BRP reveals a new style of outboard, Rotax powered, horizontal crankshaft....

[racerone]

There are those people who can afford this stuff.-----Electronics on these things will alarm and say.-------" 1 mile of range left and you are 3/4 of a mile from the dock"----New stuff sells.

 

[Lou C]

Let’s really hope that whoever installs the fast chargers on those docks knows what they are doing….we know what happens when they don’t….
For the majority of boaters on Long Island where I am who are on moorings or on docks without shore power it WILL NOT work….solar? Ok to keep batteries charged that’s about it. Like I said this is all being pushed by dreamers who insist that it “must” be so.
If that’s the case let’s wait till members of congress travel solely by electric train domestically. No carbon spewing jets for politicians. International travel? Well then they can go only by electric/clean diesel ship. Again no horrible carbon spewing jets for Joe, Kamala, Nancy et al.
Walk the walk before forcing it on us.

 

[chris.olson]

Again no horrible carbon spewing jets for Joe, Kamala, Nancy et al.
Walk the walk before forcing it on us.

We all know that's not gonna work, and it's not how it works.

I think BRP will sell some of these on pontoons. I don't think the Alumacraft with a big flat rack on the back is going to be all that popular. It has several disadvantages as compared to an I/O.

There has been several things that various companies have brought to market that ended up being a total flop, I suspect this underboard concept will be one of those. Waiting three years for Evinrude to come back, and then all we get is an Evinrude G2 powerhead bolted on the back of two right-angle gearcases, and rebranded as Rotax with Stealth Technology, is not going over well with boating industry reviewers. Some are wondering if it's actually a joke and it will probably last until their 15-screw watertight cowling is found to not actually be water tight, and then BRP blames it on owners not bring it in for the required annual $500 inspection to replace the gasket.

One of the worst things to ever happen to Alumacraft Boats and Evinrude outboards was to be acquired by BRP. BRP does not have a good track record on customer service.

 

[redneck joe]

i bought an L Drive. Will NEVER buy new tech again. This is BRP not Force but still....


When i read up on the L drive it claimed to have overcome the issues fomr the same design in the 60's(?). It did not.

 

[JimS123]

I looked at the info on these engines . . . pretty wild, sitting in the water like that

What the deal with Rotax Engines? different 'tech' or physics, or what? Sure looks about the same as other engines

The Rotax engines on SeaDoo PWCs are 4-stroke and they are bulletproof. Can't understand why they stuck with 2-stroke now.

 

[JimS123]

Gee, why not bolt on a SeaDrive and call it a night? Wait, those failed, didn't they?

Some people want an I/O. Some want an OB. The SeaDrive was an attempt to satisfy both camps. It was a novel idea that simply didn't catch on. Partly because few boat manufacturers offered them.

 

[chris.olson]

The Rotax engines on SeaDoo PWCs are 4-stroke and they are bulletproof. Can't understand why they stuck with 2-stroke now.

I suspect because the Evinrude G2 powerhead they are using is actually a very good engine. It is cleaner on emissions than any four-stroke, quieter, has more torque and gets better fuel economy than a four-stroke. And it is maintenance-free. Don't have to change oil in it, has push-button winterization.

What boating industry reviewers can't figure out is why they took this engine, rebranded it as Rotax (when what their customer base wanted was Evinrude brand), and put it in a handicapped one-off configuration that is destined for failure.

 

[Chris1956]

I think the 2 cycle direct injection engine are doomed. They do not have any real weight or simplicity advantage over 4 cycle engines, and most do not like the smoke. I have not seen any new ones in a while, and I live in a waterfront community.

Does any major OEM still offer 2 cycle DI motors? Why would BRP go down this path?

 

[harringtondav]

I think the 2 cycle direct injection engine are doomed. They do not have any real weight or simplicity advantage over 4 cycle engines, and most do not like the smoke. I have not seen any new ones in a while, and I live in a waterfront community.

Does any major OEM still offer 2 cycle DI motors? Why would BRP go down this path?

The promise of Ficht DI was lower emissions with no unburned air/fuel mixture going out the exhaust during the scavenge stroke, and better fuel economy from the more discrete injection. I don't know the fatal flaws with Ficht, but I reckon advances in ECU technology have fixed these.
I'm a little surprised to see an Evinrude being used since BRP killed that O/B brand, and indicated Mercury was to be their main source for power units moving forward.

 

[Chris1956]

Certainly the promise of 2 cycle DI motors was low emissions, and 4 cycle outboard technology was unusual and therefore unproven. I think this created a market for 2 cycle DI outboard motors.

At this point, with 4 cycle OB motors having been around for a decade plus, those disadvantages have largely disappeared. Will we see large 4 cycle OBs that are 30 years old, as we routinely do with carb 2 cycle OBs? In my mind the jury is still out.

I do not see large 4 cycle motors older than 10 years, however, my sample size is my waterfront neighborhood.

I know of 2 guys that run 150 - 200HP 2 cycle DI OBs, and a few that run older carb 150HP 2 cycle OBs (like me). The rest have those 4 cycle Yammys from 150-300HP. One neighbor has twin 225 Tohatso 4 cycle motors, to replace his original Merc 225HP 4 cycle motors. The Mercs lasted 10 years, and he had no idea what was wrong with them so he replaced them for $40K.

It seems like Americans simply do not like 2 cycle engines. Everything that can go to 4 cycle or electric seems to go that way. Electric lawnmowers and chainsaws claim to out power gasoline versions.

Off topic for sure. Still a question why BRP is going with 2 cycle DI motors.

 

[chris.olson]

Off topic for sure. Still a question why BRP is going with 2 cycle DI motors.

Because they are targeting a market (pontoon boaters) who don't care if it's 2-stroke, 4-stroke or 9-stroke, and they don't know the difference. As long as runs when they turn the key, don't have to mess with it and when they get ready to put it away for the winter just press a button, it's what they want.

Judging by the looks of the Alumacraft, they bolted it on that just because they own that brand and figured they'd try it. But I don't suspect it will be real popular on the v-hull. Pontoons outsell v-hulls by 7:1 on the inland lake market, they sell at least 2,000 pontoons for every saltwater boat that is sold, and it is nicely integrated with the pontoon.

The Evinrude FICHT was a disaster. They fixed just about all the FICHT electronics problems with the E-TEC, although a few early ones did have injector problems. The G2's are pretty much bulletproof. So the engine is not the problem. It's whether or not they can sell the underboard concept.

 

[briangcc]

I could see it in another market....repowering I/O's. Ditch that archaic stringer drive with Ford ahead of it for a new compact motor and gain all that engine bay space for whatever.

IF, and it's a mighty big IF, it can stay around. Johnson/Evinrude/BRP has a nasty habit of disappearing. That's going to be the major knock on this whole launch is IF BRP has the will power to actually stick around and support the product.

 

[dingbat]

I think the 2 cycle direct injection engine are doomed. They do not have any real weight or simplicity advantage over 4 cycle engines, and most do not like the smoke.

Let’s not forget the cost of 2 stroke oil. Even at case prices I’m burning in excess of $60 a day in oil

 

[havoc_squad]

I'd rather buy an old used Mercury branded Force outboard than that BRP abomination of an engine.

BRP/Evinrude never got the hint of really learning from their mistakes. They just rebrand them or shifted the blame to the previous design that failed.

I can understand the desire to create a groundbreaking horizontally operating outboard 4 stroke powerhead in a compact package that functions reliably. The issue is their engine design ignores the primary reason for the form factor of an outboard motor, ease of installation and servicing.

It doesn't help BRP's reputation as a manufacturer either if they got lazy on business network security solutions and got crippled by ransomware causing them to not to be able to function. If they got shut down longer than a week I would guess that they must have not taken proper precautions to secure and backup their data and lost a lot of critical data.

Failure to properly secure company data can result in prolonged poor customer and dealer support as the tools needed to their jobs won't work and nothing gets actually done.

 

[Chris1956]

If I ran that motor on a 'toon here in Barnegat Bay, it would take a lot of saltwater pounding on the engine casing. Any idea if it would stand up to it?

My neighbor had the front, underside 1/8" alum panel on his 'toon, peeled back by the waves. He doesn't even go out when it is rough.

 

[KJM]

Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I like my engine above the waterline and where I can see it. I would constantly be so worried about that thing getting flooded with water it would take all the fun out of it!

 

[racerone]

A manufacturer might say-------" wow , you bolt the drive on, you install the control box , install the electronics.----Push the button and go ".----No trained staff required perhaps.----Price advantage right there.

 

[jimmbo]

More like "Increased Margins"

 

[havoc_squad]

I haven't checked all forum responses to see if any of the "new" details was already mentioned, but TeamMarine service shop on YouTube was able to get a lot of BRP industry insiders who were kept anonymous to reveal the ugly details about the program.

Yes, it's as bad or worse than many expected.

Link is below:

Mod Edit: too much language that is not family friendly - "Team Talk" if you want to watch it.

 

[briangcc]

Interesting...as was his first vid on it. I see his points but I also see the potential.

Also would like to see an honest in-water review of the boat and motor comparing to a traditional outboard. Doubt we'll get anything close to that but hey...a guy can dream.