information. Hey, that guy should be protected by the "Whistle Blower Act" or something. <br /><br />Either party, I am not big on giving up my Constitutional rights. Since when does one get to change the Constitution they were elected under at will. This is wrong whether it is Bush, Clinton, all the way back to the George Washington and anyone who disagrees is would have disagreed with our independence from Britain back in 1776 or thereabout. <br />
The original thread was directed toward the leader of the right Rush Limburger thinks about gathering personal information by the government, anyone wonder why no one addressed that issue although we are at the point of attacking Al Gore.<br /><br /> Er ....cause you brought him ( Algore) up and noone else but me was willing to bite. I would like to see one reply from the one of the folks that support his ideals
Here's two.<br /><br /> 1. They already seized Rush's medical records ( unlawfully) and reviewed it. 2. No charges have been filed.
What about Rush. <br />
No protectors of the voice of this great country Rush. <br />
Righties deserve credit for that. <br />
Well, Rush is right again. The more the new liberal base talks outloud the better. Looks like hes under TXS's skin pretty deep. It must pain you very much that after two years he still has not been charged and his radio show rages (boy!, I say RAGES! ..on...hehe :D )
 

18rabbit

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Joined
Nov 14, 2003
Messages
3,202
Re: Domestic Spying

Originally posted by waterone1:<br /> For everyone that keeps bring up "rights", please tell me where, in the constitution or any of it's amendments, that it states a court is needed DURRING WARTIME for the president or the defense department to eavesdrop on conversations ( please don't use the tired old "unlawful search and seizure argument)? <br />In the war powers act, ...
I can show where it says in the constitution that congress must ‘declare war’ before we are at war. Will that work?<br /><br />
Finally, if you happen to be get arrested for talking to your brother-in-law, on your cell phone, about cheating on your taxes, then post that....we'll be in agreement that government spying has gone too far. If you know of a person that got arrested for any domestic crime that came from an "illegal" wiretap, let us all know....that would be a first.
Revisit what I wrote yesterday morning about "the slippery slope", half way up this thread.
 
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