Any pilots that actually KNOW?

[four winns 214]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Would to agree with me at this point that there's plenty of people that KNOW where that plane is, but are remaining tight lipped about it?

You can't be serious.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Would to agree with me at this point that there's plenty of people that KNOW where that plane is, but are remaining tight lipped about it?

Yeah -- 239 unfortunate souls.

 

[joed]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

They have declared it lost but still have not found any evidence of where it crashed other than some blurry images on a satellite photo that have not been confirmed as aircraft parts.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

They have declared it lost but still have not found any evidence of where it crashed other than some blurry images on a satellite photo that have not been confirmed as aircraft parts.

And the bottom line is, they may NEVER find any conclusive evidence and may never find the plane.

 

[Splat]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Or it's at the bottom of the ocean "somewhere". There's not really any evidence either way. It's really sort of useless to speculate too.....

You can't be serious.

I'm quite serious. I believe the governments involved know much more than they are telling us, or the families involved. In my opinion it's the only logical explanation for the sheer ignorance of the reports that have come out so far. One day it's leaked that there's four hours of additional engine data, the next were told that's untrue. There's the reports of passengers cell phones still ringing (tho not connecting) and their social media accounts still being logged in, the next day were told that's not true. The ever changing flight data... The reports of 4 stolen passports (scary as hell btw) that were quickly dismissed as just people wanting to sneak into the country. The pilot attending a political rally just before the flight. I can keep going....

Theres too much crap, even for this social media fueled time, just being thrown at the wall to see what sticks. This whole thing has my Spidey sense tingling.

They know much more about what happened then they are telling us. Perhaps they feel they are protecting us, or in my opinion protecting themselves. My gut still says this thing was hijacked. Perhaps it's in a hangar somewhere, perhaps it was shot down, perhaps it was intentionally balled into the ocean.

There are multiple ways for pilots to signify they are having problems, all reliant on different systems, and none of these were activated.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Really....... What are they?

 

[southkogs]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Really....... What are they?

Crashin' into the ocean is a pretty good way to let others know the airplane broke, right?

Hey Splat - I know what you're sayin' about things being a little off kilter. I would agree, the way that the Malaysian PM handled half of the info-flow was pretty lame. At the same time, the newsies had a field day with the whole thing - they were making all kinds of oddball conclusions off of nothing.

I was of the mind that the possibility of the airplane having landed safely somewhere was a reality. If it had, I firmly believed there was only 2 reasons it may have happened. 1.) Mass defection - a reasonable number of the passengers were Chinese nationals, and in a (VERY Tom Clancy-esque) highly coordinated plot it's possible (though not likely) they tried to defect. 2.) More likely the aircraft would have been hijacked to be later used as a missile/bomb - the passengers would have been disposed of and the airplane hidden. There were a few well written technical suppositions that I read that made the possibility rather plausible (though exceptionally difficult).

But at the end of it - the only way that those things work is if there is ZERO evidence of wreckage. There is precedence for a pilot committing suicide by nosing the airplane in, and there is precedence for a complete incineration of an aircraft in a wreck. But, you almost always have a big smoking hole in the ground or some debris on the ocean. If there's the slightest evidence of wreckage, it's far more logical to work from the assumption of a crash.

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

I think the wreckage debris may have been found. 122 pieces of stuff found by satellite, but not yet confirmed. Best Flight 370 lead yet? Satellite spots possible debris field - CNN.com

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Even tho is very unfortunate, I hope it turns out to be true. That will give complete closure for the deceased families given that was the most likely scenario what happened to that flight......

 

[Splat]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

I hope they find wreckage so the families can have some closure. Terrible yes, but a accident would be the easiest to understand.

Pilots can change transponder codes on the fly. 7500 is a internationally recognized code for hijacking and will make a ATC screen light up like a Christmas tree. Likewise 7600 and 7700 can be used to signify radio failure, and emergency respectively. Repeatedly pushing ide on a transponder will surely raise many eyebrows, and is very discreet in the cockpit.

Also 3 quick clicks of the mic button will raise someones suspicion of a problem, plus your hand never even has to leave the yoke. This can be broadcasted on either your current frequency, or on a emergency unicom one. Some one will hear it. They may not know it's you, but they'll know someone has a problem. There's thousands of people outside of ATC that monitor these frequencies constantly. No one heard anything.

With the redundancy built into these planes, it's unlikely both the transponder And radio went out before someone could be alerted to a problem.

Pilots are trained, stabilize, assess, and notify in a emergency.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Well, I suppose I can speak to some of these......

Pilots can change transponder codes on the fly.

Yes. One can "Squawk Emergency" but only if you have the time to select the code in the transponder. The "Bad guys" (if they exist) also know this and will "slap" your "pp" if they're in the cockpit with you and they see you reach for the transponder panel.......it's not something you can do covertly unless the door is closed and locked.

Also 3 quick clicks of the mic button will raise someones suspicion of a problem,

There's always "clicks", buzzes, dead carriers etc on ATC frequencies. no one gives them much notice. If they were already switched to ARINC HF (if they were even using HF) , "clicking" the mic button does nothing detectable on the frequency.

With the redundancy built into these planes, it's unlikely both the transponder And radio went out before someone could be alerted to a problem.

Just about ALL airline aircraft that operate over water have (2) VHF radios (plus a third one dedicated to ACARS), 2 HF radios, and some like the 777 and other newer aircraft have Inmarsat and/or Irridium sat phones.

The #1 VHF radio is almost always powered by the emergency DC power source(battery) so even if you lose both engine driven generators AND any other power supply (APU, RAT, or hyd powered generator etc) is inop, you still would have the battery powering 1 VHF comm radio.

BUT if you were already over water and had already switched to HF, there'd be NO ONE to talk to (because the HF is AC powered) and also, if over water, the transponder is of no use unless there happens to be a NAVY ship or AWACS out there messing around.

If there had been a big electrical fire in the cockpit that wouldn't go out, and if the problem was on the emergency busses, it's possible that they might not have had power to the transponder or VHF #1. If it was getting worse, they might have had their hands full just flying the airplane and fighting the fire.

Pilots are trained, stabilize, assess, and notify in a emergency.

You have that right. We call it "AVIATE, NAVIGATE, and COMMUNICATE"

That means FIRST, Fly the airplane. The other stuff is secondary. Communicate is LAST. (for a reason)


It is VERY hard to asses what these guys did without knowing what was going on. The news media is BRIMMING with speculation! They are literally "making it up as they go" and they are basing their speculation on what the various govt agencies are telling them (which might also be filled with speculation)

So it's very hard to even guess what could have happened. It's pretty hard to hide a 777.

My guess is it's in the water, someplace......but that's only because it's outta gas and no one has seen it land on a runway. It's one or the other.

 

[southkogs]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

...It's pretty hard to hide a 777...

No kiddin'. One thing we talked about in my squadron was that IF someone had nabbed the plane, the extensive operation required to capture, navigate, fly, land, hide and then re-use a 777 would be a VERY high end operation. It would make 9/11 look small in comparison (in terms of organization & funding).

What I've also been surprised at is openly the talk of intelligence gathering has been. In my mind, there's at least 2 levels of intelligence gathering that can't have been mentioned (at least from the US side) for security reasons. That's pretty crazy considering all of what has been talked about.

 

[Splat]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Or it's at the bottom of the ocean "somewhere". There's not really any evidence either way. It's really sort of useless to speculate too.....

You can't be serious.

Well, I suppose I can speak to some of these......
Yes. One can "Squawk Emergency" but only if you have the time to select the code in the transponder. The "Bad guys" (if they exist) also know this and will "slap" your "pp" if they're in the cockpit with you and they see you reach for the transponder panel.......it's not something you can do covertly unless the door is closed and locked.

There's always "clicks", buzzes, dead carriers etc on ATC frequencies. no one gives them much notice. If they were already switched to ARINC HF (if they were even using HF) , "clicking" the mic button does nothing detectable on the frequency.

Just about ALL airline aircraft that operate over water have (2) VHF radios (plus a third one dedicated to ACARS), 2 HF radios, and some like the 777 and other newer aircraft have Inmarsat and/or Irridium sat phones.

The #1 VHF radio is almost always powered by the emergency DC power source(battery) so even if you lose both engine driven generators AND any other power supply (APU, RAT, or hyd powered generator etc) is inop, you still would have the battery powering 1 VHF comm radio.

BUT if you were already over water and had already switched to HF, there'd be NO ONE to talk to (because the HF is AC powered) and also, if over water, the transponder is of no use unless there happens to be a NAVY ship or AWACS out there messing around.

If there had been a big electrical fire in the cockpit that wouldn't go out, and if the problem was on the emergency busses, it's possible that they might not have had power to the transponder or VHF #1. If it was getting worse, they might have had their hands full just flying the airplane and fighting the fire.




You have that right. We call it "AVIATE, NAVIGATE, and COMMUNICATE"

That means FIRST, Fly the airplane. The other stuff is secondary. Communicate is LAST. (for a reason)


It is VERY hard to asses what these guys did without knowing what was going on. The news media is BRIMMING with speculation! They are literally "making it up as they go" and they are basing their speculation on what the various govt agencies are telling them (which might also be filled with speculation)

So it's very hard to even guess what could have happened. It's pretty hard to hide a 777.

My guess is it's in the water, someplace......but that's only because it's outta gas and no one has seen it land on a runway. It's one or the other.

I can't argue your assessment. And I hadnt thought of no carrier on HF.

Still if I were batteling a fire, and turning towards perceived safety, I'd be all over the radio while we worked the problem. I still think it's strange there was no mayday, nothing heard.

Like you said it's all speculation, that doesn't have to stop us from talking it out here.

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Still if I were batteling a fire, and turning towards perceived safety, I'd be all over the radio while we worked the problem. I still think it's strange there was no mayday, nothing heard.

Maybe the pilot brought it down...... Sounds like he may have had some issues..... That's why they need the black box to find out what really happened....

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

No kiddin'. One thing we talked about in my squadron was that IF someone had nabbed the plane, the extensive operation required to capture, navigate, fly, land, hide and then re-use a 777 would be a VERY high end operation. It would make 9/11 look small in comparison (in terms of organization & funding).

What I've also been surprised at is openly the talk of intelligence gathering has been. In my mind, there's at least 2 levels of intelligence gathering that can't have been mentioned (at least from the US side) for security reasons. That's pretty crazy considering all of what has been talked about.

The other night watching my primary news source, The Daily Show with Jon Stewart :lol:, He talked about some group nabbing the plane for a nefarious operation. He did make a very good point though, it would be cheaper to buy a 777 than spend all the dough to carry this out. Probably about true.

I won't speculate on itel gathering because I don't know squat!

 

[southkogs]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

...He did make a very good point though, it would be cheaper to buy a 777 than spend all the dough to carry this out. Probably about true...

... or at least the math would be really close. If it were other airplanes besides the 777 or 787, I'd say for sure he's got a point. It's amazing how (relatively) cheap an older 747 can be purchased.

Only hitch is hiding who buys the airplane. Stealing it alleviates that problem.

A fun, but pretty academic discussion at this point.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

Still if I were battling a fire, and turning towards perceived safety, I'd be all over the radio while we worked the problem. I still think it's strange there was no mayday, nothing heard.

Well, yeah it would be somewhat "strange" unless it wasn't all that "bad" of a problem to start with but quickly became MUCH worse.

It's of course, "standard" on a NON-radar environment to turn 90 degrees to your original course (and descend) if there's a problem that requires either a "turn-back" or a rapid descent.......... (you want to get off the track so you don't descend into the guys (& gals!) below you on the same track.

Like you said it's all speculation, that doesn't have to stop us from talking it out here.

yeah. but some of this speculation can REALLY start sounding ridiculous.............

The media talks about ATC (here) being able to track, ADIZ(military radar) tracking where ATC radar cannot etc etc. But the reality of it is (in some other areas of th world, it's just NOT true)

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart :lol:, He talked about some group nabbing the plane for a nefarious operation. He did make a very good point though, it would be cheaper to buy a 777 than spend all the dough to carry this out. Probably about true.

Yeah. This guy is a comedian posing as a "news" guy......go figure. If nefarious people were going to do something like this, they'd buy used 727's, which can be had 'for a song', and don't really attract attention at all!!

GA_Boater

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

I think the wreckage debris may have been found. 122 pieces of stuff found by satellite, but not yet confirmed. Best Flight 370 lead yet? Satellite spots possible debris field - CNN.com​

Until they get "Hands-On" with this stuff, it's just floating "stuff' that could be completely unrelated to the flight.......

WIMUSKY

Maybe the pilot brought it down...... Sounds like he may have had some issues..... That's why they need the black box to find out what really happened....
​

Yes, and that's a distinct possibility that none of us ever like to consider.

I think it's less likely than the other scenarios but the "Black-box" (actually a special type of red) will be the determining factor!

 

[Splat]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

oh and now they were wrong about the speed and direction of the plane....... Geesh.:facepalm:

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Any pilots that actually KNOW?

oh and now they were wrong about the speed and direction of the plane....... Geesh.:facepalm:

It's an example of why some of us don't get too enamored with any one conclusion about this.

Even the info we might have thought was accurate, wasn't.