are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Bondo · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Well,......... I've read every scrap of info I've found....... And,... I Think it's a Brilliant Plan............ When it passes,... GW will be looked at in the same way as FDR, the man who started it all....... The Only response here that Surprizes Me is JB's........ I Also Think the Private Accounts are the BEST part of the whole thing...... You'll be allowed 10% of the money Now taken from you, to be invested into accounts of YOUR Choice...(Ayuh, that's $10.00 a week that Your Children will Inherit, instead of Poofed, crabbait) If you want Super Secure money,.. use Treasury Bills..... Feeling Frisky,... There'll be Riskier Higher return investment available.... It'll be about like the IRAs, Keoghs, etcs...... The Big Plus here is,.... The way it Is Now, That money you Give Away,... Unless you live to be 100,.... It's Gone..Vannished,.... POOFed........ With GW's plan,... If you save from the day it starts till the day You Die, at 64.........Your Heirs Get the Money..... It's Your Estate.... It's Still YOUR's......... And,... All you Liberals,..... Screaming about the 2 Trillion needed to develope the plan,....Too Much Money... Too Much Debt..... Well,.... I Hate to tell ya,.. But,..... If left as it is, or with "Minor" tweeking,.. Your Grandchildren, or Greatgrandchildren will be looking at 100s of Trillions in Debt........ If WE, Ayuh,.. I'm 1 of the many who are going to take the Biggest Hit,.. If We bite the bullet NOW,... There WON'T be a debt when your decendents grow up....... And,.. America will have become a SAVING society,... Instead of 90% of us being Up to our Eyeballs in Personal Debt.......... The Plan builds Personal Wealth,... rather than Government Debt....... As some of you have figured out,.. That "Trust Fund" has NO Money in it,... None... Personally,........ The Biggest Problem I have with this debate is,...... The Liberals are All To Quick to Shoot it Down...... But, Have Absolutely NO Plan to Do ANYTHING ............. Except to Pass the Burden on to our Heirs.........

SoulWinner · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

How about this, everyone who pays FICA tax has that money put into his or her person FICA account. That money would enter an interest bearing account that pays interest at the same rate as any savings account. At age 65 that account starts paying a percentage of it's contence each month to the person who payed into it. What about that? It sure beats paying an income tax that congress sqanders, plus paying a FICA tax that congess also squanders! Personally I think the congressmen that have been spending the FICA revenue shot drug out in the street and shot.

Laddies · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

As a Republican on SS I certainly hope GW's Social Security fix is better than the way he has fixed the rest of our economy---Bob

12Footer · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Originally posted by snapperbait: Don't care.. I'm planning on ssi not being there when i'm old and grey, if i live that long.. King george II, Queen hillary (your next commander in chief, don't say i did'nt warn ya's), and all the political suckeys and lackies to come, will be re-hashing this junk for years and years and only further complicating matters.. Nothing will ever be "fixed".....

I agree with your position. I voted for GWB, but after seeing conservatives shy-away from ANY confrontation on the lib's plan of appointee-obstruction, I'm certain there will be strong objections to any plan, accompanied by no standing-firm from those wanting to fix it.

12Footer · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

As for Hildebeast in 2008, not likely. We neocons hate her as much as the libs hate Bush....And that is a bunch.

JB · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

I don't buy your arguments, Bondo. Here is why: In 1997 I had investments of just over $500K. I saved most of that core money while earning under $30K/an. Capital growth made up the rest. When I retired I was told that if I continued to earn over $11K/an I would get no benefits and that if I earned anything at all my benefits would be reduced. That program disappeared in 1999. It needs to come back, but at a more reasonable income level. Two heart attacks and a perforated ulcer cost me just over $250K before I became eligible for Medicare. The market crash dropped my remaining investment account to under $100K, which earns me about $3K/an in dividends. That amount drops every time the market takes another dip and about $5K a year I have to take out to cover things that my SS benefits wont cover. I see nothing that the "private accounts" could do for the low income worker that 401K, IRA and other tax sheltered options can't do for the worker who exercises self discipline and lives on 90% of his income like I did for 50 years. The notion that (s)he can have his/her cake(have money saved/invested) and eat it too (live at the limit of income and credit combined) is just as naive now as it has always been. My plan, outlined above, would reduce FICA tax rates, guarantee solvency of the system and guarantee every worker would not retire into poverty. The problem with it is that it is too simple for lawyers and bureaucrats to understand. I agree that there need to be improved incentives for saving/investment and improved protection for those assets from impulsive withdrawals, but what the low income worker needs most is self discipline. Examples abound (mostly recent immigrants) of people starting with nothing except very low income jobs and putting themselves into the capitalist middle class in less than a generation. I could do several more paragraphs on how the helpless victim mentality needs to be cured, not perpetuated. But I wont. My soapbox is collapsing.

Bondo · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Well JB,........ I Think that, as usual,You & I are Much More In Agreement , than We Think Apart................. Unfortunately, At this point, You're Still Seeing Trees,..... It's Really a Forest,..... Look.........

I could do several more paragraphs on how the helpless victim mentality needs to be cured, not perpetuated . But I wont

PLEASE Do......... That's the Forest......... Feed a man a fish,+ he eats a meal...... Teach a man To fish,+ he can live well....... It Might take a generation,... maybe 2....... But, If people see that buck2.98@ week that is put into a Treasury Bond(Very Safe) growing,...... Maybe 1 or 2 of the people will reason that 10% of their income invested would be even Better........ Or, When Dad passes at 64, instead of a couple hundred in Death bennies,+ the rest going Poof,.. There's a Check for Many Thousands because Dad wasn't as much a Dummy as everybody thought....... I'm Sure there won't be any Dynasties formed with the proceeds,... But, Survivors Will, No Doubt, Be Better Off...... We live in a "Cash Flow" society,... How Much a Week will that cost me..... Put it on a Credit Card......... That's the Problem,...... The Only Question about Interest Rates is "How Much is it going to Cost me"..... Instead of What are you Paying...... 'Course,..... That's Also the Exact Same Problem that the current SS system has........Only it's the # of people it has to Pay, rather than interest going thru the roof........ In Your own case, Unfortunately, Health,+ Market Timing have dealt You a Nasty Blow..... The Current SS is helping you along... That's Great..... But,.... Given that it Can't be changed,... If Your History Had played out during a time when this new Proposal was the law of the land....... Atleast You'd have Your account,+ Maybe You'd have diversified and Some of Your investment wouldn't have taken the Dotcom Hit........... I Reread Your Plan,...... Ayuh,... I Like It...... Some of it's componets look like some of GWs,...It's a Start...... Moninahan Supposedly built the Perpetual Machine in 83,... It's Already Dying..... Bill Clinton proposed an overhaul,....there was Trouble...... GW has stood up,+ declared, It's Broken,....... Let's Fix It......... Well,........ Millions are being spent to say that This Plan Can't Work......... OK,... Both sides have agreed, at 1 point or another, that There IS a Problem....... Let's Do Something.............Dollars are a Wasting........

JB · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

You are right, Bondo. We do agree on more than we disagree.

crab bait · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

well,, if'n it's 10 % max.. IT'S A NO-BRAINER..!! what's congress waiting for.. i'd MUCH rather put 10 % of my $92.73 into a ( say ) T-bill account that mine ( an my desendents ) an know at least i know i'll get atleast a small check a month when i retire.. rather then a magical mystery tour.. an if'n anythin',, at least i ain't givin' the whole shootin' match to greedy SAMMY to squander..

demsvmejm · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

The truth of the matter is that the Republican party has hated the Social Security program since its inception. And this is little more that another attempt at bankrupting the program, to get rid of it. I do not believe any part of the proposed plan is for the benefit of Social Security. I tis however for the benefit of the Wall Street firms that are currently(at that time) in the favor of Washington. By the time you pay all of the fees, commissions, and loads imposed by these firms, that you are required to use, you will have to achieve phenomonal returns to break even. So you lose benefits, you pay Wall Street, and then receive reduced returns on top of it. No thanks. The current Republican plan for Social Security is a big rip-off, bigger than the SS "Trust" fund.

Bondo · Apr 30, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

OK David L. Moore,........... So You Agree there IS a Problem........... What would be a Better Plan to Fix It ????

PW2 · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Any plan would be better than Bush's proposed plan. I laid out one. You could simply increase/eliminate the ceiling... Or relax the immigration laws and get more people paying into the system. And Crab, how much of your car insurance do you get returned to you? Or your term life? or any other insurance plan... I am all for private self directed accounts. They are called 401k or IRA's and the like. This is an *insurance* plan. It is not a retirement fund.

BoatBuoy · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Seems to me it's more of a retirement annuity than an insurance plan. With an annuity, you may get back less than you paid in, or more, depending on how the actuaries calculate and how long you live.

Perfidiajoe · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

It seams strange to me that for the first time the gov't wants to fix something that's years down the road. I understand there is a need to start the process early, but that has never been the Gov't way. I for one, & being a Republican am some what suspicious. I miss the 1950 cut off date by 3 days, I've payed into SS since I was 14 years old. I always tried to pay my bills, save a little, act prudently in investing what little I could, not always w/ good results, buy a small house which they kill me on taxes on. Do without things I would like so I could put away for the day I retire, & for saving & doing without for all these years I get punnished, less benifits, I should have just squandered everything, & become a burdon on society, then I would need more! As for the car Ins. or other ins. analogies, I choose to Have a car or not, or buy other ins. policies, it's not mandated. I'm not a rich kid, I like my father before me am a tradesman, I inherated nothing, nor did I expect to. Maybe I missed something, but I don't like changing the rules of the race just when I can see the finish line! This will go on for a long time, as Gov't policy usually is "If you can't be part of the solution, there is a lot of money to be made prolonging the problem" IMHO, Joe

Perfidiajoe · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

And it should be Bush's SS plan, Not SSI Plan as SSI is a different thing, Joe

crab bait · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

all my working life.. i'd pritnear have a stroke on paydays.. with the govnmts an the unions deductions.. back then,, i'd say " boy, sure be nice if i could take some of this ssi money an put it in a real account ".. cause week after week an year after year for squat.. my other insurances ain't a 100 bucks a week combined..!! an that's not countin' the $223 bucks a week on fed tax..!! so let me, fed govnmt, take 10 % of my total ssi money an put it in an ssi-ira t bill account..

PW2 · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

And then you'd have to either separately fund or eliminate the disability portion of the benefit. I'm not suggesting that it is necessarily a good insurance plan--no self respecting insurance company uses their premiums collected to fund ongoing, and unrelated liabilities, while counting on future premiums to fund ongoing liabilities-- If any of these people are interested in fixing the problem, rather than playing some sort of shell game with it, then they would figure out what it is supposed to do, and figure out the best way to do it, and keep the premiums completely separate from general revenue and expenses.

Perfidiajoe · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Great, Let me take my 10% & invest it, what about the near 40 years worth of money I put in already? Give it all back & let me invest it! I had no say when they took it, this was they're plan. Sounds like what they're doing to my Vet. bennies. I seam to remember them calling for something like this 25 years ago, when I didn't have so much in the plan. I'm looking at the end of work in a few years, I don't have the blessing of time to recover from bad investments, & I don't have the wealth to take care of the ones who will suffer from bad investments. And what will we do with the ones who do lose, say too bad, or put them on welfare. Will we bail them out as we did with the savings & loan co? Maybe it isn't supposed to be a retirement plan, & I'm not so sure about that, but I believe it is meant to supplement what people have, if they could, put away for retirement IMHO, Joe

Bondo · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

Any plan would be better than Bush's proposed plan.

Unfortunately,................ That Right There, IS the Liberal's Plan......... No Plans....... No Proposals.... Nothing............ What I believe to be the Main Reason the Liberals Don't want the "Private Accounts" is,......... They won't be able to SPEND the PEOPLEs Money....... Just Exactly like GW's,+ for that matter, Reagan's Tax Cuts............. The Battle Cry was,... "No, Don't Cut Taxes,.... WE can Spend that money SomeWhere Else"........ Funny how the Party of Big Business wants to give the PEOPLE Their Money to KEEP........... Yet,... The Party of the People Insists on Taxing us into Bankruptcy.......... With,.. Or Without an Overhaul of the system,.... We're All going to see Less Benefits,.... And Higher Taxes....... That's a Given........ Ayuh,.... I Am 1 of the worst hit.....And,.. I'm not trying to save the furture of My children... Never had any...... But, I understand that It's Not going last the way it Is........ And,... The Longer we Wait, the More Expencive it'll be to Fix......... With the life I've led,+ the Blood Lines I was Dealt,.. I Know I'm not going to Get Back but maybe a Penny on the Dollar of what I've invested in the system.... That Still Doesn't mean there's No Problem,......... Let's Fix it Now,..... While it's Still Fixable.........

Perfidiajoe · May 1, 2005

Re: are ya's for bush's ssi plan

"Give the people their money", do you mean the money they have not put in yet. My money is the money, or was the money, I put in for nearly 40 years already! And as for the worst hit, I have paid Fed. State, & city tax, Not to mention sales tax, home owners tax, SS & Medicare or medicaid, whichever it is they take out for. I also never had any kids, & try to help my mother who is in her 80's & widowed for nearly 20 years, since my father passed. I'm not saying there is not a problem, or will be a problem, but for me, this does not seem to be the way. Reminds me of the notch years for SS bennies, people born in a certain 5 year era I believe 1918- 1923 get less than born before or after. There has got to be a different way to do this, & I think there will be a compromise, Half the boomers taking the full hit is no good for my money, but a sure way to drive people to the polls. IMHO, Joe

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